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#1 | ||
Fordluva
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
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Hey all, got a 200kw AU2 Xr8 with a stinky exhaust and drinking the fuel like there's no tomorrow. So ,air filter good plugs and leads O2 sensors new no faults using Forscan,runs well. When you get out of the car your clothes stink of exhaust especially if you walk past the back of the car while its running. So I disconnected the MAF sensor plug and it seems a whole lot better apart from the loss of low speed (1000 to1500rpm drivability),motor feels a bit perkier has a better exhaust note and has a bit of a pop on the overrun. Did a mileage test 80% highway 20% urban 11l per 100kms which seems to be in the ballpark. So can anyone tell me what the readings for the MAF should be on the Forscan dashboard at idle and under load.
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#2 | ||
Fordluva
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
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Forgot to mention I'm doing 2300RPM at 110Ks.What does the MAF sensor actually do if the motor can run pretty well with it disconnected?
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#3 | |||
AU DIE HARD
![]() ![]() Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Between 2nd and 5th gear
Posts: 5,073
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You checked your Cats for blockage ?
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........Age and treachery will ALWAYS overcome youth and skill....... CORTINA 250 2V POWER soon to be AUXR8 Windsor pwrd .............WINDSOR WARLORD WHO CARRIES THE CLEVO MAFIA AND BROKEN BOSSES... ......................... Quote:
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#4 | ||
Fordluva
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
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Well I had the exhaust open a few month's back and they were dark but not sooty, its not so rich that it wont run properly it just stinks and is thirsty
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#5 | ||
5.6L x 2 pilot
![]() ![]() Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Canbra
Posts: 14,994
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Your MAF voltage should run between 0 and 5V. At idle should be around 1V or less. The MAF measures accurately how much air is going into the engine, so that the ECU can determine exactly how much fuel to inject (adjust injector pulsewidth) to maintain the air fuel ratio as set in your tune.
The reason that it will run ok with it disconnected is because there is a MAF fail scenario configured in your tune. Whilst this scenario may have the car running ok, it is far from ideal and I would not recommend it as your engine could sound ok, but in reality could be running dangerously lean - and you would never know. My recommendation if you believe you have isolated it to the MAF, would be to go and get some MAF cleaner. If you MAF can be disassembled, pull it apart to give a good clean with MAF Cleaner. Interested to hear how you go with this as there seems to be a fair trend at the moment for dirty MAFs, including my own! I recently cleaned my MAF and corrected a poor idle issue. Cheers Stu
__________________
2002 AU II LTD 5.6L 342ci T3 Short, AFR165 heads, Comp XE270HR-12 Cam, Brembo 4/4s(355/330), T3 5 spokes, LC-1 wideband, Whiteline HD swaybars, TCE 3K Hi Stall, PWR Auto Trans Cooler, Koni shocks, King Low Springs, Hurricane headers, 100 cpsi cats, Twin 2.5" exhaust. Quarter Mile: 13.73 @ 105.86mph Runner Up NA/DA to BF Fairlane/LTD Geelong AFD 2024 ![]() 2002 XR8 pursuit 250 Custom twin 2.5" exhaust w Herrod modifed extractors, Tuned with Moates QH
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#6 | ||
Fordluva
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
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Is the Forscan accurate in its readings?
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#7 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NSW
Posts: 1,610
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check fuel pressure with fuel pressure gauge incase faulty pressure regulator or blocked return line
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#8 | ||
Fordluva
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
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Do the v8 regs block like the IL6 ones. It doesn't look like it can be cleaned.
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#9 | ||
5.6L x 2 pilot
![]() ![]() Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Canbra
Posts: 14,994
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Yes. What you see in Forscan is a mirror of what the ECU is seeing.
It may help, when I had a dirty MAF, the MAF voltages where bouncing around all over the place, whereas at a constant RPM, they should be fairly constant. Cheers Stu
__________________
2002 AU II LTD 5.6L 342ci T3 Short, AFR165 heads, Comp XE270HR-12 Cam, Brembo 4/4s(355/330), T3 5 spokes, LC-1 wideband, Whiteline HD swaybars, TCE 3K Hi Stall, PWR Auto Trans Cooler, Koni shocks, King Low Springs, Hurricane headers, 100 cpsi cats, Twin 2.5" exhaust. Quarter Mile: 13.73 @ 105.86mph Runner Up NA/DA to BF Fairlane/LTD Geelong AFD 2024 ![]() 2002 XR8 pursuit 250 Custom twin 2.5" exhaust w Herrod modifed extractors, Tuned with Moates QH
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#10 | ||
Fordluva
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
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Thanks Stu that gives me a few things to test tomorrow.
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#11 | ||
CNC fixer guy
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne Vic
Posts: 609
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Hi,
It sounds similar to what I am finding. Although I wouldnt say my clothes stink from it. With forscan, the maf v is constant at around 0.91v fully warmed up (90deg C) @ idle. I also found that it lopes slightly with the maf connected and seems to idle smoother with it disconnected, I also find that if it is warmed fully and in closed loop then switched off/on, the first 30 sec or so (open loop) seems to idle smoother until closed loop engages. I have cleaned the maf (down the guts of the airbox with maf cleaner) but it does not seem to make a difference. The filters, leads, plugs and bosch egos are new too. The new egos definately change state alot quicker than the old ntk's, but we did discover a fault with Forscan displaying the wrong ego voltages (too high). Too many parameters that can change the characteristics and not enough time to do it quickly, hehe. Cheers, Andrew.
__________________
Weekend Toy: S1 AU Fairlane V8 with LTD bits, Tickford 17" wheels, front and rear chin spoilers, series 2 front brake conversion with Super pro bushes, Pacemaker headers, rear muffler removed, Kings/Pedders lowered suspension, Koni adj rears, painted headlight bezels, HR 2300kg hitch, 2 stage shift kit, trans cooler, reverse cam and media player. Wife unit's : 2010 update FG XR6, reverse cam, HR 2300kg Hitch, German Maestro speakers, parcel shelf sub, trimmed mudflaps, batman stickers. |
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#12 | ||
5.6L x 2 pilot
![]() ![]() Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Canbra
Posts: 14,994
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Andrew, to successfully clean my MAF, it had to be pulled apart to get right to the sensor wires.
Stu
__________________
2002 AU II LTD 5.6L 342ci T3 Short, AFR165 heads, Comp XE270HR-12 Cam, Brembo 4/4s(355/330), T3 5 spokes, LC-1 wideband, Whiteline HD swaybars, TCE 3K Hi Stall, PWR Auto Trans Cooler, Koni shocks, King Low Springs, Hurricane headers, 100 cpsi cats, Twin 2.5" exhaust. Quarter Mile: 13.73 @ 105.86mph Runner Up NA/DA to BF Fairlane/LTD Geelong AFD 2024 ![]() 2002 XR8 pursuit 250 Custom twin 2.5" exhaust w Herrod modifed extractors, Tuned with Moates QH
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#13 | |||
CNC fixer guy
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne Vic
Posts: 609
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Quote:
Can the stock 175 maf be opened? I think it is rivitted together. I suppose if the voltage is constant and just under a volt at idle then the maf would seem ok though? Ta mate.
__________________
Weekend Toy: S1 AU Fairlane V8 with LTD bits, Tickford 17" wheels, front and rear chin spoilers, series 2 front brake conversion with Super pro bushes, Pacemaker headers, rear muffler removed, Kings/Pedders lowered suspension, Koni adj rears, painted headlight bezels, HR 2300kg hitch, 2 stage shift kit, trans cooler, reverse cam and media player. Wife unit's : 2010 update FG XR6, reverse cam, HR 2300kg Hitch, German Maestro speakers, parcel shelf sub, trimmed mudflaps, batman stickers. |
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#15 | ||
Fordluva
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
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How do I put up an image of my forscan page?
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#16 | |||
CNC fixer guy
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne Vic
Posts: 609
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Quote:
will have a closer look one day.
__________________
Weekend Toy: S1 AU Fairlane V8 with LTD bits, Tickford 17" wheels, front and rear chin spoilers, series 2 front brake conversion with Super pro bushes, Pacemaker headers, rear muffler removed, Kings/Pedders lowered suspension, Koni adj rears, painted headlight bezels, HR 2300kg hitch, 2 stage shift kit, trans cooler, reverse cam and media player. Wife unit's : 2010 update FG XR6, reverse cam, HR 2300kg Hitch, German Maestro speakers, parcel shelf sub, trimmed mudflaps, batman stickers. |
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#17 | ||
CNC fixer guy
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne Vic
Posts: 609
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Hold CTRL and then press PRT SCRN key.
it will then copy the current screen (not just forscan either) into memory, then you can open Paint etc and then paste the image in, then save the file as whatever you want, probably a .jpg format. Otherwise be slack like me and take a pic with the phone, as that is how I do all my posting here. ![]()
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Weekend Toy: S1 AU Fairlane V8 with LTD bits, Tickford 17" wheels, front and rear chin spoilers, series 2 front brake conversion with Super pro bushes, Pacemaker headers, rear muffler removed, Kings/Pedders lowered suspension, Koni adj rears, painted headlight bezels, HR 2300kg hitch, 2 stage shift kit, trans cooler, reverse cam and media player. Wife unit's : 2010 update FG XR6, reverse cam, HR 2300kg Hitch, German Maestro speakers, parcel shelf sub, trimmed mudflaps, batman stickers. |
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#18 | ||
Fordluva
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
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just posted the forscan vid on u tube http://youtu.be/93rHGc7SoJg its out of focus might have to do it again. The main column reads timing-02#1-02#2-maf v- then stft 1 and 2looks like I have a problem on one bank Injectors??
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#19 | ||
5.6L x 2 pilot
![]() ![]() Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Canbra
Posts: 14,994
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Looking at your video, it is hard to tell what is what, but I think was the MAFV (3 up from the bottom in the third column) does appear to be jumping around a bit compared to the RPM.
Here is a vid of a 5L that I tune. The MAF voltage is in the left column, 6 boxes down. You will note that it is sitting nicely around the 1V mark with only a variation of around 0.1V to 0.2V. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN6g4x1Bd_E This video shows the same screen. MAFV is the same box, but is my car when the MAF was dirty and playing up. Much more variation in this one. http://youtu.be/ac8sUe5V1e8 Hope that helps. Cheers Stu
__________________
2002 AU II LTD 5.6L 342ci T3 Short, AFR165 heads, Comp XE270HR-12 Cam, Brembo 4/4s(355/330), T3 5 spokes, LC-1 wideband, Whiteline HD swaybars, TCE 3K Hi Stall, PWR Auto Trans Cooler, Koni shocks, King Low Springs, Hurricane headers, 100 cpsi cats, Twin 2.5" exhaust. Quarter Mile: 13.73 @ 105.86mph Runner Up NA/DA to BF Fairlane/LTD Geelong AFD 2024 ![]() 2002 XR8 pursuit 250 Custom twin 2.5" exhaust w Herrod modifed extractors, Tuned with Moates QH
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#20 | ||
Fordluva
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
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I think ill do another one tomorrow that's in focus.
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#21 | ||
CNC fixer guy
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne Vic
Posts: 609
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I managed to have a good look at the maf,
there are security Torx bits screwing it together, should have known that... DOH! That's what happens when you tinker in the dark.
__________________
Weekend Toy: S1 AU Fairlane V8 with LTD bits, Tickford 17" wheels, front and rear chin spoilers, series 2 front brake conversion with Super pro bushes, Pacemaker headers, rear muffler removed, Kings/Pedders lowered suspension, Koni adj rears, painted headlight bezels, HR 2300kg hitch, 2 stage shift kit, trans cooler, reverse cam and media player. Wife unit's : 2010 update FG XR6, reverse cam, HR 2300kg Hitch, German Maestro speakers, parcel shelf sub, trimmed mudflaps, batman stickers. |
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#22 | ||
Fordluva
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
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Hi all I just posted a new video on the forscan readouts. You will notice that when I shut it down and restart it starts nice and lean then goes over to rich after a couple of secs sounds like you've pulled the choke out on a carbi engine. It seems that I may have a problem on the right bank. What about that maf reading-should it be stable??http://youtu.be/nE5_Zxr9dGs
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#23 | |||
CNC fixer guy
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne Vic
Posts: 609
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Quote:
that vid is better. I am definately no expert with these things, but from what I can see,the maf only seems to jump around by 10mV, not sure if that is still acceptable. It also seems the maf and tp V is slightly higher than 1V at idle, they are normally just below 1V at idle. It seems when you hold the throttle that the tpV does not alter by more than 0.2 V at nearly 3000rpm and your iac jumps up to around 50% there. Can you switch the engine off and confirm you get a good smooth tpV from closed throttle to full throttle- about 4.5V)? Could you do another vid also showing injector pulse width? And also confirm it is going into closed loop mode (at operating temp and running for more than 30 seconds). If all that is acceptable then perhaps do a fuel pressure test and see if too high. Another thing you can test with a fuel pressure gauge is an injector leak down test. (Turn on ignition but dont crank, record max pressure then watch gauge over a minute or so to record leak rate), if pressure falls too fast you may have a leaky injector? I made myself a pressure gauge from spare industrial machine parts - Japanese water pressure gauge that displays kgf/cm2, but I can convert that to psi well enough: ) Or buy an efi fuel pressure gauge from around 60 bucks. Its not hard to check our engines fuel pressure as there is a schrader valve up front. Perhaps Stu can jump in and correct me here or add more ideas. Good luck. Andrew.
__________________
Weekend Toy: S1 AU Fairlane V8 with LTD bits, Tickford 17" wheels, front and rear chin spoilers, series 2 front brake conversion with Super pro bushes, Pacemaker headers, rear muffler removed, Kings/Pedders lowered suspension, Koni adj rears, painted headlight bezels, HR 2300kg hitch, 2 stage shift kit, trans cooler, reverse cam and media player. Wife unit's : 2010 update FG XR6, reverse cam, HR 2300kg Hitch, German Maestro speakers, parcel shelf sub, trimmed mudflaps, batman stickers. |
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#24 | ||
Fordluva
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
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Yea I'm thinking a leaking injector on the right bank. Its weird how it runs lean on start up and then gradually goes to over rich. And it doesn't seem to go into closed loop mode at all even when driving, Forscan box continually says OFF for the closed loop mode and the engine gets up to 81Deg is that hot enough?
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#25 | ||
Fordluva
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
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I cant seem to get clear focus on the video but it looks ok on my computer??
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#26 | |||
CNC fixer guy
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne Vic
Posts: 609
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Quote:
Not sure about min temp but i reckon by 85deg C it should easily be in closed loop (engine has to be running for at least 30 seconds too). The PID for closed loop monitoring Is called fuelsys I think, actually I think there are two PID'S called fuelsys, you have to choose both if not sure.
__________________
Weekend Toy: S1 AU Fairlane V8 with LTD bits, Tickford 17" wheels, front and rear chin spoilers, series 2 front brake conversion with Super pro bushes, Pacemaker headers, rear muffler removed, Kings/Pedders lowered suspension, Koni adj rears, painted headlight bezels, HR 2300kg hitch, 2 stage shift kit, trans cooler, reverse cam and media player. Wife unit's : 2010 update FG XR6, reverse cam, HR 2300kg Hitch, German Maestro speakers, parcel shelf sub, trimmed mudflaps, batman stickers. |
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#27 | ||
Fordluva
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
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Yea ok because I was sure I've seen that open loop closed loop display in the past so I will have a look for the second pid tomorrow and might be able to borrow a pressure gauge. More to do tomorrow, see how we go.
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#28 | |||
CNC fixer guy
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne Vic
Posts: 609
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Quote:
it seems your TPV and IAC is about normal. I didnt expect the IAC to increase duty when the throttle was opened, but there you go.
__________________
Weekend Toy: S1 AU Fairlane V8 with LTD bits, Tickford 17" wheels, front and rear chin spoilers, series 2 front brake conversion with Super pro bushes, Pacemaker headers, rear muffler removed, Kings/Pedders lowered suspension, Koni adj rears, painted headlight bezels, HR 2300kg hitch, 2 stage shift kit, trans cooler, reverse cam and media player. Wife unit's : 2010 update FG XR6, reverse cam, HR 2300kg Hitch, German Maestro speakers, parcel shelf sub, trimmed mudflaps, batman stickers. |
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#29 | ||
Fordluva
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
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Yea cool I think ill get the injectors cleaned and see how that goes. Thanks for your input.Bret
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#30 | ||
Fordluva
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
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Hi all
The Tickford AU2 200KW is up to its old tricks again Drinking the fuel, stinky rich exhaust small loss of power hunting at idle. Cleaned the MAF Its pulling 15" of vacuum at my altitude (1000m) I've done a you tube clip of the scan readings https://youtu.be/JaYz8f5UuNQ Can someone who has experience with these AU injected Windsor's have a look and give me an opinion I've noticed the 02s seem to be uneven, they have done 2000k only Took them out they were a bit sooty as expected When the ECU is in open loop on cold starting the short term fuel trims start at about 18% rich and come down to about 3% till the ECU goes into open then they head straight up to 40% rich Can someone tell me if the MAF,idle control,temp etc. are all in spec last time it did this I replaced both o2s and it 95% fixed it They are VDO brand,surely they couldn't be gone again with 2000k on them. I also capped all vacuum ports to no effect Would a bad cam sensor cause this,Ive tried disconnecting it to no effect All help would be appreciated Bret. |
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