EV Focus battery replacement would cost more than the car itself

[Sprintey]

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology...ore-car-itself

OK, the link is red meat for the carnivores... How accurate is this a picture of the future when EVs become the trashed cars on the 2nd hand market?

Focus EV in the US would probably be a Ford EU product, so parts might be tough to get there? Or was Focus EV produced locally there, and there should be legacy batteries for it? Or has battery tech moved on, and it is like an iPhone 4 now?

Are most EV's replacement batteries easily available, is there a cutoff date for 'support' (ie production)? How are the used batteries recycled? I know the Toyota hybrid battery replacements are of reasonable cost after about 8 years or so ($2000+?)

I'm also interested to see if old mate Tony Seba's prediction of mass-uptake takes place, affordable EV by 2023, and this follows the S curve of adoption.

Do all the supply chain SNAFUs put this shift back a bit? Or will ICE remain on scene for a while longer, justifying spends like Mazda's?

Anyway enough questions, I put it to the AFF brains trust...

[Yellow_Festiva]

Until all manufacturers come together and agree on a standardised battery system this will always be the case.

We have that in small devices for decades.

Now just need the EV situation to follow. That way it opens the market to competition for replacement and refurbishment options and will assist the eventual 'swap and go' scenario to work.

[Vesper Martini]

Yep like buying a used batter drill - only a bit more expensive.

PS love your work

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Until all manufacturers come together and agree on a standardised battery system this will always be the case.

We have that in small devices for decades.

Now just need the EV situation to follow. That way it opens the market to competition for replacement and refurbishment options and will assist the eventual 'swap and go' scenario to work.

Your idea is good though I dunno, every power tool company uses their own Battery, Apple refuses to use Micro USB, software is never compatible.

it would take some serious dictatorship to have the car companies all aligned.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Your idea is good though I dunno, every power tool company uses their own Battery, Apple refuses to use Micro USB, software is never compatible.

it would take some serious dictatorship to have the car companies all aligned.

True, however (I believe) you can buy an adapter to share a battery between brands.

Same with wires and plugs. Yes, there are several different types but an adapter is easy to use.

Not possible with EV's. And from what I understand some EV's have a chip or some sort of electronic signature only available from the manufacturer so even if you tried to replace a battery yourself or rebuild it it will not work.

I'm of the opinion that for EV's to truly become an alternative to IC cars then we need to forget about rapid chargers and look at starting to convert petrol stations to battery swap stations where you pay per KW and can drive in and out within a few minutes after an automated process removes your drained battery from the car and replaces it with something that has more juice.

Much like the BBQ gas bottles.

This will solve the range problems, battery replacement problems and charging when on the road problems.

The technology already exists - manufacturers just need to come to an agreement on a standardised battery sizes and placements on the vehicle.

[Vesper Martini]

The battery banks are simply too big to do a quick swap were talking hundreds of kilos. and they are fitted low in the vehicle so no easy access. way too hard

plus the cycle of recharging them would never keep up.

to note quick charges have already been showing it shortens battery life

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology...ore-car-itself

OK, the link is red meat for the carnivores... How accurate is this a picture of the future when EVs become the trashed cars on the 2nd hand market?

Focus EV in the US would probably be a Ford EU product, so parts might be tough to get there? Or was Focus EV produced locally there, and there should be legacy batteries for it? Or has battery tech moved on, and it is like an iPhone 4 now?

Are most EV's replacement batteries easily available, is there a cutoff date for 'support' (ie production)? How are the used batteries recycled? I know the Toyota hybrid battery replacements are of reasonable cost after about 8 years or so ($2000+?)

I'm also interested to see if old mate Tony Seba's prediction of mass-uptake takes place, affordable EV by 2023, and this follows the S curve of adoption.

Do all the supply chain SNAFUs put this shift back a bit? Or will ICE remain on scene for a while longer, justifying spends like Mazda's?

Anyway enough questions, I put it to the AFF brains trust...

Focus EV was a US build for the US market. Europe has never had an EV Focus.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

The battery banks are simply too big to do a quick swap were talking hundreds of kilos. and they are fitted low in the vehicle so no easy access. way too hard

plus the cycle of recharging them would never keep up.

to note quick charges have already been showing it shortens battery life

They already do it in china. Takes about 5 mins with robots doing the work. But manufacturers would need a global standard for it to catch on and become common place.

https://www.theautopian.com/china-is...know-about-it/

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Until all manufacturers come together and agree on a standardised battery system this will always be the case.

We have that in small devices for decades.

Now just need the EV situation to follow. That way it opens the market to competition for replacement and refurbishment options and will assist the eventual 'swap and go' scenario to work.

Bingo, got it in one, the light vehicle industry isn't exactly known for its willingness to standardise though, look at all the various implementations of CAN that they all use their own version.

Commercial vehicle industry are much more willing to adopt standards and stick to them across the board.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They already do it in china. Takes about 5 mins with robots doing the work. But manufacturers would need a global standard for it to catch on and become common place.

https://www.theautopian.com/china-is...know-about-it/

That's Interesting but its still one of those coming in 2025 - but the car companies are still developing it...

cant see us driving the "Chery Riich G5 EV" either

[Franco Cozzo]

Unless battery technology improves exponentially for energy density and with that they become much cheaper then EV's are going to stay an expensive proposition out of the hands of the average punter.

At the moment they're promoted by everyone other than Tesla because it gives them credits or some crap 'on paper' to offset their more profitable vehicle lines like the F150 for example.

I'm all for EVs, just when is one going to be in that $20,000-$30,000 micro/small car segment, one that doesn't only have a 200km range and what second hand EV are Generation Alpha going to buy when they get their P plates

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Focus EV was a US build for the US market. Europe has never had an EV Focus.

Yes they did, Focus EV was built at Cologne, the E Max was going to use the same drive
and battery pack before Farley and Hackett stepped and changed it into Mach E.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

That's Interesting but its still one of those coming in 2025 - but the car companies are still developing it...

cant see us driving the "Chery Riich G5 EV" either

Yeah it works for china. I doubt we will see it here though.

I think these sheetbox Chery's are coming back to australia soon. I wonder if people remember them being chock full of asbestos gaskets, and them falling apart with low km, or will people remain blissfully ignorant and still buy them?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Bingo, got it in one, the light vehicle industry isn't exactly known for its willingness to standardise though, look at all the various implementations of CAN that they all use their own version.

Commercial vehicle industry are much more willing to adopt standards and stick to them across the board.

I don't think standardization would be possible, because all vehicles have different dimensions and placements of components. It's just not feasible imo.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yeah it works for china. I doubt we will see it here though.

I think these sheetbox Chery's are coming back to australia soon. I wonder if people remember them being chock full of asbestos gaskets, and them falling apart with low km, or will people remain blissfully ignorant and still buy them?

Chuck an MG badge on it or maybe Austin? and they will sell like hotcakes

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I don't think standardization would be possible, because all vehicles have different dimensions and placements of components. It's just not feasible imo.

Problem is that many manufacturers make their batteries fit the car instead of the other way around,
they should be developing the skateboard and then the top hat to fit what’s underneath.
If that were done, you could probably get battery swap ‘n go set up for three or four battery sizes.

[Vesper Martini]

memories - I used to race a Tamiya remote control car I had 4 Nicad battery packs all needed a slow charge to get the most out of them there was always one battery better than the others

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Problem is that many manufacturers make their batteries fit the car instead of the other way around,
they should be developing the skateboard and then the top hat to fit what’s underneath.
If that were done, you could probably get battery swap ‘n go set up for three or four battery sizes.

Try getting all the manufacturers to agree to the sizes though. Fat chance.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I don't think standardization would be possible, because all vehicles have different dimensions and placements of components. It's just not feasible imo.

Not the physical size of the battery but the technology used, charging standards, interfaces et al.

[GasoLane]

Most of you have probably seen this old 'Advert' but for those that haven't................. the short version

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

True, however (I believe) you can buy an adapter to share a battery between brands.

Same with wires and plugs. Yes, there are several different types but an adapter is easy to use.

Not possible with EV's. And from what I understand some EV's have a chip or some sort of electronic signature only available from the manufacturer so even if you tried to replace a battery yourself or rebuild it it will not work.

I'm of the opinion that for EV's to truly become an alternative to IC cars then we need to forget about rapid chargers and look at starting to convert petrol stations to battery swap stations where you pay per KW and can drive in and out within a few minutes after an automated process removes your drained battery from the car and replaces it with something that has more juice.

Much like the BBQ gas bottles.

This will solve the range problems, battery replacement problems and charging when on the road problems.

The technology already exists - manufacturers just need to come to an agreement on a standardised battery sizes and placements on the vehicle.

Last time I did a swap and go for BBQ gas, they gave me the wrong key, it was for the fishing bate fridge, and then when I fixed that, I had to go through two shelves of bottles to find the last one was full...

[Vesper Martini]

was thinking hypothetically about the a battery swap system.
It would need to be automated the batteries are way too heavy
the cars would need to be adapted so the battery would drop out from underneath with a sort of conveyer system where the batteries are then replaced from underneath.

Imagine the costs involved the automated setup, the stock holding of batteries, the freeking power bill to be charging all the time it would need its own substation.

This would all come at such a cost filling up with Petrol at $2 per liter will be comparatively cheap

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Not the physical size of the battery but the technology used, charging standards, interfaces et al.

They can't even agree to what kind of charging plug to use ffs. And then there are all the different charging speeds they use. They will never work together to commonize.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They can't even agree to what kind of charging plug to use ffs. And then there are all the different charging speeds they use. They will never work together to commonize.

I know right, sounds like we're both onto this

[Sprintey]

Great replies. The only solution seems to be to make the battery of a substance that can easily take the shape of many different dimensions and is easily and quickly put into the car. Make it... a... liquid

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Great replies. The only solution seems to be to make the battery of a substance that can easily take the shape of many different dimensions and is easily and quickly put into the car. Make it... a... liquid

Quicksilver, you reckon.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Try getting all the manufacturers to agree to the sizes though. Fat chance.

I think it’s inevitable that things like the skateboard will become like a supplier based item
while the top hat will become manufacturer’s symbol of differentiation. We don’t see this yet
but it’s probably the next evolutionary phase coming after the great BEV shakeout.