Taking BA to Ford for an annoying miss. How much pain will I be in?

[BA-XT]

Hi all,

My BA is missing underload after I washed the engine bay. Ended up with water around the spark plug. Pulled spark plug / coil out, dried, checked and put back in ect., took to my mechanic and couldn't find anything wrong either.

Still flatspotting underload at around 2,200, or 1,750 if you accellerate from there. Pings and misses if you accelerate quickly in triptronic mode. Worse with an empty tank and quite dangerous if you need to overtake.

As a last resort I've booked my car in at Ford Dandenong. $115 for looking at it before they do anything. Spoke to the service department over the phone. Said it's quite common and they'll give it a flash tune on the computer as well.

Any guesses as to how much pain i'll be in? I'm thinking around $400.

[Mr Hardware]

Yeah about $400 is right, double that if they fix the problem.

[mik]

so it could be wet electricals? i would have tried drowning the ignition circuit with a tin of water displacer first.

[BA-XT]

Originally Posted by mik

so it could be wet electricals? i would have tried drowning the ignition circuit with a tin of water displacer first.

Like the CRC stuff? You mean all over the coils?

It's been like this for around 2 weeks now. It's all dry. Never putting a drop of water near the engine again.

[Gobes32]

I had the same problem, washed car, misfired under load, turned out to be the ignition coil.

[BA-XT]

Ringing around trying to find a second handy to try out. it'll have to be the first coil, as that's where the water was.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Mr_BA2003

Like the CRC stuff? You mean all over the coils?

It's been like this for around 2 weeks now. It's all dry. Never putting a drop of water near the engine again.

yes that`s the stuff, i used to look after a self serv car wash in my youth for a time, so many cars either would not start or leave with the engine misfiring until they eventually dryed out, the answer was nearly always the same, dry the wet part out with either a rag or drown it with crc 556 or wd40, sometimes you have to pull the leads off and spray up into the boots, and into the boots where the leads enter the coil pack,

washing the engine with these high pressure washers can be a problem, the water is under so much pressure it can get into places you don`t want,
if you stick your hand in front of the nozzle some of them will take your skin off, or even damage paint work if you get too close, i think you could even damage some delicate things if held close, old plug leads can be a bit delicate sometimes(not saying that`s your problem though).
i won`t use high pressure to wash the engine these days, i prefer to put the car up on ramps hit it with the degreaser and a brush and hose it off, it takes longer and you get a bit grotty, but you can avoid drowning stuff you don`t want to get drowned.
.sometimes if you look at the engine running at night in the pitch dark around the ignition area`s you can see spark leaking out, ba`s have the plug going through the rocker cover don`t they?, compressed air can be alright to dry stuff out too.
let us know what you find.

[dave351cid]

i would put money on it that it will be a dodgy coil. the water was probably the last straw for it.

you could get another one and plug it on before taking it in . just start it up with the black top cover off and lift the coils off the plug one at a time till you find the one that not working, or there may be a couple of them if its as bad as you say.
some times if you have it running in the dark ( with the top cover removed ) you can see the spark jumping out the side of a coil onto the rocker cover.

you can buy full sets of oils on ebay pretty cheap now. i usually car a spare in the ute so if one goes i just pull over and change it.

[GK]

My mate had a bit of a problem like this. We changed over all the coils and found a few (near the front from memory) were a tad rusty.

New coils fixed it.

GK

[buggo]

About a year and a bit ago I bought some gen 'AA' first version coils, 6 for about $150ish I think. Hasn't missed a beat since. Maybe it's something to consider? Could save yourself quite a bit mate.

[BA-XT]

Originally Posted by dave351cid

i would put money on it that it will be a dodgy coil. the water was probably the last straw for it.

you could get another one and plug it on before taking it in . just start it up with the black top cover off and lift the coils off the plug one at a time till you find the one that not working, or there may be a couple of them if its as bad as you say.
some times if you have it running in the dark ( with the top cover removed ) you can see the spark jumping out the side of a coil onto the rocker cover.

you can buy full sets of oils on ebay pretty cheap now. i usually car a spare in the ute so if one goes i just pull over and change it.

I'm acutally looking into doing this. So it's ok to touch and remove the coil plug (I wiggled it back and forth to remove it) when the car is running? I won't get a shock from doing it?

Been looking on E-Bay. Genuine set for $165. Probably older stock, but should still be fine. I just don't want to go to the trouble of replacing everything then find out that it wasn't the coil / plug in the first place!

I'm avoiding Ford. Giving Grunt Automotive a buzz in the morning. They seem good. Very tempted to have a go myself. back plug is a bugger. Easiest way seems to be using two small 3/8 extensions. I don't have the 3/8 set. What about a small 1/2 drive extention, then the unijoint, followed by the larger one?

[BA-XT]

Originally Posted by mik

yes that`s the stuff, i used to look after a self serv car wash in my youth for a time, so many cars either would not start or leave with the engine misfiring until they eventually dryed out, the answer was nearly always the same, dry the wet part out with either a rag or drown it with crc 556 or wd40, sometimes you have to pull the leads off and spray up into the boots, and into the boots where the leads enter the coil pack,

washing the engine with these high pressure washers can be a problem, the water is under so much pressure it can get into places you don`t want,
if you stick your hand in front of the nozzle some of them will take your skin off, or even damage paint work if you get too close, i think you could even damage some delicate things if held close, old plug leads can be a bit delicate sometimes(not saying that`s your problem though).
i won`t use high pressure to wash the engine these days, i prefer to put the car up on ramps hit it with the degreaser and a brush and hose it off, it takes longer and you get a bit grotty, but you can avoid drowning stuff you don`t want to get drowned.
.sometimes if you look at the engine running at night in the pitch dark around the ignition area`s you can see spark leaking out, ba`s have the plug going through the rocker cover don`t they?, compressed air can be alright to dry stuff out too.
let us know what you find.

Just used the regular garden hose :( I sprayed the CRC everywhere. In where the spark plug goes, on the spark plug, up the coil boot.... Bugger of a thing. I washed the top of the engine down with a sponge full of soap.... stupid thing to do! Water pooled at the bottom of the first coil near the bottom. About 2 cm deep

[CAMS290]

Pull coils off, let everything dry out, then put a little bit of dielectric grease on both ends of the rubber boot with your small finger and put back together.
Dielectric grease stops earth/spark leakage.
http://www.permatex.com/products/aut...-Up_Grease.htm

[BA-XT]

Originally Posted by CAMS290

Pull coils off, let everything dry out, then put a little bit of dielectric grease on both ends of the rubber boot with your small finger and put back together.
Dielectric grease stops earth/spark leakage.
http://www.permatex.com/products/aut...-Up_Grease.htm

Did this the next day. Made a bit of a difference for a while, but its back again. When you try to accelerate from say 90 to 100, it feels like your trying to go from 60 to 70 in 5th gear in a manual, not pulling enough revs. It shakes and shudders. Feels terrible.

Going to phone up a local mechanic in Hallam tomorrow. I'm thinking it's coils,'and if it's coils might also effect the spark plugs too. Does it mainly when it's hot and at operating temp.

I've done a lot of searching on this. I've found quite a lot of threads, but most people never post back what the solution was!

Is there anypoint taking it to Ford? They say they can Flash the computer,'but is it really work the extra $$$

[CAMS290]

I wouldn't take it to a Ford dealer. I would take it to a reputable mechanic that has had experience with later model Fords.
Did you try the dielectric grease on the coil boots ?
It is unbelievable stuff, it stopped my Egas from misfiring, when people said it needed new coils.

[BA-XT]

Originally Posted by CAMS290

I wouldn't take it to a Ford dealer. I would take it to a reputable mechanic that has had experience with later model Fords.
Did you try the dielectric grease on the coil boots ?
It is unbelievable stuff, it stopped my Egas from misfiring, when people said it needed new coils.

Yep, put that on the coil boot. It's horrible now. Any load above 2,200rpm when taking off and it shudders. Freeway's the worst. No power at all. Just shuddering, then if forced a bit, coughing and pinging. It's not only annoying, but quite dangerous.

Good part is the fuel ecomony. Averaged 10.5L/100 last tank because i can't rev it out much!

Booked in for Monday at 12:30 at Grunt Automotive in Hallam. Seems like a really nice guy.

[jixel 78]

Still missing? Tried out all the `fixes`? Take it to the Ford dealer, their Diag tool can see which cylinder is missfiring in real time,even on the road. `reputable specialist top bloke`will throw all 6 coils at it to cover his behind. Just tell Ford you want to supply the parts, or just pay for the diagnosis. Wont take 15 minutes.

[burnz]

use a timing light, aim at your hand.
test each lead for erratic fireing, this removes the guess work.

[jixel 78]

BA got no leads. Coil on plug ignition.

[dave351cid]

Originally Posted by Mr_BA2003

I'm acutally looking into doing this. So it's ok to touch and remove the coil plug (I wiggled it back and forth to remove it) when the car is running? I won't get a shock from doing it?

Been looking on E-Bay. Genuine set for $165. Probably older stock, but should still be fine. I just don't want to go to the trouble of replacing everything then find out that it wasn't the coil / plug in the first place!

I'm avoiding Ford. Giving Grunt Automotive a buzz in the morning. They seem good. Very tempted to have a go myself. back plug is a bugger. Easiest way seems to be using two small 3/8 extensions. I don't have the 3/8 set. What about a small 1/2 drive extention, then the unijoint, followed by the larger one?

sorry i havent replied before... i have been on the road.

i havent had any shocks from touching the coils while the engine is running. you could wear a glove if you want. i just lift the coil off the top of the plug and if the coil is working you can hear the engine change tune . if the coil is not working it will make no difference to the sound of the engine when you lift it out.
i have had some coils that i could see the spark shooting out the side of the coil onto the rocker cover.

i use 2 short 3/8 extentions for the back plug.

[BA-XT]

BUMP!

Just got back from the mechanic. Diagnosed it by doing what was suggested by lifting each of the coils off one by one. The front coil where the water that pooled was.

Replaced all 6 coils and 6 new NKG Iridium spark plugs (I asked for that brand), along with a headlight.

Running better than ever! Total was $388. Nice guy. Can't recommend him highly enough.

[Flatie]

Do u remember the spark plugs u replaced them with

[BA-XT]

Originally Posted by Flatie

Do u remember the spark plugs u replaced them with

Yea NKG. Iridium.... I'll get you the part numbers after tea :-)

[XRtowcar]

You could try the standard Ford plugs.
I went back to them after trying NGK and Bosch, as they were the most reliable.
Think we’re made by Denso.

[BA-XT]

Firstly with over 22,000 views obviously this seems to be a common problem.

Secondly 31 year old me clearly should have put this in the AU-BF Secrion of the forum

Ok so according to the work shop notes:

The first time in 2012 was simply because I doused the rocker cover in water and it leaked through.... so new coils and plugs.

Second time it was diagnosed as same thing and again. And it was my over cleaning again.

Apparently computer threw no codes, but mechanic found a broken coil so all 6 were replaced with better quality ones and I was cooking with LPG at this stage so the NKG Iridium plugs were fitted at the same time.

My PVC valve was replaced with metal because running LPG.
Fuel pressure regulator was checked and was clean.
Said that new TPS may need to be fitted (still same one)

That fixed the problem for around 2 months.


Then just out of the blue I remember it just got so much worse... was similar but was coughing and spluttering really bad. Both on petrol and LPG. Went back and was found that inlet manifold gasket was split at the front so that was replaced and it's been good ever since.

Unfortunately I didn't note the part number for the NKG Iridium plugs, but from memory it's th same as the BA - BF Factory LPG plugs.

Hopefully this can help someone in the future... I know from reading that the inlet gasket isn't always thought of.

[Citroënbender]

That’s all well and good until you have a system which cooks its coil drivers as the spark load approaches infinity.

[Citroënbender]

Do you need a hug?

[happy1]

Hi,
What's all that **** about? Totally agree that it is very bad advice to lift up the coils while the engine is running. The spark will go somewhere, and could 'fry' your PCM, or give you a large shock.

Why not stop the engine, take the connector of coil #1, start engine and observe, then stop engine, put connector 1 back on, remove connector #2, etc. That way you get to do the same test, and not risk anything.

Anyway, if you have FORSCAN or any other OBD scanner, you can read out which cylinder has misfiring.

Also, its almost guaranteed that it is the plugs and coils, and as suggested previously in this thread, just replace them all, 6 new coils and 6 plugs simultaneously.

Cheers,

[BA-XT]

Originally Posted by QUIKXR6T

Mate i just threw brand new GOSS coils in my new BA Turbo Project (while ****ing hot ) within 45 minutes!!!!!!!!!!

Better not ****ing breakdown while under boost/load anymore tmrw!!!!!!!!!!!!

The 'old' trick to finding a mis fire is pull each spark plug lead or coil off the plug until thers NO more misfiring.

Then you know which lead or coil is ****ed/dead!!!!!!!!

And use long pointy nose pliers so you electricute yoiurself with 30,000 volts!!!!!

What the hell??

I had a PM from a guy who was experiencing the same problems I was 7 years ago and decided to answer on my original post to help any other future person with similar issues as clearly it's still a common problem.

Could a moderator please clean this up?

[GASWAGON]

Update...

For Turbo 6's DO NOT use GOSS coils

Alot here have already said to ONLY use Motorcraft/Genuines.

My car today was breaking down/flat spotting under load then misfiring very badly at lights/ idle, even actaully stalled twice aswell.

Returning to Ebay seller asap and ordering Genuines soon.