Multipoint V8 tickford fairlane??

SVT8 · 08-03-2007, 07:38 PM

Well today at my tafe i came across a guy driving a NL fairlane and it was a really nice car. It was midnight blue, anyway i had a quick chat to this guy and it turns out that his car was a 195kw (gt spec) tickford fairlane? i have never heard or seen any of these models before, so i just did a quick search now and this is what i found. oh by the way anyone own one of these models??

http://blog.funtrivia.com/blogs/arch...irlane-41.html

What im interested in, is that the specs on the website state that the V8 engine is multi-point fuel injected? is this true? Im pretty sure the stock 165kw EFI windsor's arnt multi-point, or are they??

regards

70caprigt3k · 08-03-2007, 07:42 PM

I cant speak for the us windsor but from day one any aussie efi windsor has been multi-point.

LUXO_8 · 08-03-2007, 07:44 PM

yup....always sequential electronic fuel injected - SEFI (fires the exact injector as its needed)

Allen · 08-03-2007, 07:44 PM

That would be an FBT (Fairlane By Tickford) It should of had an EF Fairmont style grille with a chrome mesh insert, two tone cappa leather, and 6 spoke CSA styled mags... I want one....

All e series V8s are called Multipoint Injected, but that is not entirely true.

Between idle and around 1500rpm, the injectors fire sequentially, following the engines fireing order.
But above 1500rpm, the injectors start batch firing, which pretty much means they all fire at the same time continually.
Getting up in the rev range near red line, all of the injectors stay open all the time.

SVT8 · 08-03-2007, 07:56 PM

ahh thanks for your responses. Just checked the car manual, it does show the V8 as SEFI. Although alot of reference's i have seen just states the engine as EFI, with no S in front though.

Dezza · 08-03-2007, 07:58 PM

I'd love an FBT. They are easily the most desirable of the e-series based LWBs

NudgE^SIKBRO · 08-03-2007, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ea_silver_ghia

I'd love an FBT. They are easily the most desirable of the e-series based LWBs

Not quite Dezza... Think Black... Think LTD... Think HO... Now tell me theres a LWB E Series ya wouldnt want more

Dezza · 08-03-2007, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NudgE^SIKBRO

Not quite Dezza... Think Black... Think LTD... Think HO... Now tell me theres a LWB E Series ya wouldnt want more

LOL. Forgot about Wayne's car! lol. I should have said most desirable of the FACTORY e-series based LWBs

XR_Lightning · 09-03-2007, 03:31 PM

I just saw one of these cars in Dandenong about 1/2 an hour ago, plates were tick24

Allen · 09-03-2007, 03:41 PM

I spotted a Navy FBT in Craigieburn today on the way to work... possibly the same one the SVT8 had seen...

I want one!

LTDHO · 09-03-2007, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NudgE^SIKBRO

Not quite Dezza... Think Black... Think LTD... Think HO... Now tell me theres a LWB E Series ya wouldnt want more

Thankls DJ SIKBRO!!

Dezza should have known better!!

I'd love to own a FBT

JC · 09-03-2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fairlane_ghia

That would be an FBT (Fairlane By Tickford) It should of had an EF Fairmont style grille with a chrome mesh insert, two tone cappa leather, and 6 spoke CSA styled mags... I want one....

All e series V8s are called Multipoint Injected, but that is not entirely true.

Between idle and around 1500rpm, the injectors fire sequentially, following the engines fireing order.
But above 1500rpm, the injectors start batch firing, which pretty much means they all fire at the same time continually.
Getting up in the rev range near red line, all of the injectors stay open all the time.

What wouyld be the point of that? Where di you get that info from. So while number 1 cylinder is firing, no8 injector is filling cylinder 8? For what purpose?

Psycho Chicken · 09-03-2007, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

What wouyld be the point of that? Where di you get that info from. So while number 1 cylinder is firing, no8 injector is filling cylinder 8? For what purpose?

The timing difference in firing is so small at those revs it's not worth it.

VN-VR V6 engines are grouped fire through out the rev range.

mcflux · 09-03-2007, 07:39 PM

So what about the MPFI/BBM sixes? Do they fire individually through the rev range?

Allen · 09-03-2007, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

What wouyld be the point of that? Where di you get that info from. So while number 1 cylinder is firing, no8 injector is filling cylinder 8? For what purpose?

Basically the electronics cannot keep up with the engine.

At 5000rpm, combustion (and thus the intake stroke and an injector firing) will take place 2500 times in that one minute across all 8 cylinders.

Thats the injectors firing 41.666 times per second, divide that by the number of injectors and you will find that at 5000rpm, one injector will have to open and close 5.208 times per second. Keep in mind that it has to stay open long enough to deliver the required amount of fuel, This is called the pulse width.

The pulse width simply cannot keep up, so they either fire all injectors at the same time(Batch firing), or in the case of 5000rpm, the injector will stay open constantly.

At idle and lower engine speeds the computer is able to open and close the injectors fast enough to run sequentially.
For example at idle (800rpm in my case) each injector only has to fire 0.416 times per second. So obviously its much easier to keep track of.

If you listen carefully, you can the change in the exhaust note when it changes from sequential to batch.

My dad runs his own EFi computers and software on racecars and a few street cars... these are the basic things that must be set up when tuning these things, so you need to know how the computer is able to control the injectors.

I hope that clears up sequential & batch injection a little bit...

Psycho Chicken · 09-03-2007, 08:20 PM

There's something wrong with your maths there.

At 800 RPM the engine is turning over 13.33 times per seconds, that's 6.66 intake strokes per cylinder, certainly not .416.

Allen · 09-03-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

There's something wrong with your maths there.

At 800 RPM the engine is turning over 13.33 times per seconds, that's 6.66 intake strokes per cylinder, certainly not .416.

Sorry, you are correct there, it is actually the injector firing 0.833 per second.

800/2
=400

400/60
=6.66

6.66/8
=8.33

Psycho Chicken · 09-03-2007, 08:27 PM

You're still dividing idle firing by 8?

Allen · 09-03-2007, 08:38 PM

lol, its been a long day, im applying batch formula to seqential...

IIRC it should be
800/2
=400 combustion cycles per minute

400/8
=50 combustion cycles per cylinder per minute

50/60
=8.33 combustion cycles per cylinder per second

All the numbers add up to 8.33, no matter how its worked.

Im dividing idle firing by 8 as I am only focusing on 1 injector, rather than all 8.

Walkinshaw · 09-03-2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fairlane_ghia

lol, its been a long day, im applying batch formula to seqential...

IIRC it should be
800/2
=400 combustion cycles per minute

400/8
=50 combustion cycles per cylinder per minute

50/60
=8.33 combustion cycles per cylinder per second

All the numbers add up to 8.33, no matter how its worked.

Im dividing idle firing by 8 as I am only focusing on 1 injector, rather than all 8.

Erm, no.

800rpm is not 800 firing strokes per minute.....800rpm in a 4stroke 4cyl is 1600combustion reactions, where as in a 8cyl 3200combustion reactions.

800rpm = 400 intake strokes per cylinder (V8)

= 400/60
= 6.7 intake strokes per second.

Why are you dividing by 8? It doesnt matter if its a 1cyl or 200cyl engine.

Allen · 09-03-2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

Erm, no.

800rpm is not 800 firing strokes per minute.....800rpm in a 4stroke 4cyl is 1600combustion reactions, where as in a 8cyl 3200combustion reactions.

800rpm = 400 intake strokes per cylinder (V8)

= 400/60
= 6.7 intake strokes per second.

Why are you dividing by 8? It doesnt matter if its a 1cyl or 200cyl engine.

Read my post...

"800/2
=400 combustion cycles per minute"

Nowhere did I say that there were 800 firing strokes per minute.

And I am dividing by 8, as I am talking about the injector pulse width of one (1) injector out of the eight in total, not the total amount of combustion strokes per second.

Believe it or not, I do under stand the concepts behind the humble four stroke engine cycle, this discussion was to explain why the ECU can fire the injectors sequentially at low speeds and not at high RPM, not about the number of combustion strokes per second at any given rotational velocity.

Walkinshaw · 09-03-2007, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fairlane_ghia

Read my post...

"800/2
=400 combustion cycles per minute"

Nowhere did I say that there were 800 firing strokes per minute.

And I am dividing by 8, as I am talking about the injector pulse width of one (1) injector out of the eight in total, not the total amount of combustion strokes per second.

Believe it or not, I do under stand the concepts behind the humble four stroke engine cycle, this discussion was to explain why the ECU can fire the injectors sequentially at low speeds and not at high RPM, not about the number of combustion strokes per second at any given rotational velocity.

Why by 8 though? The number of cylinders/injectors(assuming 1 injector per cylinder) in a motor has absolutly no relationship to the injector pulse width required.(assuming constant Ci and VE% for each cylinder)

50 combustion reactions per cylinder per minute is only an engine speed of 100rpm........

Back on Topic.

You're on the money regarding the switching of sequential to batch fire as RPM increases.

Aaron_EF8 · 10-03-2007, 01:36 AM

Do E-Series V8's even use individually timed injector pulses at all? I know AU I6's do, but as far as I was aware, E-Series V8's simply had the capability to be SEFI, but the injectors act as banked the whole time.

The biggest advantage of SEFI that I can see is the self test mode, where the ECU drops one cyl at a time, and notes if there is no drop in RPM when a certain cylinder was cut from fuel. On a heavily cammed car it would help idle if it was tuned properly.

Quote:

The pulse width simply cannot keep up, so they either fire all injectors at the same time(Batch firing), or in the case of 5000rpm, the injector will stay open constantly.

Weather or not the injector can 'keep up' has nothing to do with how the other injectors are fired. You'll find virtually every ECU can control pulse widths to 0.1% or better, so there isn't a problem with timing.