Naming rights

[roddy1960]

G'day all , I just read that Holden has decided to retain the Commodore name plate on whatever GM product they bring in to replace the real Commodore after 2017..The Holden fans are totally divided on this going by the comments I read. Some say it's smart to keep a link with the 'heritage' of the name that has been around since 1978 , equally as many say that this is an insult to the car. I don't have any great passion for Commodores despite I know they are a pretty decent car so it'd be unfair for me to try and decide. IF by some chance Ford did this with any eventual serious replacement for the mighty Falcon (another 18 years more heritage than Commodore) , how would us Ford/Falcon enthusiasts feel ?..Personally I think that unless the car was at least AWD such as the V6 Taurus I couldn't stomach the thought of a straight out FWD car called Ford Falcon and just retire the nameplate and just stick with the name of whatever and if ever we get a full sized sedan from the Blue Oval again as a direct replacement for Falcon..OR if Ford Australia decide to market the current Mondeo as that car ,just call it Mondeo...Love to know your thoughts on the merits or demerits of retaining a marque name..Cheers Rod..

[XRtowcar]

Holden have a history of doing it.
Look at the Barina.
Japanese, European, South Korean.
Don't think Holden buyers will notice.

[lra]

It doesn’t matter what they call it, Kingswood, Commodore, Insignia, LaCross,......it will be a dud.
If people are not buying Aussie made Falcodores, why would they buy an imported large car that is longer, higher, narrower, shorter wheelbase, FWD with less power.
How are Mondeo sales going ? Anyone remember the Ford Taurus ? Anyone know about the Holden Epica or Malibu ?
And if time proves me wrong, will anyone care as they sit in their disposable econobox on a gridlocked freeway ?
( Retire the Commodore name, so that enthusiasts can remember a real car.)

[2011G6E]

I still remember the wailing and nashing of teeth that accompanied the death of the Kingswood. No one will buy that funny little European looking car...we want the big Kingy!!!!
Then it turned out that the Commodore actually was way better packaged, handled amazingly compared to anything Holden had spat out before, and was actually quiet and refined and made the beloved Kingswood immediately old fashioned and way out of date...especially noticeable when VB Commodores and HX Kingswoods were sitting side by side in the showrooms. Ford had the same "problem" with the end of the XC and the XD's all sitting together. The "1970's style cars" looked way older than the "modern" cars sitting beside them.

No doubt the exact same thing will happen now. They should let the Commodore die a dignified death, and let people grieve and move on to whatever comes next.

And I would bet money that when the new car comes along, people will quickly realise it's better than what they were driving before...possibly with a lot of the newer features and toys that have been standard overseas on family cars for quite some time that we are only just now starting to see in the last Commodores.

And it will most likely be the same with the Falcon.
Let the name die, move on.

Oh, and "enthusiasts"...?
Look, we're all enthusiasts...however, we shouldn't be under the illusion that "enthusiasts" in any way keep a car company afloat. Volume keeps a company afloat, and the ordinary buyer wants "a car". They don't care a jot about quarter mile times, 0-100, or how quickly it can lap a circuit. They want good running costs, ease of use, comfort, accessories, and reliability. Trust me...people might have moved away from large sedans, but as long as Ford and Holden don't fail to learn from the past and think they must replace the Falcon/Commodore with another non-selling large sedan, they will do well. For Holden, the American Chev Impala would be a good choice...not as physically large as a Commodore, but well packaged inside and with plenty of appointments and interesting stuff. Went like a cut snake too for a simple FWD V6. Holden could do a lot worse. But maybe they should read the buyers and concentrate on SUV's and twin cabs for the time being...

[Sabantien]

I figure enthusiasts will know the difference and not like it.
People who aren't enthusiasts are already not buying large sedans.

Even if a decent car replaces it, why does it need the same nameplate? It's a new beginning, treat it as such.

[xisled]

People will buy it because it's a commodore, majority of people just want the car to go point a to b.

Enthusiasts are a very small percentage of buyers who buy brand new.

[Junkyard-Dog]

Yeah, those of you that think average Aussies won't buy it because it's Chinese (or whatever)... obviously don't know many "average Aussies".

[Itsme]

A popular brand name will always sell!

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by xisled

Enthusiasts are a very small percentage of buyers who buy brand new.

True...and most of them don't buy brand new cars as a rule. Most buy them second hand years later.
I am still surprised that the dealer told us (when I wanted to see under the bonnet) that I was probably the first person in months who had even asked to see under there. It just doesn't matter in the minds of buyers...they don't care.

[Express]

They could rebadge the Falcon the Pidgeon for all I care.

It’s not the name that interests me, it’s the car.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Express

They could rebadge the Falcon the Pidgeon for all I care.

It’s not the name that interests me, it’s the car.

G'day all..Thanks for the replies..I agree , The Ford Pigeon would work...It'd **** all over the opposition just like the Falcon does..Jokes aside I think the general consensus is that GMH should retire the name ..Sounds like they're not gunna though..Cheers Rod

[STINKY NINJA]

Not much different to using the "sprint" name on whatever car comes along....
Makes it have no meaning at all.
Until those badged fgx sprints came out an xr8 sprint was a bloody "ed xr8 sprint!"

[Raptor]

Falcon + Sprint dates back to the original 1960's era Falcons and were quite significant in launching another Ford nameplate that is still around.

From wiki:

...These first-generation Falcon Sprints were the basis for the 1964½ Mustangs released by Ford one year later...

In fact it was the success of Mustang that killed off the Falcon in the USA.


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[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I still remember the wailing and nashing of teeth that accompanied the death of the Kingswood. No one will buy that funny little European looking car...we want the big Kingy!!!!

Well, umm, they were right.
Back in those days Dad's company car was always a Premier. He got one of the first Commodes and it was just nasty. Dad actually preferred driving our XC Ute, to the Commode.
Needless to say, his company, and thousands like them, jumped ship to the XD as soon as they were able.

Thing with the Commode is that it has always been a grab-bag of re-hashed GM parts. In fact what they are getting was always going to be the new Commodore. Only difference is that it was planned for both Chinese (Buick) and Australian production, but will now only been built in China.

Now the only Falcon I have left is off the road, I'm using the TTG as a daily/ family. I don't have the luxury of a personal collection, and the reality is that if a I want a daily hack there will be plenty of 2nd hand Falcons around for some time to come. If I had the money, I'd be buying a GT or an XR8.
Now, hypothetically, if the kids were still younger, and we wanted a big safe sedan, that I would sometimes drive, if they could produce for example a Taurus based Falcon, with the V6, and make it drive ok (not like a US land-barge) I'd accept that. Similarly, the same car with the big turbo V6, and AWD, would be IMHO a worthy successor to the Xr6T.

Would I accept it being built in Mexico or China? That would be tough.

But its a moot point. If we want a new large Ford sedan post Falcon, there will presumably be the Mondeo, hopefully with a few more engine options.

[1970galaxie]

The aftermarket industry better start topping up their CHEV badges.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Well, umm, they were right.
Back in those days Dad's company car was always a Premier. He got one of the first Commodes and it was just nasty. Dad actually preferred driving our XC Ute, to the Commode.
Needless to say, his company, and thousands like them, jumped ship to the XD as soon as they were able.

Thing with the Commode is that it has always been a grab-bag of re-hashed GM parts. In fact what they are getting was always going to be the new Commodore. Only difference is that it was planned for both Chinese (Buick) and Australian production, but will now only been built in China.

Now the only Falcon I have left is off the road, I'm using the TTG as a daily/ family. I don't have the luxury of a personal collection, and the reality is that if a I want a daily hack there will be plenty of 2nd hand Falcons around for some time to come. If I had the money, I'd be buying a GT or an XR8.
Now, hypothetically, if the kids were still younger, and we wanted a big safe sedan, that I would sometimes drive, if they could produce for example a Taurus based Falcon, with the V6, and make it drive ok (not like a US land-barge) I'd accept that. Similarly, the same car with the big turbo V6, and AWD, would be IMHO a worthy successor to the Xr6T.

Would I accept it being built in Mexico or China? That would be tough.

But its a moot point. If we want a new large Ford sedan post Falcon, there will presumably be the Mondeo, hopefully with a few more engine options.

What Commodore was he driving ?
The VB Commodore was magic to drive with a 4.2L or 5.0L the 6 cyl were gutless but the XC and XD only had that crappy hopeless leaf rear end and the power steering was a joke and sitting in the centre of the rear seat of a XD was hard as a rock just rubbish but the VB rear seat was fine.

Holden can't make a front wheel drive and call it a Commodore, maybe a bombmodore, big FWD cars are just for transport, nothing that will inspire anything worth jack.

[GO FURTHER]

From a business marketing cost perspective, it costs millions over a number of years to build a brand name or model name that most people can associate with.
So names like Falcon and Commodore that have a long heritage do have an established high market recognition and invested value in terms of marketing dollars.

It can be very costly today to establish a new model name, and one that could possibly fail.

Think of other car models that have instant recognition in consumers minds because of their long history such as Landcruiser, Patrol, Corvette and Mustang.

However, I think Ford and GM need to take a leaf out of the German car manufacturers such as BMW, Benz and Audi who I think have a much smarter model naming strategy. Instead of constantly thinking up names that sound good or different and trying to grow that "name" branding, they instead use alphanumeric names to identify their cars, such as C180, A3, S series, 325 or X5, etc, etc.
The benefit of this is that consumers don't get hang up on a "name" , and in using simple short alphanumeric names for models, people not fully up to date on one of those brands.... Just tend to focus more on the main car brand name rather than a particular model name.

For example, if you did not know much about Mercedes Benz, you would not know the difference between a C class, E class or their S class series cars but you would probably be aware that Mercedes Benz was a quality brand and that would lead you to investigate more if you wanted to buy one.

The same strategy should be used by Ford and GM to get consumers into their showrooms.

At the end of the day the marketing focus should be on the car brand itself for the long haul and not the individual models that change so frequently and are updated along the way.

Just my 2 cents as always.

[Express]

When BMW took the coupe variant of the M3 and renamed it the M4 it didn’t ruffle too many feathers.

I could only image the outcry if mid production GMH changed the Monaro name.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by castellan

What Commodore was he driving ?
The VB Commodore was magic to drive with a 4.2L or 5.0L the 6 cyl were gutless but the XC and XD only had that crappy hopeless leaf rear end

Our XC Ute was actually the carrier for our "Villa Nova" camper.

The VB was utter rubbish, ESPECIALLY the rear suspension. Dad put a tow-bar on the ute to haul the boat, because the commode literally collapsed under the weight. (The only problem with the ute, was that we needed to sit in the back to get traction when pulling out on slippery ramps.)

But even when going to the shops or visit Nan on the weekends, Dad preferred to drive the Ute.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Our XC Ute was actually the carrier for our "Villa Nova" camper.

The VB was utter rubbish, ESPECIALLY the rear suspension. Dad put a tow-bar on the ute to haul the boat, because the commode literally collapsed under the weight. (The only problem with the ute, was that we needed to sit in the back to get traction when pulling out on slippery ramps.)

But even when going to the shops or visit Nan on the weekends, Dad preferred to drive the Ute.

Easy fixed with rear springs set up for it if you tow or use pump ups, but the VB Commodore was not really the car one bought for towing was it, you got a falcon for that or a 5.8L F100 was the best for campers and towing.