Bad press for Toyota and Lexus........something different

[monaroCountry]

Toyota models rank at bottom of crash-safety study
Tribune Wire Services
By Greg Bensinger
Bloomberg News


-Toyota Motor Corp., whose vehicles earn top marks for buyer satisfaction, has more models than any other automaker ranked at the bottom of a crash-protection study.

-Toyota and its Lexus division accounted for nine of 16 vehicles with "acceptable," "marginal" or "poor" rear- impact protection, lowering their overall rating, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety said today.

-A "poor" grade predicts serious or possibly fatal injuries in front-end and side collision tests performed at 40 miles an hour, while a "good" rating predicts a lower risk of serious injury, said Russ Rader, an institute spokesman.

-Passengers in vehicles with "poor" rear-collision ratings are "much more likely" to sustain neck injuries compared with people riding in "good" vehicles, Rader said.

[Boss 290]

and you wonder why toyota sell more cars. i am yet to see a toyota better built then my falcon, they look plain jane, they lack grunt, they are front wheel drive and now they are dangerous in an accident. but what keeps them ahead? the constant assumption that falcons and commodores still guzzle fuel compared to the camery. it uses 0.5 less fuel over the 100. for that small saving of fuel, you have a car inferior to any ba/bf falcon 6. ford need to send the message out

[XR8putts]

But then you have cars like the Toyota Avensis which is amongst the safest in the world..

[Poetic Justice]

That's an American article... and the US have a lot of different models to what we get.

The Yaris is one of the first small cars to receive a 5star rating with NCAP (or whatever it is)... the Corolla is quite obviously a safe car....

I'd like to know what models scored low in regard to which of these are built in the same location as ANY of the cars we receive in AUS.

and Boss290 I think maybe once or twice in your life you should open your other eye hey, every post you make is bias.

[Cooper69S]

Originally Posted by blackout

and Boss290 I think maybe once or twice in your life you should open your other eye hey, every post you make is bias.

yeah but it is a ford forum... if you can't be biased here then where can you? :hihi:

[uranium_death]

A Corolla is safe across the class, but a Falcon is far safer as it is larger, roomier and heavier.

A Corolla gets hit by a mosquito and it rolls. (j/k)

FALCON!

[Boss 290]

yeh ill admit i am abit biased but i like ford too much to think that a toyota could be better then a falcon. ill open my eyes once in a while and admit that some comodore models may be better then some falcon models but the current toyota is nowhere near better then the current falcons

[Steffo]

And people wonder why I say Toyota, and Japanese cars in general, are heaps of you know what.

Thanks all the same, I don't want a car made of paper thin cheapo metals "protecting," me.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by blackout

That's an American article... and the US have a lot of different models to what we get.

They also have stricter crash and emissions testing for new cars then we do.

[Homer1]

Originally Posted by Steffo

And people wonder why I say Toyota, and Japanese cars in general, are heaps of you know what.

Thanks all the same, I don't want a car made of paper thin cheapo metals "protecting," me.

That's your opinion......the facts, test evidence, sales stats, and market trends show otherwise!!

Also the resale values show that they are in hot demand 2nd hand as well. Why is this? Because they are well made, economical and reliable! Yes some are bland, but that is veryquickly changing. Out of the top 10 resale value cars in the US, 7 are Japanese. In the bottom 10, all are AMERICAN!

http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.as...tentid=4024366


BTW, The Camry (I don't like Camrys BTW) was awarded Motor Trends COTY this year and the Civic was thier COTY last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_T...ar_of_the_Year

Car and Drivers Top 10 for each year has been dominated by Honda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_and_Driver_Ten_Best

So hate Japansese cars all you like, but like I said the facts show otherwise! :SaiyanSmi

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Homer1

That's your opinion......the facts, test evidence, sales stats, and market trends show otherwise!!

Also the resale values show that they are in hot demand 2nd hand as well. Why is this? Because they are well made, economical and reliable! Yes some are bland, but that is veryquickly changing. Out of the top 10 resale value cars in the US, 7 are Japanese. In the bottom 10, all are AMERICAN!

http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.as...tentid=4024366


BTW, The Camry (I don't like Camrys BTW) was awarded Motor Trends COTY this year and the Civic was thier COTY last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_T...ar_of_the_Year

Car and Drivers Top 10 for each year has been dominated by Honda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_and_Driver_Ten_Best

So hate Japansese cars all you like, but like I said the facts show otherwise! :SaiyanSmi

Right. That's why when my Fiesta got rear ended by a late 80s Charade, then the Charade got hit by a late 90s Camry (2 shapes behind the newest one), they BOTH got written off and my car needed a new bumper. A plastic bumper.

That's why the Toyota Avalon they put on as a cab, on trial at the base my dad drives for went from being a brand new car to literally falling to pieces in 8 months, spent most of its time off the road being fixed, so the owner took a hit, got rid of it and replaced it with a BA.

That's why my cousin's Honda Civic 1.5 hatch (an early 90s one, the roundy shape) is falling to pieces. And her dad's a mechanic, its not poorly maintained. Every time I go to their house, something new is broken on the car. The electronics barely work, the engine sounds like its in pain and it hasn't even done that many k's.

I could go on and on and on.

[Quicklier]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Right. That's why when my Fiesta got rear ended by a late 80s Charade, then the Charade got hit by a late 90s Camry (2 shapes behind the newest one), they BOTH got written off and my car needed a new bumper. A plastic bumper.

So because they're written off, they're unsafe?
I think you should read up on what a crumple zone is and why it's there.
It's pretty simple physics.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Quicklier

So because they're written off, they're unsafe?
I think you should read up on what a crumple zone is and why it's there.
It's pretty simple physics.

With the speed of the impact and such, the fact it was written off is actually scary.

Go to youtube and look up some crash test vids. 90% of the Toyota ones I saw the driver's head ends up out the window....

The two best cars I saw on there were the LR Focus and MkV Golf. The Focus actually is surprisingly good. They're all NCAP vids, so its done at 40mph (64.4km/h) head on.

[tbearz]

Originally Posted by Steffo

With the speed of the impact and such, the fact it was written off is actually scary.

Go to youtube and look up some crash test vids. 90% of the Toyota ones I saw the driver's head ends up out the window....

The two best cars I saw on there were the LR Focus and MkV Golf. The Focus actually is surprisingly good. They're all NCAP vids, so its done at 40mph (64.4km/h) head on.

Classic steffo.....

If you want a safe car buy french and if toyota's are soooooo unsafe why hasn't there been a massive recall like the ford bronco. You'd think seeing there are more Toyota's on the road than ever before that they would have a larger percentage of crashes and this spurious claim your making would have been found out.

Now if all these toyota videos you claim were from iran then hey, maybe you are right but then again around 25000 people die there a year from road related crashes.

Yes granted the Focus and Golf are safe cars but then again so are all Wester European produced (+Skoda) cars due to their stingent requirments, for goodness sake the new mini had to be different to comply with pedestrian impact laws.

Originally Posted by Steffo

Right. That's why when my Fiesta got rear ended by a late 80s Charade, then the Charade got hit by a late 90s Camry (2 shapes behind the newest one), they BOTH got written off and my car needed a new bumper. A plastic bumper.

That's why the Toyota Avalon they put on as a cab, on trial at the base my dad drives for went from being a brand new car to literally falling to pieces in 8 months, spent most of its time off the road being fixed, so the owner took a hit, got rid of it and replaced it with a BA.

That's why my cousin's Honda Civic 1.5 hatch (an early 90s one, the roundy shape) is falling to pieces. And her dad's a mechanic, its not poorly maintained. Every time I go to their house, something new is broken on the car. The electronics barely work, the engine sounds like its in pain and it hasn't even done that many k's.

I could go on and on and on.

A) Comparing crash impact results of an early 90's and 80's car compared to a newer european designed is like comparing an 80 year olds tits to a porno stars....seriously!!!

B) Just because your cousin's uncle's brother's sister in law's friend had an avalon that fell apart, well thats bad luck, have you seen the number of australian built cars with LEMON plastered all over them, it happens.

C) The basis of finding causality from two examples is BASELESS, if you really want to make some more stuff up about Japanese branded/built cars follow Sir Austin Bradford-Hill's criteria for Causality before you start "alledging" things, you'll find yourself doubting your own argument!

/rant (bring on the weekend + cricket)

[MAGPIE]

The amount of crap that dribbles from some peoples gobs is amazing

[Iphido]

Toyota does some strange things.

Look at the avalon. It predated toyotas own rules on safety yet they tried to sell it here anyway.

French build cars for crashtests. Most other manufacturers don't. Some have diffrent needs.

In europe, pedistrian safety is important. Here in Australia, kangaroo protection is important. These conflict with each other.

In germany speeds are very high. So cars must be built with that in mind.

In the US cars have to be designed for crashes with people not wearing seatbelts. hence more powerful airbags that blow your face off.

Crash design is usually a compromise between strength and softness. You want it to be strong in certain areas (namely around the occupants directly) but soft enough to absorb energy.

Japan always was previously lax on car safety, Kai class cars are a good example. usually japanese cars have poor side protection (anti intrusion bars etc). This is all changing tho.

Australian sedans are big and heavy. More recently they have been big and safe. They have dimentions that are able to fend off a impact with say a SUV much better than say a small hatch back.

Compare the crash test between a S-class and a Smart Car. Its a great test. The S class absorbs the impact really well (taking on pretty bad damage as it absorbs) and just sits there. The Smart car does the best it can, but bounces off rolls around on its side doing a few 720's and obviously is more dangerous even tho they may both rate near the same level.

[coyote]

Originally Posted by puts99

But then you have cars like the Toyota Avensis which is amongst the safest in the world..

Biggest risk is that the driver will be bored to death

[PHATXR8]

Maybe Toyota cars have more bad drivers than other cars....... is it just me or do a lot of idiots on our roads drive Camrys?

[blutura]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Right. That's why when my Fiesta got rear ended by a late 80s Charade, then the Charade got hit by a late 90s Camry (2 shapes behind the newest one), they BOTH got written off and my car needed a new bumper. A plastic bumper.

LOL, its must have been the Ford badge protecting it Steffo, because the heap of **** known as the Festiva, is a Kia built in Korea, with a Ford badge glued on.

I would continue to pull your extremely flawed argument to pieces, but I won't bother, because I can see that it would be a complete waste of my time.

Originally Posted by Steffo

I could go on and on and on.

I'm sure you could...

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Steffo

And people wonder why I say Toyota, and Japanese cars in general, are heaps of you know what.

Thanks all the same, I don't want a car made of paper thin cheapo metals "protecting," me.

Japanese cars heaps of shit? Each to their own I guess.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by blutura

LOL, its must have been the Ford badge protecting it Steffo, because the heap of **** known as the Festiva, is a Kia built in Korea, with a Ford badge glued on.

I would continue to pull your extremely flawed argument to pieces, but I won't bother, because I can see that it would be a complete waste of my time.

Your argument was blown to pieces before it was posted.

My car is a Ford FIESTA not a Festiva. Which means its not a Kia, its a Ford. And its not built in Korea, its built in Germany. You lose. :

Originally Posted by tbearz

Classic steffo.....

If you want a safe car buy french and if toyota's are soooooo unsafe why hasn't there been a massive recall like the ford bronco. You'd think seeing there are more Toyota's on the road than ever before that they would have a larger percentage of crashes and this spurious claim your making would have been found out.

Now if all these toyota videos you claim were from iran then hey, maybe you are right but then again around 25000 people die there a year from road related crashes.

Yes granted the Focus and Golf are safe cars but then again so are all Wester European produced (+Skoda) cars due to their stingent requirments, for goodness sake the new mini had to be different to comply with pedestrian impact laws.

Ford Bronco has what relevance to Toyota's cars? Won't touch that anymore.

Yep, there are alot of Toyota's on the road. Because there are alot of fleet/novated lease/company cars on the road.

Video's from Iran? Uh? There are NCAP crash test videos on youtube. Watch them. Some cars are really surprising. The W210 E-Class was. The body remains relatively unsaved in its 40mph head on impact test, but its not as nice to be the driver.

And as you say, they have strict requirements in Europe. Where as in Japan they're pretty easy going. Hrm.

Originally Posted by tbearz

) Comparing crash impact results of an early 90's and 80's car compared to a newer european designed is like comparing an 80 year olds tits to a porno stars....seriously!!!

B) Just because your cousin's uncle's brother's sister in law's friend had an avalon that fell apart, well thats bad luck, have you seen the number of australian built cars with LEMON plastered all over them, it happens.

C) The basis of finding causality from two examples is BASELESS, if you really want to make some more stuff up about Japanese branded/built cars follow Sir Austin Bradford-Hill's criteria for Causality before you start "alledging" things, you'll find yourself doubting your own argument!

It was a late 80s Charade and late 90s Camry. Not early. The 1997-2002 shape Camry. Its not that old, it shouldn't falter to a Charade being repelled by a Fiesta's plastic bumper. But it did. At 30km/h.

I have never seen a Toyota/Honda (those are the main two accused of being world beaters) as reliable or 'high of quality,' as is suggested in the media. Until very recently I would not really put my life in the hands of one of their products. Some of their recent examples (the new new current brand new Camry) aren't bad cars, but I'd never call them class leaders.

Believe what you like. I'll believe what I like and we're all happy then.

[MITCHAY]

Just because it was written off doesn't mean that it wasn't repairable. Those cars would of had shit all value on your car dude.

Unless it was a non-repairable write off which you did not state.

[bodes-sh]

^^exactly, generally they write it off if it's going to cost more to repair the car than replace it...on the other hand if it was structurally damaged/non repairable then it would be a non-repairable write off...which means it can't be repaired and re-registered

[nitroman]

Toyota's are good, they keep dikheads from driving Fords!

[Ford_Boy]

there must be alot of idiots out there because the sales speak for them selves. i believe its older peoples assumption that falcons and commodores drink lots of petrol. not to mention they are usullay alot cheaper then the falcons and commodores. i do believe japanese make quality but not to the standards of the germans,sweedish and italians. europe will always be the figure to look up to if you want quality and performance.

[zetec]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Your argument was blown to pieces before it was posted.

My car is a Ford FIESTA not a Festiva. Which means its not a Kia, its a Ford. And its not built in Korea, its built in Germany. You lose. :

:

[killer_taxi]

Originally Posted by Ford_Boy

i do believe japanese make quality but not to the standards of the germans,sweedish and italians. europe will always be the figure to look up to if you want quality and performance.

Italian... quality... :

I'd have to disagree and say Japan sets many standards for build quality. Just look at a Lexus, Subaru, or Honda for example (IS200, Liberty, Legend, etc). There's a reason why Lexus tops many satisfaction surveys all over the world. In comparison, Mercedes-Benz have found themselves to even being beaten by Hyundai. Quality control has a great deal to do with this. BMW has also had its problems. They have got into using materials, which are designed to be easily recycled, and the quality of these materials is very poor. Italian car manufactures such as Alfa-Romeo and Fiat have been well known to fall apart in a short amount of time. I have a friend whose parents owned an Alfa; they kept a box in the boot specially used to hold all the parts of the interior that had fallen off.

I would say, Europe leads the way in engineering, but not always quality.

[OLDFORDNUT]

im a Ford fan but i have owned several other cars from Holden , Toyota,mitsubishi and Honda
with out a doubt the Honda's(one Civic and an Accord )were far better than all the others for performance,and build quality,.
The worst by far was the Toyota Avalon,what a pile of shite it was.
the worst for economy was the Magna (1996 model) as for the real little cars i dont care how many airbags they might have i would never let my kids or grandkids in one if i have any say in it.

[blutura]

Originally Posted by zetec

:

doh!
me = :

(mental note to self: read more carefully in future!)

damn you Ford and your rediculously similar model names!

[Ford_Boy]

ferrari is italian and look at the quality of its cars...what asian manufacturer could boast as being better built and of better quality?