What was wrong with XR8?

[prydey]

right off the top, keep it civil guys. this is not another opportunity to bag ford.

i'm just curious to know why the xr8 didn't sell. a quick browse through some magazines reveals that the journo's found in FG guise, it steered and handled much better than b series and one said it wasn't really any worse than the xr6t. when compared to holdens SS, it recieved a positive review regarding its handling and steering feel.

the numbers were a little bit less flattering but depending on which issue you read, weren't as bad as some make out. occasionally the journo's managed to get one into the high 13's on the 1/4 and sub 6 to 100km/h. on average though, low/flat 14's were all day every day stuff. much of this is due to the struggle to get it off the line cleanly. terminal speeds aren't very different between all the rivals. the xr6t was generally a good .5 quicker in most areas, as was the SS depending on which article you read. in issues where both cars were tested on the same day in same conditions by same drivers, there was barely anything between the XR8 and SS, and yet apparently, according to AFF, the XR8 was 'slow'!!

now, in the real world, i don't know many people that hold their foot flat for 400m at a time. i'm talking in every day driving, not a track. also, apparently the 'numbers' aren't that important anyway.

so why did the buyers turn their nose up at XR8? is it a myth that it didn't sell well? is the real reason for its demise emissions related?

for all those who did want one there is still one available. brand new. 0km.
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...ywords=&Nne=15

if the argument is that the xr6t is quicker and cheaper, then why does the v8 outsell it in the fpv stable? if you bought a turbo instead of an 8, then a v8 obviously wasn't that important to you.

also the holden argument. they don't have a 6cyl alternative. if you want a performance commodore, there is only 1 option. i wonder if xr6t and xr8 sales were added, how they would compare to SS.

this is not a ford bashing thread. i think to me it shows that when we look back it really highlights how frustrating it must be to be a ford product manager. the fans are just so hard to please.

[Mr Hardware]

Yeah there's an XR8 with less than 300k on the clock available in just about every state of Australia

[Polyal]

How can you have a discussion about the XR8's demise by not being critical?

I think the XR8 Discussion thread had plenty of reasons why people felt like it wasnt right.

I think what Ford is missing most right now is the XR8 ute. It didnt set the world on fire but it did keep ticking over, moreso with utes just having a V8 there is good, you cant get to picky about handling etc when its a commercial vehicle. The sedan is a different story.

And for every good review you read there is a negative one aswell.

There might be some hanging around, but thats the same for many other models. "Build it and they will come"...doesnt always work...there are many other factors.

[HULK EF]

*i6T just too good?
*FG XR8 too little too late to arrest sales slide?
*Ford also dropped the 3 valve v8.in falcon/futura/fairmont/fairlane so i guess no people upgrading to the 4v xr8... Got into the I6T instead and havent looked back..

[Smoke Pursuit]

XR8 utes were very popular, more popular then their turbo brothers..

Sedans lacked a little but Ford never pushed the XR8.. They never did big incentives on them like XR6 Turbo, they never stocked them in big amounts, they never really did anything to help it.

I still think they should have followed Holden with the V packs, eg and XR8 and an XR8 R Spec!! Ofcourse released a G8E with the 290 motor back in 2008 as well as the Turbo.. That would have been an interesting option.

[FreddyDUZ747]

Does anyone one have build numbers vs sales stats each year?

[Mr Hardware]

Dash GT, We hear the term G8E bandied around here a lot, but its kinda a moot point - basically no-one bought BFII V8 Fairmont Ghias, so there's your answer.

[Polyal]

^^^No one brought the 3v for the same reasons.....it was an awkward engine though, albeit with some great usable low down torque.

The only car that sold well in was the Fairlane..and well lets not go down that road.

[blk6t]

Keep in mind its not always about performance numbers...0-100 / 1/4 mile etc. When compared to the Holden, you could probably walk away with a SSV for a fraction more than a standard XR8, so in that regard your not going to steal any Holden lovers away from their beloved SS's.

Also remember the later XR8's only ever got the 5.4L which compared to the XR6T and Holden's offerings lacked some what. On top of that the Falcon has been selling in fewer numbers every month and its usually the mainstream models that last unitl the end, and the XR8 is not one of them.

There has been some talk of the XR8 making a return, but I don't see it happening and apparently the GS is beginning to sell quite well, i'm sure FPV will listen to their customers and make the GS a bit more nicer inside and rival the SSV a bit more come FG2 or FH.

But is the XR8 really gone???...the XR8 is only a badge and essentially lives on in GS guise, if you threw some Ford badges on the front and rear and then some XR8 badges would it be any different to what the XR8 was in early FG guise (engine aside)???

Actually I would love to see someone remove the GS badges and throw on some XR8 badges, might turn a few heads???

[NAK302]

over 1000 bucks a year for the priveledge of driving QLD's goat tracks may be another reason.

[BrisVegas]

Originally Posted by GT-0733

over 1000 bucks a year for the priveledge of driving QLD's goat tracks may be another reason.

exactly! How ****** up is the Qld rego system? Surely it should be based on kms driven...

[2011G6E]

Not hot enough, from wha I've seen in magazines and web news items over the years...not enough to differentiate it markedly from what you get from the turbo.

Even FPV faces the challenge of this. For instance, I believe that still sitting in the Ford dealer in Rocky is a gold FPV ute, proudly displaying a spec sheet, with 315kw mentioned as the power output.
Sitting outside at the same time was a turbo six sedan with 310kw.
The ute was still unsold after sitting there for months the last time I was there, but they shifted the sedan in a couple of weeks.
The dealer who sold us our G6E said to me "a lot of people love the ute, they love the look of it, but it only puts out five extra kilowatts...for the extra money you pay for the V8, why stump up a big heap of extra rego and fuel costs each year just to say you have a V8?"

If they were going to get serious about, get serious about it and don't pussy-foot around.

Originally Posted by BrisVegas

exactly! How ****** up is the Qld rego system? Surely it should be based on kms driven...

Oh i don't think so...not when those of us who aren't privelaged enough to live in the golden land of the south east corner with well-funded four and six lane highways and tunnels everywhere, have to drive 20km just to go to the shops, and 170km to the nearest major city.

[Bucknaked]

I think it's time they stop giving barebones models, expecting consumers to spend thousands more on options. I want an xr8, but them to get all the options I want, it's another $10k - $20k on top. Included them as part of the package. This is why I bought a mondeo. All options were included as the total cost. Falcons, you get basics and then you need to spend more on getting nice options. Change it from options to inclusions. Total cost is nice. No surprises.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Polyal

How can you have a discussion about the XR8's demise by not being critical?

I think the XR8 Discussion thread had plenty of reasons why people felt like it wasnt right.

this is in light of many of the arguments against the GS. performance figures don't matter as much anymore but apparently they did less than a year ago.

this isn't really about 'it should've had this' or 'ford should've done that'. if you look at it in light of the more recent arguments regarding fords v8 offerings, its a bit puzzling.

Originally Posted by blk6t

Also remember the later XR8's only ever got the 5.4L which compared to the XR6T and Holden's offerings lacked some what.

did it really though?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

...not enough to differentiate it markedly from what you get from the turbo.

but why did they need to. it was essentially the same car. you just paid a tad extra for the v8.

[FreddyDUZ747]

What did Ford think would happen when they threw a boat anchor/truck motor in a Sports Family Sedan and chucked a rocket in its little brothers hood that also used less fuel/maintanence.

I would of bought the XR8 if it had remotely LS1/2 modding abillity in N/A form quite happily as I am a V8 man so to speak.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

What did Ford think would happen when they threw a boat anchor/truck motor in a Sports Family Sedan and chucked a rocket in its little brothers hood that also used less fuel/maintanence.

I would of bought the XR8 if it had remotely LS1/2 modding abillity in N/A form quite happily as I am a V8 man so to speak.

is the 'aftermarket' responsible then? did most people buy turbos and ss's because for a little bit extra on a tune, they could have a 12sec car? i think you'd be surprised how small the % of people who go down this road with their $50k cars actually is.

how much would you spend on an SS to get it into the 12's? that would put it inredibly close to GS territory but without factory warranty.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by prydey

this is in light of many of the arguments against the GS. performance figures don't matter as much anymore but apparently they did less than a year ago.

this isn't really about 'it should've had this' or 'ford should've done that'. if you look at it in light of the more recent arguments regarding fords v8 offerings, its a bit puzzling.

I think perhaps keeping this thread about the XR8 is a better idea because you know what will happen is we start talking about the GS (which also is a good car BTW).

The FG XR8 suffered IMO, thats all it is, from;

1. Heavy engine up front made it not steer/turn in as sharply as a SS, and in just about every test that was done when the SS and XR6T is involved this was noted. Not rocket science because at the end of the day a truck engine was adapted. Look at the 5.0 now, thats an example of the right engine for the right car. YES the overall ride was better and more refined...but this segment is not overly concerned with plushness and quality, they want a "sports sedan".

2. Power Band. Now initially FPV claimed that the "VTEC" like rush from 3500rpm was intentional, and I have heard this backed up within Ford from a powertrain engineer. Now thats all well and good for the GT, but most aussies from what I am lead to believe grew up with V8's that made most of their power down low aswell. This also hurt performance because to get the most you had to whip them up..that leads me to point 3

3. Fuel Consumption. Yes this in a way is a silly point but as petrol prices went up both the SS and the XR6T used less fuel for a quicker result.

4. Close enough to Zero marketing..the XR8 ute got its usual "blokey" adds once released but the campaigns soon dry up in a hurry.

In general, both the SS and the XR6T offered similar if not better performance, for less cost (purchase and running).

I agree that the rise of the I6T has come at the cost of some V8 sales aswell...but not all. And SS sales look better because they have NO other option.

To me the FG XR8 was more of a "GT" style cruiser, not a lower budget performance car that the SS seems to be perceived as. The SS is not perfect, far far from it, but it ticks all the boxes that people in that segment want. A decent price, a flexible engine (people obviously dont care about how many cams it has) and something that handles ok.

All of the above is a shame because the FG XR8 is the BEST looking car of the range by far...I know its a XR6 with a bulge but it just pulled the look off. But the XR8 brand seems to have lost its way over the years.

The Tickfords seemed to have some aggression about them, the AU series was great but we got flogged by the LS1. And they also had to deal with the "AU styling drama".

[SEZ213]

oooh I know the answer...

'NOTHING!'

In my opinion of course...

[AMGC63]

After only being here a short while some of the anti Ford sentiment on this forum is quite bad and unfounded. Why did the XR8 die? Well as they say bad news, weather true or not travels much faster than good news.

Id say a few from here have blood on their hands....

[Smoke Pursuit]

Well we will all know its fate by November this year wont we just.. If its not released with FGII then we will never see the XR8 again! :( sigh.

[Polyal]

That is a horn looking car.

[prydey]

i think a lot of the issues with b series has muddied the waters a bit for fg.

Originally Posted by Polyal

I think perhaps keeping this thread about the XR8 is a better idea because you know what will happen is we start talking about the GS (which also is a good car BTW).

absolutely agree. the arguments seem to contradict each other though. the numbers aren't important! the numbers are important!

from fords point of view, if they read this forum, they'd be confused and frustrated.

[FreddyDUZ747]

Originally Posted by prydey

is the 'aftermarket' responsible then? did most people buy turbos and ss's because for a little bit extra on a tune, they could have a 12sec car? i think you'd be surprised how small the % of people who go down this road with their $50k cars actually is.

how much would you spend on an SS to get it into the 12's? that would put it inredibly close to GS territory but without factory warranty.

Was speaking from a person who likes to modify their car point of view,not just neons and paint from Autobahrn.

At my uncles dyno centre(West Torrens)a simple OTR Mafless tune,full exhaust and light stall will see 12's allday on a 6ltr.Looking at around 5k their

Warranty,well if the customer is happy to void it then it should be of no comparrison to the 12sec GS factory warrantied vehicle imo.

It is what it is and we shouldnt conditionalise the results to much.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by prydey

i think a lot of the issues with b series has muddied the waters a bit for fg.



absolutely agree. the arguments seem to contradict each other though. the numbers aren't important! the numbers are important!

from fords point of view, if they read this forum, they'd be confused and frustrated.

Honestly yes, the B series XR8's suffered the same fate, although the "newness" of the XR8 back then helped it along.

The numbers thing is interesting, and your right how it changes. But FPV/FTE use it to suit themselves aswell. I recall quite vividly David Flint and the boys pumping it into our heads when the T1/T2 cars were released that it was about the overall package and not just the engine. The story was changed to suit them at the time as the windsor was struggling.

Number are import in the FPV/HSV segment, but the XR8 was killing the SS with kws and it still didnt seem to help which possibly means with this segment its more about having a complete package that meets the criteria than outright grunt. In saying that you cant go into battle 50kws down either.

Selling cars is a tough gig and predicting what will happen is a tough call. In hindsight though the Aussie BOSS is a good engine, I dont think the path they took is one they would have if they had any other option, they simply didnt.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Dash GT, We hear the term G8E bandied around here a lot, but its kinda a moot point - basically no-one bought BFII V8 Fairmont Ghias, so there's your answer.

But they had all the components, so it wouldn't have cost much to put a few together for customers that wanted them. they do built to order on all models, so why not?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BrisVegas

exactly! How ****** up is the Qld rego system? Surely it should be based on kms driven...

Or better still based of the amount of public transport locally available, those in the cities pay more than those in the bush as those in the bush have no choice but to drive.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by GT-0733

over 1000 bucks a year for the priveledge of driving QLD's goat tracks may be another reason.

Sorry I missed that. I cant even believe a rego for any car could be that much. Im annoyed when ours goes up annually and we are at 560ish!

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Sorry I missed that. I cant even believe a rego for any car could be that much. Im annoyed when ours goes up annually and we are at 560ish!

i guess the other argument is, why should it be different from state to state?? like so many rules in this country. i pay nearly $800/yr for my xr6 in s.a. but s.a. includes ctp whereas other states i believe its separate.

[XR Martin]

I still think it would have been a better idea to use the Supercharged 4.6 from the Mustang Cobra instead of the 5.4.