Is our economy screwed ?

[dave289]

Just thinking the other day that the only real thing in our economy that is thriving is mining. Because of this the government says our inflation is strong and we are going great guns, so now we need to increase rates ,etc to keep things in check. The problem is most other economies are on the brink of colapse and they then make it harder on them because of this. Our manufacturing industry is finished, everybody wants things for the cheapest price they can get it for. So instead of aussie joe blow making a good quality product for say $15 dollars , joe wong in china makes crap for $1 because his workers get paid 30 cents an hour instead of $30 an hour over here .so most people go out and buy joe wongs product for $2. aussie joe cant compete anymore and is forced to close his doors and his buisiness, he is now out of a job and so are all the people he used to employ. Then comes retail, people rent out a shop ,employ people and start to sell there product. Because of the internet and also our strong dollar, many people now shop on the net and get products delivered to there door for a fraction of the cost, they can shop in the comfort of their own home , whenever they feel like it and dont have to venture to the shopping centre wasting time and money on petrol either. people can run a buisiness in their home and dont have to pay a $1,000 a week in rent in some shopping center and dont need to employ staff, so as you can see they can sell their product much cheaper online, saving you and me time and money and now putting these retail outlets out of buisiness, more buisiness closing down and more people out of a job. Whenever I ring optus or the like I am now dealing with either an Indian or malaysian call center. these buisinesses who used to employ australians now send all there work overseas, cause they can pay these people $2 an hour instead of $22 an hour here, so many more jobs losses again for our economy. So without our mining industry ,what would we have, a failing economy. So we are now in an economy where most industries are falling down and many of our jobs are going overseas. Is our mining going do remain as competative for many years to come. I know china are now heavily into mining over there and what if they find enough resources on there own soil , they will mine them for a lot less than we do here. So , is our economy screwed ?

[KYSBF]

Well said dave289, I agree with most of your points.
It would seem that most Aussies put saving a buck before the greater good of the country.

Not only is the resource industry being bought out by overseas interests, there is also a lot of farming land being bought up atm.

[gtfpv]

arent they selling our rain also !! in the form of water catchments !!

[vztrt]

There are still pockets of manufacturing in this country that will be around for a long time (Bricks, large steel pipe, etc). Which then flows to other companies suppling machines, electrical gear and services for these companies.

There are other non manufacturing sectors that seem to do well.

But when the mining stops here we're gonna be in a pickle if the government haven't invested money in getting new industries up and running. But that would mean no tax break for people, and money not spent on buying votes.

[Hulsty]

Start doing your bit to change things then! ie Buy Australian made, there is still a lot of manufacturing here, maybe not on a huge scale but a lot of people employed my small to medium manufacturing.

Myself I dont mind paying the extra for Australian made, ie my last work boots were Rossi boots, only ones I could find made here and were only ~10% more than over seas made boots.

What shits me though is when Australian made goods are deliberately priced higher than the same thing in other over seas markets.

[fmc351]

Thats capitalism for you. Free trade, private ownership of everything, sale to the highest bidder. The opposite is communism, an equally unpalatable choice. Dont get me started on that, but I will say, we only have ourselves to blame for those choices. The left side of politics has normally sided with not selling off assets like that, but that has now changed and they have joined the right side of politics in selling everything off too. I know thats political, but its not meant to be, its an observation. The point, we only have ourselves (the public) to blame for not understanding what the past 40 or so years has led us to.



Anyway, interest rates needed to rise. They were too low to be useful as a tool of economics. For home buyers, well they see it differently. Rates are but one part of the machine that adjusts the economy. The economy needs constant fine tuning, all economies are essentially a house of cards and it doesnt take much to blow them over without something to adjust it with. Its a tad cynical, but pretty close anyway. If rates stayed low, thats one less tool they have to adjust with. Obviously no-one wants 10% or worse though. Just as they lowered them to help stimulate the economy, sometimes they need to raise them to slow it. Interest rates are just a popular subject for the media, and thats partly because of the late 80's and more recently way too many people bought the most house they could get at low rates, leaving no room for the inevitable rises. I get why, but it was foolishness.

There are essentially only two ways to deal with cheap imports, tariffs or buyers chose to pay the premium for local products. Theres a 3rd, but it is just pointless, lower wages. Lower wages means less to spend, less to pay said premium as well so it defeats the purpose. Tariffs would cost us in mining royalties and jobs as the Chinese would be less inclined to buy minerals off us, if they cant sell to us at free market rates. Oh, and when the wage issues with China level out, India(insert whoever here) will take over from them, and around we go again. So youre left with paying the premium, which effectively reduces your income power by a related amount. Back to square one.

$1000 a week in a shopping centre? Where? More like 10k for a smallish shop in a larger centre. Yeah, theres that real estate greed again.


The entire point. Maybe if we all paid a bit more attention inschool, and took subjects like economics, we would know what exactly any government is doing and why, and could make a reasoned assessment when ti came time to vote, thus shaping policy. Yeah, we only have ourselves to blame.

[mickyyyy]

I was talking to a mate yesturday and i asked u guyz busy and how does it compare to this time last yr. His responce was its cruzy now but last yr this time was flat stick and hurry up and finish it.

He is in the wardrobe and shower screen's business and he mentioned that cheap imports and cheap labour is hurting business.

We all know who offers cheap product and cheap labour..............

[burnz]

10% of china's GDP is from wallmart, wait till they come here wallmart and have woolies/coles do the same to compete..

[castellan]

Is our economy screwed.
No it' all going as was planned.
But us Aussies are going to be screwed over.

[ThaFlash]

As long as regular aussies are being financially murdered at the bowser, check out, utilities, taxes and for those who pay rent, then nothing anyone said before me is relevant.

This evil conspiracy strikes at the very heart of normal regular existance, the conspiritors have enveloped every aspect of our lives in order to turn a consistant and steadily rising profit.

We, the regular normal people have no voice, we have no victories, we suffer in silence at the hands of those we elected to protect and help us by easing the suffering against those companies that show us no respect.

We, the people SHOULD have the power to topple the Government, to put any business out of business. That is if we could unite and be committed to the cause.

The Government and Big Companies know how powerfull we are, when they constantly raise prices on everything in order for us to bail them out. They keep us poor and in debt and living in fear and that is how the dogs control us.

In any other country at any other point in history we would revolt and force change or die trying.

We the people are prisoners in our own free democracy.....

[|||]

you're only in trouble if you have no skills. if the best job you can get is a shop assistant or manning a telephone then you're in for some pain. if you work hard to improve your skills you'll be fine.

[Jim Goose]

Greed is good....

People sometimes forget that we have been heading in a direction that pushes us to thrive for money. Companies are constantly floated on the stock market, meaning they must turn over even more profit. Most of the time this causes the company to move offshore or certain elements offshore to a 3rd world country where they can pay 50cents a day to someone.

Public utilities like Telstra, Electricity, Trains, Water etc are all sold off or "corporatized". This mean IT MUST MAKE A profit.
How the average person actually believes that selling off public utilities is a good thing and believes the spin the government tells us that bills will go down is beyond me.

Its a Governments/ Councils job to provide us with services, not to farm it out to private enterprize. Otherwise what is the purpose of a government?

We all harp on the governments misuse(?) of our tax payer money... yet more and more private citizens are going backrupt, or spending well beyond their means.

It never ceases to amaze me at the amount of credit cards people have in their wallets when they are at the shops trying to pay for something.
Or the "extravengent" life style they try to live by purchasing 5 to 6 bedroom homes with 3 lounges, a pool, an office, 2 bathrooms etc etc.... then 12months later they pack up and move because "they cant afford it".

Our personal debt frankly is disgusting.....

China is a large beast which is devouring a lot of the earths resources and economys simply because of the massive population.
We are riding on the back of the mining industry yes... and not planning for the future at all. Our resouces are being ripped out of the ground and sent over seas.
How about we start thinking of this country for a change? and where our minerals go, because once its gone, we have nothing.

And those who believe our current govco is too blame where we are now, then you are blinded by party politics...

[mik]

the way i see it we are a bit behind the eight ball , trying to compete with imports, especially the third world ones, but somewhere down the track they will catch up and be paying their workers wages like ours and then the scales will even up, imports have been flooding in for years, when i was doing general freight trucking years ago, the amount of imports compared to exports was huge, it really hits home when you swing the doors of a reefer open at one of our big fresh food cold stores to see california stamped on the oranges.
i don`t think were screwed, but we could be doing better if people were a bit more patriotic and bought Australian.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by mik

the way i see it we are a bit behind the eight ball , trying to compete with imports, especially the third world ones, but somewhere down the track they will catch up and be paying their workers wages like ours and then the scales will even up, imports have been flooding in for years, when i was doing general freight trucking years ago, the amount of imports compared to exports was huge, it really hits home when you swing the doors of a reefer open at one of our big fresh food cold stores to see california stamped on the oranges.
i don`t think were screwed, but we could be doing better if people were a bit more patriotic and bought Australian.

California Oranges are part of why we have oranges all year round, the same is true for many seasonal things. They dont usually come in when Oranges are in season here. Their summer being our winter. Seafood though, thats another story.

When China for example has effective wage parity (cost of delivery + wage = or > local wages), then India will fill that void. There is enough poor countries to keep doing it this way for much more than my lifetime anyway.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Thats capitalism for you. Free trade, private ownership of everything, sale to the highest bidder. The opposite is communism, an equally unpalatable choice. Dont get me started on that, but I will say, we only have ourselves to blame for those choices. The left side of politics has normally sided with not selling off assets like that, but that has now changed and they have joined the right side of politics in selling everything off too. I know thats political, but its not meant to be, its an observation. The point, we only have ourselves (the public) to blame for not understanding what the past 40 or so years has led us to.



Anyway, interest rates needed to rise. They were too low to be useful as a tool of economics. For home buyers, well they see it differently. Rates are but one part of the machine that adjusts the economy. The economy needs constant fine tuning, all economies are essentially a house of cards and it doesnt take much to blow them over without something to adjust it with. Its a tad cynical, but pretty close anyway. If rates stayed low, thats one less tool they have to adjust with. Obviously no-one wants 10% or worse though. Just as they lowered them to help stimulate the economy, sometimes they need to raise them to slow it. Interest rates are just a popular subject for the media, and thats partly because of the late 80's and more recently way too many people bought the most house they could get at low rates, leaving no room for the inevitable rises. I get why, but it was foolishness.

There are essentially only two ways to deal with cheap imports, tariffs or buyers chose to pay the premium for local products. Theres a 3rd, but it is just pointless, lower wages. Lower wages means less to spend, less to pay said premium as well so it defeats the purpose. Tariffs would cost us in mining royalties and jobs as the Chinese would be less inclined to buy minerals off us, if they cant sell to us at free market rates. Oh, and when the wage issues with China level out, India(insert whoever here) will take over from them, and around we go again. So youre left with paying the premium, which effectively reduces your income power by a related amount. Back to square one.

$1000 a week in a shopping centre? Where? More like 10k for a smallish shop in a larger centre. Yeah, theres that real estate greed again.


The entire point. Maybe if we all paid a bit more attention inschool, and took subjects like economics, we would know what exactly any government is doing and why, and could make a reasoned assessment when ti came time to vote, thus shaping policy. Yeah, we only have ourselves to blame.

HUH !!!! PFFT . thats funny . you actually think the way you vote dictates the direction of the country , ( WRONG!!! ) Industrial action, and secondry boycotting is what speaks . however the govt took down the biggest players !!! the transport industry and waterfront , by casualising and derogotorising those priciples, and the public fell for the overpaid bludger rhetoric .
when the public fell for this they lowered all the rights, and conditions of all the future generations . what happens when you call corperate directores over paid bludgers? ANSWER nothing , they still retire at 45 with millions and millions of $$$$ FOR SELLING OFF YOUR ASSETTS .

[TheInterceptor]

When the govornment thinks broadband is more important than water and thinks that selling off bits of AUSTRALIA to other countries/ O.S corporations is a good way to make money then hmm.....

[trippytaka]

Long term? we're all screwed. The entire world economy will grind to a very sudden halt as soon as it's realised that we've past peak oil about 10 years ago and we can no longer rely on such a cheap source of energy that we've been squandering on plastics to make our lives easier and then chucking them out into landfill.

[sandmanls1]

if aussie companies were smart they should go to China, lots of opportunities for franchises etc in shopping centres and the rent is not extortionate like here. Still my wife hardly buys anything for a store / shop now with sites like buyinvite etc just wait for something to come up that you need and as long as you are not in a hurry wait for it, we are also conditioned now by the retailers to wait for sales etc. Will be interesting to see what happens with all the retailers including Gerry if the under $1,000 no GST is changed. Maybe if they got some idea of customer service things might change.

[pottery beige]

Make your own economy.. work hard dont spend more than you earn.. buy the toys you want and hope you dont get run over by a bus......

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

HUH !!!! PFFT . thats funny . you actually think the way you vote dictates the direction of the country , ( WRONG!!! ) Industrial action, and secondry boycotting is what speaks . however the govt took down the biggest players !!! the transport industry and waterfront , by casualising and derogotorising those priciples, and the public fell for the overpaid bludger rhetoric .
when the public fell for this they lowered all the rights, and conditions of all the future generations . what happens when you call corperate directores over paid bludgers? ANSWER nothing , they still retire at 45 with millions and millions of $$$$ FOR SELLING OFF YOUR ASSETTS .

Depending on other factors, yes elections can effect policy. Ive said in another thread that waiting for elections to make change is pointless, so I get what youre saying. That does not mean they dont effect policy.

Dont tell me about unions, my old man was 'El Presidente' of his union before he retired. When I was a kid he was shop steward, secretary and all round poo stirrer. He drank (he wasnt a big drinker though) with Bob Hawke at the John Curtain Hotel in Hawkes ACTU days (my old man says hes a rat and refuses to talk to him now), he was at just about everything involving the Melbourne Trades Hall, as was I as a kid. I ate my first oysters kilpatrik at the John Curtain when I was about 5 (actually, this may not have been the JC, I have a feeling it was a pub down one of the little lanes somewhere in Melb). If it wasnt union, it was local issues.

I get it, I also get a tad more economics than he did too. Im very proud of his efforts and principles and for the most part support them. Unfortunately during the 80's most unions suffered the same problem most large employers have, a lack of understanding of the others position. But yes, its usually the unions and the employees that get the worst of the screwing over, and worse, they often seem to welcome it. Thats one reason I said maybe we should all have paid a tad more attention at school to economics. Then we could understand the arguments put forward.

Clearer?

[dave289]

Heres the typical spruik about how our economy is going great guns , released less than half an hour after I started the thread.

http://www.news.com.au/money/busines...-1225960816170

[mik]

Originally Posted by fmc351

California Oranges are part of why we have oranges all year round, the same is true for many seasonal things. They dont usually come in when Oranges are in season here. Their summer being our winter. Seafood though, thats another story.

When China for example has effective wage parity (cost of delivery + wage = or > local wages), then India will fill that void. There is enough poor countries to keep doing it this way for much more than my lifetime anyway.

perhaps but others probably won`t have the impact of china`s trade on the world, and the oranges was only a single example, i pretty much made most of my living on imports.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by mik

perhaps but others probably won`t have the impact of china`s trade on the world, and the oranges was only a single example, i pretty much made most of my living on imports.

India will. Between China and India, they are half the worlds population, China is slightly larger than India though, but India is the next most populace. Both have similar amounts of peasants or working poor to exploit and enough basic infrastructure to get it going. India is already buying up big, they have companies like Tata.

China is barely ustilising 10 or so percent now, the rest still try to live as they always have.

[Auslandau]

Had your rant ..... life goes on.

Just so all can understand why thread was deleted .....
http://www.fordforums.com.au/announc...nouncementid=2