Holden SV6/SS vs Ford XR6/XR8 ute

XRated · 30-11-2006, 10:11 PM

Hey guys (another long-winded thread),

I haven't made this to start a slinging match but just wanted to share my personal experience regarding people and how they perceive brands.

One of my brothers is looking to replace his '04 Landrover with a ute for work - he's back to being a chippy after supervising for years so needs something a bit more practical. This goes way back: he first owned a dreadful XF ute with bench-seat and all and then upgraded to a brand new 5-speed XH ute back in 1996 or so (I still remember going down in the XF and leaving in the XH). Brand-loyalty? Maybe, but I don't know why because the XF cost him bucketloads in repairs.

He then went through a couple of Ford company cars; an AU followed by a BA both which never did him wrong. I'll get one thing straight first; he isn't an enthusiast like the rest of us so one would think he could sway either way.

Well I think Ford lost him as a customer like a lot of people with the AU - just the design and the lack of marketing certainly didn't help.

We went looking at utes today during our lunch break - straight to the Holden dealer! He was looking at the SS Thunder (red leather, hard tonneau, 18s etc) and it looked really nice... We also looked over a couple of Maloos but $50-60k on a ute is out of the question as a work car plus he isn't big on spending $6k+ extra on a V8. So he's now looking at the SV6 Thunder variant (oh the pain). I personally wouldn't bother with any of the Holden 6s, but on the other hand if I was looking for a performance V8 I don't think I would consider what Ford has to offer - but that's just me. Nah, I probably would end up in one but anyway!!

Back to the dealer. We stood around the yard for at least 10 minutes with no assistance and then went into the showroom and stood like we were invisible for nearly 5 more minutes but it didn't phase him - and he's not the most patient bloke on earth!!

I told him to consider the BF utes - more power for work with the extra torque as he carries a lot of tools, smoother 6, 6-speed auto and I'm sure there are Magnet packs or something floating about with 18s and leather. But nup he won't even cosider them!! To quote: "Ford Smord!"

I know it's his loss, but I thought it was interesting how he is one of the many people that won't even consider a Ford for no particular reason. I can only attribute it to marketing and the image Holden now has and good on them for taking advantage. Come to think of it, most of my family is Holden biassed although I got my mum into a Focus and my other brother has a Territory as a company vehicle (after an EF).

Anyway, that was my pointless observation for this week. I can only think that if Ford Oz spent the pennies attracting consumers with a superior product (in many areas) that sales would be very different today.

Cheers

PS: I can't help but think my love affair with the Blue Oval makes him think we're a strange breed heh.

Powdered Toast Man · 30-11-2006, 11:08 PM

What sort of load does he need to carry though? The commo utes have independant rear suspension and cant carry as much payload. Mind you I dont think the XR utes have a big payload rating either. I think its like 600 kilos or something but you can get the Ford 1 tonners. If its just tools then its probably no probs.

I agree with the marketing problem although Ford have worked on rectifying that. Probably more work to do though!

Twinpiston · 30-11-2006, 11:26 PM

Plus Holden aren't updating their utes till next!!!!

MoreHPformyXR6 · 30-11-2006, 11:28 PM

I was a Holden fan b4 I bought my first & only Ford thus far but its done everything right so far to make me look at what the Blue Oval next time im in the market. I almost certain that Ford's marketing buget in nothing compared to Holden's. The Poll I set up re this a while back add's weight to that. But im sure Ford could do more " the have to get that jingle singing in the ear's of the kids of Australia " I love football meat pies & blue oval cars" I know it doesnt go quite like that but u get the drift.

:

schmidty · 30-11-2006, 11:34 PM

Tell him as a chippy who has a BA XR6 ute, and the guy who works with me has a VY2 SS ute, buy a BA.

I looked at both before i got mine.

Commodore in a 6 has 60NM less torque which you really notice when you're towing. So if he ever tows or carts a lot of gear the falcon feels like it does it quite a bit easier.

Falcon has as a so much more user friendly cab compared to the commodore. I can never get in my mates commorode ute because everything is on the front seat. I could fit was much stuff in my supercab as you could fit in the back of the average hatchback! Good for keeping a box with plans and job files, jackets, maps, laptop, lunch and whatever else. Commodore, you can literally only fit a melways behind the seats.

Falcon interior also looks so much more trick in the xr than the commodore interior does! IMO

Falcon stereo sounds heaps better.

1 thing the commodore does have going for it is that the load area is longer. To fit my 2m level in the back i have to put it diagonally. He can fit his in straight. so i'm tipping his is 200mm longer

The falcon tonneau cover works better but commodores looks neater. Falcon you basically open the section u want to fit around a big item or timber hanging out etc, commodore opens in sides.

Mates commodore chews out tyres so much because of the irs and having weight in the back. He got camber kits put in, and i told him to get it aligned with all of his gear in the back but is still chews them out.

Load caps are similar in the XR to the commo, but if you dont get an xr it as said already can carry up to 1 tonne. From experience the BA will carry whatever you throw at it, mine's had a tonne in the back on a few occasions and bounces back no worries.

BA tub is more user friendly with the plastic inner. Would be an extra cost to get a loner in a commo.

Commo handles better, but difference is negligable in normal driving unless you go punting it hard around windy roads often.

Dunno if the holden service interval is any different yet, but the ford is 15,000km so thats handy as its off the road less often.

Given the choice again i'd buy another falcon.

MoreHPformyXR6 · 30-11-2006, 11:48 PM

What's the main differance in driving feel with Falcon Ute / Commodore Ute compared too Falcon sedan/Commodore sedan? Reason I ask ive driven my mates SS for a short while a couple years ago that he's now sold. I know the suspension is way different in Ute's vs Sedan's. In general I like the look of ute's slightly better than sedans. But im more into the bway the car drives. Do sedans handle way better than ute's? If im correct sedans have IRS & utes dont?

schmidty · 01-12-2006, 12:15 AM

Sedan handling is much nicer in the sedan. Utes are a harsher ride because they are set to carry a load. And the live axle set up in the falcon ute is not as good through the corners as the commodore ute irs.

XRated · 01-12-2006, 10:29 AM

schmidty, all excellent points but he'll take my argument as trying to get him into a Ford rather than doing him a favour! I will try to get him to test drive one at least, but he can be a stubborn ***** at a times...

Has the date of the VE Commo ute been confirmed?

EDIT: I just got him to at least have a look at one today hehe :dr_Evil: There are some cheap drive-away deals in today's Herald Sun.

mcnews · 01-12-2006, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

Sedan handling is much nicer in the sedan. Utes are a harsher ride because they are set to carry a load. And the live axle set up in the falcon ute is not as good through the corners as the commodore ute irs.

The V6 in the Commonwhore is atrocious. There is nowhere near as much room to store gear behind the seats as in the Foulcan.

The Falcon utes have a longer wheelbase than the sedans and this they are better balanced in some ways as long as the road is smooth but if the road is rough the sedan will fare better with the IRS.

Ford_Boy · 01-12-2006, 11:38 AM

[QUOTE=XRated]

Has the date of the VE Commo ute been confirmed?

who cares, it will look so weird the way it arches up n with its ugly flares. its going to look weird if it has flares over the back wheels. it will be real fast and probably handle great but (ss)

Grum · 01-12-2006, 12:04 PM

I had a VZ S pac ute that I bought brand new. It was nice but all new cars should be. I got rid of that and bought a 2003 BA XR8 ute and I am honestly a thousand time happier in that.
The space and design of the cab, as previously pointed out is a massive advantage. You don’t have to go fishing for the little items you have put in the tray because they can be conveniently stored in the cab. For the driving I do I am a lot more comfortable with the live rear, I think in most cases with a LSD in a ute the live rear is safer. If he wants a v8 ute, get him to sit behind that sexy bulge! It is horn. The separate cab/tray in the fords is handy. Although it probably doesn’t look as sexy it is practical and if damaged is a lot easier to repair. If he wants a hard lid on the ute the new BF hardlid/roll bar/ spoiler combo is defiantly the way to go. Also the boss engine sounds way better!!!!!!

Just my point of view

XRated · 01-12-2006, 12:39 PM

Well I just spoke to my brother and it seems neither Ford or Holden want to sell a brand new $35k-38k car!

1. The knob at Holden didn't bother ringing back yesterday with a price on the SV6/Thunder like he promised. He even knows that my brother wants to buy a ute within the next week or sooner if possible. So my brother called him up and the salesman (if you can call him that) was clueless and didn't have an on-road price on the SV6 like he said - instead he gave him a price on the SS (I think it was $41.5k on-road?), so more waiting. I can't understand this! Well he's lost a sale anyway. Half-wit.

2. Ford didn't have any Falcon utes my brother could take a look at with similar options and couldn't even give him a price of one on road.

Just a couple of questions:
Does the Falcon XR6 come standard with a liner?
Do all the tonneau covers on the Falcons have segments that can be lifted? Or are there different types?
What options do you get with Magnet utes and can you still get them?

I thought it would be simple: "I want a price on a ute that looks like that but the 6 cylinder version." Bang. This is the price. Done.

01-12-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRated

Well I just spoke to my brother and it seems neither Ford or Holden want to sell a brand new $35k-38k car!

1. The knob at Holden didn't bother ringing back yesterday with a price on the SV6/Thunder like he promised. He even knows that my brother wants to buy a ute within the next week or sooner if possible. So my brother called him up and the salesman (if you can call him that) was clueless and didn't have an on-road price on the SV6 like he said - instead he gave him a price on the SS (I think it was $41.5k on-road?), so more waiting. I can't understand this! Well he's lost a sale anyway. Half-wit.

2. Ford didn't have any Falcon utes my brother could take a look at with similar options and couldn't even give him a price of one on road.

Just a couple of questions:
Does the Falcon XR6 come standard with a liner?
Do all the tonneau covers on the Falcons have segments that can be lifted? Or are there different types?
What options do you get with Magnet utes and can you still get them?

I thought it would be simple: "I want a price on a ute that looks like that but the 6 cylinder version." Bang. This is the price. Done.

All Falcon utes have the liner. The tonneaus are all the same and you can open a small sections off it, especially the corners.

What is he after exactly? Baring in mind the only version you can get with the 6spd auto is the Turbo and XR8.

XRQTOR · 01-12-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RATT

All Falcon utes have the liner. The tonneaus are all the same and you can open a small sections off it, especially the corners.

What is he after exactly? Baring in mind the only version you can get with the 6spd auto is the Turbo and XR8.

So you can buy the BF xr6 sedan with the 6 speed auto but not the ute.

mowog · 01-12-2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRated

Does the Falcon XR6 come standard with a liner?

The Holden ute has a full steel tray.
The Ford have liner supported by steel braces.

Some people dont like the Ford Liner I have seen an XR8 Ute with 30klm on it sitting in a Holden yard. The guy didnt know that the Ford only had a liner he only noticed when he was filling the tank just after he picked the car up.

He traded it on a new Holden Ute the next day. For tradie the Ford liner might be an issue. For me it didnt matter.

XRated · 01-12-2006, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RATT

All Falcon utes have the liner. The tonneaus are all the same and you can open a small sections off it, especially the corners.

What is he after exactly? Baring in mind the only version you can get with the 6spd auto is the Turbo and XR8.

Ah always a catch. No 6-speed auto in the BF XR6 ute! How ridiculous.

RATT, could you please give me a rough price difference between a BF XR6, XR6T and XR8 with leather and tonneau on road? ABN holder and leasing if that makes a difference.

mowog, I'm not sure what you mean by the liner being supported by a steel brace. He carries a compressor, drop saw etc, nothing too heavy/major - certainly under the load rating.

pb02 · 01-12-2006, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mowog

He traded it on a new Holden Ute the next day. For tradie the Ford liner might be an issue. For me it didnt matter.

I've never had an issue with it and I've had up to 700kg in the back. I've also had about 1 sq metre of pebbles dumped in the back to and it was still perfect!

A few things got me over the line with the ford, the best, and also the reason a mate of mine is switching from holden to ford is the extra cab.
I can get backpacks, groceries, you name it. All in the cab with me. My mate uses his as a work vehicle and has to carry everthing in the tray in a plastic tub. I couldn't live without an extra cab!

mowog · 01-12-2006, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRated

Ah always a catch. No 6-speed auto in the BF XR6 ute! How ridiculous.

RATT, could you please give me a rough price difference between a BF XR6, XR6T and XR8 with leather and tonneau on road? ABN holder and leasing if that makes a difference.

mowog, I'm not sure what you mean by the liner being supported by a steel brace. He carries a compressor, drop saw etc, nothing too heavy/major - certainly under the load rating.

Mate I was happy the XR6 Utes dont have the 6 Speed Auto. This was my excuse to buy the XR6 Turbo Ute...

:

It is a great gearbox...

The Fords dont have a full steel tray under the liner. The liner is supported in a steal frame. I cant see the tools listed causing a problem.

mowog · 01-12-2006, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb02

I've never had an issue with it and I've had up to 700kg in the back. I've also had about 1 sq metre of pebbles dumped in the back to and it was still perfect!

Its not an issue for me either which is why I have ordered a Ford Ute. But anyone looking needs to know the facts in case it will be an issue for them.

XRated · 01-12-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mowog

Mate I was happy the XR6 Utes dont have the 6 Speed Auto. This was my excuse to buy the XR6 Turbo Ute...

:

It is a great gearbox...

LOL!

Thanks mowog, I'd love for him to get the T with 6-speed auto! But I'd be guessing on-road it'd be out of his budget. I assume he'd be looking at roughly $43k on-road for one with the options listed.

By the way, do the SV6s come with a 5-speed auto? Are they any good?

mowog · 01-12-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRated

LOL!

Thanks mowog, I'd love for him to get the T with 6-speed auto! But I'd be guessing on-road it'd be out of his budget.

By the way, do the SV6s come with a 5-speed auto? Are they any good?

Mate you would be suprised at what kind of deal you can get.

I got offered a BFII XR6 Turbo Ute Auto for $37k drive away. But I wanted some extras that were not fitted to any cars in stock so I did a factory order. I saved over $5000 on list price on thatcar as well.

Sprint347 · 01-12-2006, 04:06 PM

My lady friend needed a ute to tow her horse...

We compared the BF XR6 to the VZ SV6 very closely, drove both cars etc.

Although I'm a Ford person at heart, we both opted for the VZ - it's due next week

schmidty · 01-12-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrane

My lady friend needed a ute to tow her horse...

We compared the BF XR6 to the VZ SV6 very closely, drove both cars etc.

Although I'm a Ford person at heart, we both opted for the VZ - it's due next week

You'll regret it for towing.

Slush crap box auto, they chew through tyres so i hope you're only forking out 16's. and you'll be ripping the guts out of it to hold speeds on hills on the highway. Towed with both, much prefer my falcon.

When the float is unhooked though, if you're not loaded it will be nice to drive and much of a muchness to own. Falcon is more of a work horse the way it is designed 60%work 40% show, commodore is the more show pony, 40% work, 60% show

FLYXR6 · 01-12-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

You'll regret it for towing.

Slush crap box auto, they chew through tyres so i hope you're only forking out 16's. and you'll be ripping the guts out of it to hold speeds on hills on the highway. Towed with both, much prefer my falcon.

When the float is unhooked though, if you're not loaded it will be nice to drive and much of a muchness to own. Falcon is more of a work horse the way it is designed 60%work 40% show, commodore is the more show pony, 40% work, 60% show

I agree... The holdens for towing a really bad (surprisingly bad). I see alot of the holden/fords around work sites and have driven a few towing and not towing as far as a 6cyld goes you can't beat the ford.

I'm sorry to say it but when your slugging the guts out of the engine and gearbox trying to lug around a float you will wish you had the ford.

HOON69 · 02-12-2006, 01:42 AM

fords XR range is superior

why go holden? ;)

XR8-260 · 02-12-2006, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

You'll regret it for towing.

Slush crap box auto, they chew through tyres so i hope you're only forking out 16's. and you'll be ripping the guts out of it to hold speeds on hills on the highway. Towed with both, much prefer my falcon.

When the float is unhooked though, if you're not loaded it will be nice to drive and much of a muchness to own. Falcon is more of a work horse the way it is designed 60%work 40% show, commodore is the more show pony, 40% work, 60% show

I'll second that. If you want to buy a vehicle primarily for towing, torque is what you're looking for.

**Stav** · 02-12-2006, 04:49 AM

The fords are a tougher car in any case.These new ve's have got the useless thumbs down due to the cardboard quality plastic.Looks recycled to me.Doh what am I talking about..my main customers own holdens..cough cough they are great!!!

xr8man83 · 02-12-2006, 06:44 AM

built fords tough thats all i got to say

XRated · 05-12-2006, 05:38 PM

Well he picks up the VZ SS Thunder on Friday! Red leather, auto, hard cover, 18s etc.

It's not a Ford, but hey, it's a big V8 that looks sexy. I can't wait to go for a spin!!

And if you're wondering, Ford never rang back so they can stick it. Very disappointing because he could be behind the wheel of a XR6T/XR8 with 6-speed for basically the same price (or less).

Full Spectrum · 05-12-2006, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRated

LOL!

Thanks mowog, I'd love for him to get the T with 6-speed auto! But I'd be guessing on-road it'd be out of his budget. I assume he'd be looking at roughly $43k on-road for one with the options listed.

By the way, do the SV6s come with a 5-speed auto? Are they any good?

I'll tell you i don't think the utes come with 5 speed or highoutput alloytech V6. So that is a down side for me personally. If they offered a VZ ute with 195 V6 and 5 speed it would be great but they don't. But the 5 speed auto in VE is very good, It's not as good as the falcon 6 speed but i don't think there is one that is? But the 5 speed is very very good still.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRated

Well he picks up the VZ SS Thunder on Friday! Red leather, auto, hard cover, 18s etc.

It's not a Ford, but hey, it's a big V8 that looks sexy. I can't wait to go for a spin!!

And if you're wondering, Ford never rang back so they can stick it. Very disappointing because he could be behind the wheel of a XR6T/XR8 with 6-speed for basically the same price (or less).

Is it the 6LT?