Unichip vs CAPA Ford Flash Tuner

GXR · 03-01-2008, 08:27 AM

I own a series 3 AU XR6, 5 speed manual, VCT engine. I want to fit extractors, high flow cat, cat back exhaust, larger airbox & computer editing (5 rwkw only). I have been told by several performance centres that I will gain 20 - 25 rwkw.

I would like to get an extra 40-45 rwkw with the engine unopened or using turbo or superchargers. I was thinking about using a UNICHIP or a CAPA FORD FLASH TUNER. I am also wanting to improve low down torque, not just rwkw.

Questions:
1. Is 40-45 rwkw gain (engine unopened) achievable?
2. Is 170 rwkw achievable (engine unopened)?
3. Should I use a Unichip or CAPA Ford Flash Tuner?
4. What other options do I have?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

**Stav** · 03-01-2008, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GXR

I own a series 3 AU XR6, 5 speed manual, VCT engine. I want to fit extractors, high flow cat, cat back exhaust, larger airbox & computer editing (5 rwkw only). I have been told by several performance centres that I will gain 20 - 25 rwkw.

I would like to get an extra 40-45 rwkw with the engine unopened or using turbo or superchargers. I was thinking about using a UNICHIP or a CAPA FORD FLASH TUNER. I am also wanting to improve low down torque, not just rwkw.

Questions:
1. Is 40-45 rwkw gain (engine unopened) achievable?
2. Is 170 rwkw achievable (engine unopened)?
3. Should I use a Unichip or CAPA Ford Flash Tuner?
4. What other options do I have?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

1 40 to 45 is achieveable.
2 no.
3/4 cappa flash tuner is a copout.Why? It is not transferrable to 3 cars as cappa claim.If you modify a car and it relies on the tune to run then it must stay with the car if you sell it.Also you dont have the software and must keep going back to the tuners.That is ok but it can get very expensive.The unichip I would never get again as you are again relying on tuner for your car to be spot on.You dont get the software to touch it up.
Get a different interceptor computer which allows you the freedom to alter the tune.Tunning is very easy to do if your careful.

ratter · 03-01-2008, 10:28 AM

Stav is not quite correct

the Capa flash tuner can be used on upto 5 cars, but it requires the original car to be returned back to stock and the box unloacked by a tuner.

Tuning can be easy for those that know what they are doing, but a untrained can do damage to an engine with a bad tune, their can be a lot more to tuning than just adjusting air fuel ratio and setting timing. The basic aftermarket ECU's do not offer half the control of what the original ECU offers

FGII-XR6 · 03-01-2008, 10:46 AM

Cappa is the go the "chips " you can get are just set and forget but that means no flexibility. you can have 3 tunes for different situations and fuels too .
what Stav says is true in as much as if your mods need the tune to run you must let the flasher go with the car when you sell it or it will not run but that goes for other mods too .
you just have to decide if you want to return the car to relativly standard of leave it modded when you sell

RUKIDN · 03-01-2008, 12:29 PM

Either way if your using a aftermarket computer, capa tuner or other chip your going to have to sell it with the car or remove almost everything that doesnt rely on a tune.

Depending on power your wanting would decide what chip you needed i reckon although nothing wrong with doin it properly the first time, im using a Unichip on my supercharged xr8 and its producing 266rwkw but its detonating, the chip is maxed out meaning the guys cant re-tune it cause its doing the best it can so its being ditched. I was told i can use a flash tuner which will fix the tune and give me a nice increase in power!

RG · 03-01-2008, 02:12 PM

Unichips kill engines

:

**Stav** · 03-01-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratter

Stav is not quite correct

the Capa flash tuner can be used on upto 5 cars, but it requires the original car to be returned back to stock and the box unloacked by a tuner.

Tuning can be easy for those that know what they are doing, but a untrained can do damage to an engine with a bad tune, their can be a lot more to tuning than just adjusting air fuel ratio and setting timing. The basic aftermarket ECU's do not offer half the control of what the original ECU offers

Technically Ratter is correct however...
If I return my car to standard tune it will not idle. It cannot idle without a chip.I therefore cannot keep my cappa tuner but I am forced to sell it with the car in future and have to buy another one.. If you have a standard car or small engine mods that dont require a chip to run then you can return the standard tune and keep the tune box. I am talking about big cams and headwork with regards to my comments.

**Stav** · 03-01-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RUKIDN

Either way if your using a aftermarket computer, capa tuner or other chip your going to have to sell it with the car or remove almost everything that doesnt rely on a tune.

Depending on power your wanting would decide what chip you needed i reckon although nothing wrong with doin it properly the first time, im using a Unichip on my supercharged xr8 and its producing 266rwkw but its detonating, the chip is maxed out meaning the guys cant re-tune it cause its doing the best it can so its being ditched. I was told i can use a flash tuner which will fix the tune and give me a nice increase in power!

Your tuner or chip sounds faulty mate.

The Monty · 03-01-2008, 04:45 PM

Id say CAPA flash for the win.
I knocked off .501 with just it alone, nothing else.
I swear it felt no faster to drive, but when I took it to the track, I was massively impressed. Also, my fuel economy is still great, I get over 700k's to a tank on the highway, and 580 around the street.

RG · 03-01-2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

Your tuner or chip sounds faulty mate.

No I'd say the chip is at its limits. The Unichip struggled to run my stroker when it was first built, nothing to do with the tuner at all. Unichips have serious limitations that can be found quite easily.

Sox · 03-01-2008, 06:39 PM

I'm with Stav on this, the chips/flash mentioned are weak IMO, not because of the tunes they provide, but the user adjustability they don't provide.

The spiel the installers preach about backyarders damaging engines because of a lack of know how is just rot. Go back 20 years ago, and the average backyard tinkerer could change jets, powervalves, acc pump, change static timing, recurve dizzies, etc.
Little has changed with respect to those parameters, however now it's all of a sudden taboo for the backyarder.

The only reason why it's taboo is because the tuners wouldn't be able to cash up as much as they do now if backyarders did their own tinkering.

As far as the backyarder actually doing damage, so what?! Those people were doing damage back then, and the same people will find a way to do damage now.

Smart people know what to do, and they would like the opportunity to do it, though these boxes don't allow it. We're at the mercy of the shop tuners, who are quite often no better than the backyard tinkerer anyhow.

I also agree with him with regards to having the stupid things locked to a vehicle, that's just a blatant con job.

Rick.

EvilChief · 03-01-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GXR

I own a series 3 AU XR6, 5 speed manual, VCT engine. I want to fit extractors, high flow cat, cat back exhaust, larger airbox & computer editing (5 rwkw only). I have been told by several performance centres that I will gain 20 - 25 rwkw.

I would like to get an extra 40-45 rwkw with the engine unopened or using turbo or superchargers. I was thinking about using a UNICHIP or a CAPA FORD FLASH TUNER. I am also wanting to improve low down torque, not just rwkw.

Questions:
1. Is 40-45 rwkw gain (engine unopened) achievable?
2. Is 170 rwkw achievable (engine unopened)?
3. Should I use a Unichip or CAPA Ford Flash Tuner?
4. What other options do I have?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

1. easily
2. not likely, however once you get a more aggressive cam and head ported it is possible
3.Flash Tuner, we tune Falcons day in day out with the flashers without a hitch, go to a reputable tuner, who knows what they are doing. there is a certain procedure that mus be followed when the ecu gets flashed, also the autherized tuners can programs a custom tune specific for your engine and modifications. generic tunes are not worth while IMO
4. Cam, head porting, blue printing, High comp pistons, lightened flywheel

**Stav** · 03-01-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedXR347

No I'd say the chip is at its limits. The Unichip struggled to run my stroker when it was first built, nothing to do with the tuner at all. Unichips have serious limitations that can be found quite easily.

I have to disagree on piggybacks being too limited mate.I have gone down these roads and paid for it.I dont know about unichip but piggybacks generally can and will run most configurations.It seems to me that tuners cant seem to be able to add enough fuel or reduce fuel ratios because they lack the know how to do it. If a chip cant richen up injectors then your injectors or fuel system may be maxxed. I was reading about nudge and his problems with his supercharged au.It is running dangerously lean.Why did they not change the maps sensor to 2 bar ?This would cater for his boost.Why didnt they throw in even bigger injectors?It raises alot of questions about tuning capabilties of some places.

Redxr347 I like your posts mate but why couldnt the unchiop run you 347?Did it run too lean or rich?
Sox you are spot on.

EvilChief · 03-01-2008, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

I have to disagree on piggybacks being too limited mate.I have gone down these roads and paid for it.I dont know about unichip but piggybacks generally can and will run most configurations.It seems to me that tuners cant seem to be able to add enough fuel or reduce fuel ratios because they lack the know how to do it. If a chip cant richen up injectors then your injectors or fuel system may be maxxed. I was reading about nudge and his problems with his supercharged au.It is running dangerously lean.Why did they not change the maps sensor to 2 bar ?This would cater for his boost.Why didnt they throw in even bigger injectors?It raises alot of questions about tuning capabilties of some places.

Redxr347 I like your posts mate but why couldnt the unchiop run you 347?Did it run too lean or rich?
Sox you are spot on.

because a piggy back chip cannot accomodate for a 2bar map sensor

a piggy back system can only alter injector timing and ignition timing. that timing again is still limited by the max values of the std ecu. that is what is meant by being limited. a chip does not invoke a new fuel or timing map, it only alters the signals send to the ecu to read from alternative reagions of the fuel and ignition map in the std ecu, than it would with the actual sensor readings.

these systems may work well, if an NA engine is getting retuned for NA modifications, or SC engines for SC alterations, etc, however changinbg an NA engine to a charged engine, will require more than a piggy back system (i am talking from experience)

**Stav** · 03-01-2008, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilChief

because a piggy back chip cannot accomodate for a 2bar map sensor

a piggy back system can only alter injector timing and ignition timing. that timing again is still limited by the max values of the std ecu. that is what is meant by being limited. a chip does not invoke a new fuel or timing map, it only alters the signals send to the ecu to read from alternative reagions of teh fuel and ignition map in the std ecu, than it would with the actualsensor readings

Evil chief..I know that a haltech interceptor does accomodate for boost.With this piggyback I should be able to throw in 30psi of boost if I want in theory.

RG · 03-01-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

I have to disagree on piggybacks being too limited mate.I have gone down these roads and paid for it.I dont know about unichip but piggybacks generally can and will run most configurations.It seems to me that tuners cant seem to be able to add enough fuel or reduce fuel ratios because they lack the know how to do it. If a chip cant richen up injectors then your injectors or fuel system may be maxxed. I was reading about nudge and his problems with his supercharged au.It is running dangerously lean.Why did they not change the maps sensor to 2 bar ?This would cater for his boost.Why didnt they throw in even bigger injectors?It raises alot of questions about tuning capabilties of some places.

Redxr347 I like your posts mate but why couldnt the unchiop run you 347?Did it run too lean or rich?
Sox you are spot on.

It wouldn't idle properly and would die every so often, it also ran rich at idle but leaned right out at max torque in the middle of the rev range. G&D did the tuning and spent ages on it but just couldn't get it right, on the other hand they tuned Whoosha's XR and we all know the times that he has run so it is nothing to do with the tuner. Also on hot days it would run like a pig, to the point of not wanting to take it out if it was over 35 degrees. Fuel system is the same now as it was then and it runs more power now than it ever did with the Unichip. Unichip was good in it's day but that day has long passed.

EvilChief · 03-01-2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

Evil chief..I know that a haltech interceptor does accomodate for boost.

yes if the intercepted map sensor accomodates for boost too and the ecu does, if you bolt a turbo on teh side and throw teh interceptor at it, it will still have issues. i had fewer issues in terms of fuel tuning, however the interceptor was not capable to take enough timing out to eliminate pinging

**Stav** · 03-01-2008, 07:34 PM

I have no prob with g&d .Those blokes are alright. If the car ran rich at idle it means that enough fuel was not taken out of the fuel table at idle to allow the ego sensor to work and control air fuel ratios.If you are running a big cam it still should have idled.If the car ran out of fuel in the midrange then why werent bigger injectors used?

**Stav** · 03-01-2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilChief

yes if the intercepted map sensor accomodates for boost too and the ecu does, if you bolt a turbo on teh side and throw teh interceptor at it, it will still have issues. i had fewer issues in terms of fuel tuning, however the interceptor was not capable to take enough timing out to eliminate pinging

Fair enough mate.Was it definately not enough timing control or were the air fuel ratios too lean ?

Walkinshaw · 03-01-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

The only reason why it's taboo is because the tuners wouldn't be able to cash up as much as they do now if backyarders did their own tinkering.

130% correct. The flash tuners are a joke. For the price they should

BA-BF - Come with the full software & unlimited vehicle capability
EA-AU - Come with full software & a J3 chip burning facility.

RG · 03-01-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

I have no prob with g&d .Those blokes are alright. If the car ran rich at idle it means that enough fuel was not taken out of the fuel table at idle to allow the ego sensor to work and control air fuel ratios.If you are running a big cam it still should have idled.If the car ran out of fuel in the midrange then why werent bigger injectors used?

The car died for god knows what reason, the cam is only a baby. Injectors were thought of but I decided to go the Flash tune and that sorted all the problems, plenty of fuel now. They also said if they gave it more fuel in the midrange they would lose the ability to adjust some other parameters which would make things worse. I do have 11:1 compression so that is also a factor.

**Stav** · 03-01-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedXR347

The car died for god knows what reason, the cam is only a baby. Injectors were thought of but I decided to go the Flash tune and that sorted all the problems, plenty of fuel now. They also said if they gave it more fuel in the midrange they would lose the ability to adjust some other parameters which would make things worse. I do have 11:1 compression so that is also a factor.

Thats good mate. I am just learning ,playing with interceptors at the moment for fun as a hobby. I have learnt quite alot but still learning. It does appear that the edit has much more control than a piggyback it is just car fanatics like myself wouldnt mind to have the ability to tune a little.It gets tiring having to back to get adjustments made which I could do myself.

EvilChief · 03-01-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

Fair enough mate.Was it definately not enough timing control or were the air fuel ratios too lean ?

12:1 and that was me leaning it off, i started with 10 (bigger injectors), it was def timing

**Stav** · 03-01-2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilChief

12:1 and that was me leaning it off, i started with 10 (bigger injectors), it was def timing

So did the timing map value go to -14? Did you try colder plugs?

EvilChief · 03-01-2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

Thats good mate. I am just learning ,playing with interceptors at the moment for fun as a hobby. I have learnt quite a but still learning. It does appear that the edit has much more control than a piggyback it is just car fanatics like myself wouldnt mind to have the ability to tune a little.It gets tiring having to back to get adjustments made which I could do myself.

i have the chance to tune both at work, i like the flash tuner, simply due to teh fact that we can take the std fuel and ignition map (or formula in BA series) and go from there. that means we can retain all the little nibble things, like cold start, idle up, etc etc. saves a lot of time, plus ford has spend thousand of hours just to get those things right for us, so may as well use it.

On a personal note i have never been the biggest fan of the interceptors all together simply due to the fact, that your are still limited by the stock ecu (to a degree never the less), you cannot accomodate effectively for boost (on an NA system). having said that, what i do like is teh ease of installation (about 1h) and the setup, which si quick and easy, and it also retains the nibbly things such as cold start etc (unless that is what you want to change, which you cannot with and interceptor). I rekon they are great for tuning for head porting, cam changes, high comp pistons, etc, or for boost increases in turbo charged vehicles.

EvilChief · 03-01-2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

So did the timing map value go to -14? Did you try colder plugs?

-16 and went through 3 sets of plugs

there were other factors, which i wasnt told about, which complicated matters, but thats a diff story

**Stav** · 03-01-2008, 08:00 PM

I think the new sniper software will give us extreme enthusuasits alot more freedom mate.You are right in a way.Big cams really need the ego switched off at certain values to assist in maintaining the correct air fuel ratios for that particular combination at idle .

EvilChief · 03-01-2008, 08:02 PM

lol dont get me started on big cams and idle plz ... spend 3h just getting idle right on a V8 last year ... finally got it snmooth at 1400 ... lol

**Stav** · 03-01-2008, 08:05 PM

Yep some cars need different than stociometric ratios to idle for sure!!

RG · 03-01-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

I think the new sniper software will give us extreme enthusuasits alot more freedom mate.You are right in a way.Big cams really need the ego switched off at certain values to assist in maintaining the correct air fuel ratios for that particular combination at idle .

I was about to mention the sniper software, looks the goods if it really is as user friendly as it says. I know a few blokes with WRX's and the like and they all swear by their own street tuning with hand helds.