Space songs could attract aliens!

[Geez Louise]

In the paper today....I say...send up AC/DC!!

Aliens could misinterpret earth's classic songs as declarations of war if they are recklessly broadcast into space, some scientists say.

Last week NASA broadcast a Beatles song, Across the Universe, towards the North Star, in the hope it would be noticed by extra-terrestrial beings.

"Before sending out even symbolic messages, we need an open discussion about the potential risks," New Scientist magazine reported Dr Douglas Vakoch of the SETI Institute as saying.

Professor Barrie Jones of Open University said: "the chances are slight, but the consequences would be huge — the end of life on Earth".

"If they have the technology to cross interstellar space to reach us, they will be so much in advance of us humans that there is nothing we could do to resist them," he said.

SETI — the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence — has been listening to the skies for the last 20 years.

The program uses radio telescopes to scan for any messages or noises that may indicate the existence of life on other planets.

Scientist Ainin De Horta, from the SETI Australia Centre, said the there could be dangers in broadcasting songs into deep space.

But he didn't think it would lead to an intergalactic war.

"I think the chances are pretty unlikely that it'll lead to an alien invasion, but I do think there is a point that this should be discussed by the whole world, because who knows what'll happen," Mr De Horta said.

"I think it's highly unlikely that this message will cause a reaction, and that it'll cause a reaction in our lifetime."

Radio waves travel through space at the speed of light or nearly 300,000km per second.

The first radio transmission, sent in the 1920s, would have travelled nearly 90 light years by now.

"It's not like picking up the phone and ringing me for instance," Mr De Horta said.

"We're talking about vast distances and a response would take years from even the closet star."

SETI has had a few close calls, or what they call "candidates", but Mr De Horta says any authentic messages would have been identified.

"We get what we call candidates every so often, but none of them turn out to be something that can't be explained, like a statistical anomaly or equipment glitch."

The nearest star to Earth, Alpha Proxima, is four light years away.

[TheSneakiness]

So want the drugs these people are on.

[bathurst77]

Is it april 1 already?

[Riksta]

Maybe Ziggy Stardust and The Spiders From Mars will come visit us after hearing Space Oddity :P

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

Oh no, here comes Mork !

Best we start preparing to say "Nanoo Nanoo" alot.

[Quasi]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

Space songs could attract aliens!

They already have.......just look around this place

[Nostalgia]

One can only hope that they dont start pumping out Shannon Noll. That would definately start a inter galactic war The wife just slapped me for writing that. I think she might be a alien

[Duke]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

SETI — the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence — has been listening to the skies for the last 20 years.

Listening to the skies for 20 years with no result... And I thought watching golf on TV was boring.... pffft !

BTW Colleen, didn't your avatar used to 'bounce'? Or was it just wishful thinking on my part.

[daniel_rossy]

:
Someone is smoking something illegal...

[Geez Louise]

Originally Posted by Duke

Listening to the skies for 20 years with no result... And I thought watching golf on TV was boring.... pffft !

BTW Colleen, didn't your avatar used to 'bounce'? Or was it just wishful thinking on my part.

Hey Dukey! Yes she did bounce but didn't know if the mods would allow it so I stopped her bouncing but I might ask.See if I am allowed to let her bounce!! just so your wish can be granted. Something for you to watch when you are bench pressin!!

[aussiblue]

Prof Steven Hawking has similar views:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapc...ipt/index.html

SH: The history of colonization on Earth, does not encourage me to think that aliens would be friendly. It would be more like the film, Independence Day, than ET.

The argument is that any one/thing that hears and has the technology to visit us will obviously be more technologically advanced (i.e the technology to come to earth from far away) and we might end up being displaced, enslaved or mistreated by colonising aliens in a similar way to the colonial empires colonised Africa, America and Australia.

[aussiblue]

And again:\\http://www.stumbleupon.com/url/www.hawking.org.uk/

If this figure is correct, it would mean that intelligent life on Earth has developed only because of the lucky chance that there have been no major collisions in the last 70 million years. Other planets in the galaxy, on which life has developed, may not have had a long enough collision free period to evolve intelligent beings. A third possibility is that there is a reasonable probability for life to form, and to evolve to intelligent beings, in the external transmission phase. But at that point, the system becomes unstable, and the intelligent life destroys itself. This would be a very pessimistic conclusion. I very much hope it isn't true. I prefer a fourth possibility: there are other forms of intelligentlife out there, but that we have been overlooked. There used to be a project called SETI, the search for extra-terrestrial intelligence. It involved scanning the radio frequencies, to see if we could pick up signals from alien civilisations. I thought this project was worth supporting, though it was cancelled due to a lack of funds. But we should have been wary of answering back, until we have develop a bit further. Meeting a more advanced civilisation, at our present stage, might be a bit like the original inhabitants of America meeting Columbus. I don't think they were better off for it.

[Geez Louise]

In Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy didn't some guy "say something" or " burp" and it started a war??

I remember getting an email with a few pics from the space station and there was something "unexplained" outside one of the windows in a pic.

Who knows!! I think it is pretty arrogant to think we are the one and only life force out there.

[b2tf]

All they have to do is broadcast Barry Manilow or something similar out there, then we're almost guaranteed to have no alien contact.

Geez Louise - bounce away

[Geez Louise]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Geez Louise - bounce away

Thanks...Will do!!!

[Duke]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

Thanks...Will do!!!

See now, I'm all inspired to go pump some more.
I need all the inspiration I can get

[Geez Louise]

After talking to Wulos...have decided to leave her be. Sorry Duke.

Getting back to topic....

[aussiblue]

I think we should minimise the risks and listen for alien life but not broadcast our prescence and invite trouble. I also thinks the risk associated with this Large Hadron Collider (LHC) project just starting to become active http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider is another case of high risk irresponsible science

Concerns have been raised that performing collisions at previously unexplored energies might unleash new and disastrous phenomena. These include the production of micro black holes, and strangelets. Such issues were raised in connection with the RHIC accelerator, both in the media[13][14] and in the scientific community [15]; however, after detailed studies, scientists reached such conclusions as "beyond reasonable doubt, heavy-ion experiments at RHIC will not endanger our planet"[16] and that there is "powerful empirical evidence against the possibility of dangerous strangelet production" [17]. One simple argument against such fears is that collisions at these energies (and higher) have been happening in nature for millennia without hazardous effects, as Ultra-high-energy cosmic rays impact Earth's atmosphere and other bodies in the universe[18]. CERN's review concludes, after detailed analysis, that "there is no basis for any conceivable threat" from strangelets, black holes, or monopoles [19][20] . Another study was commissioned by CERN in 2007 for publication on CERN's web-site by the end of 2007.


[edit] Micro Black Holes
Although the Standard Model of particle physics predicts that LHC energies are far too low to create black holes, some extensions of the Standard Model posit the existence of extra spatial dimensions, in which it would be possible to create micro black holes at the LHC [21][22][23] at a rate on the order of one per second. According to the standard calculations these are harmless because they would quickly decay by Hawking radiation. The concern is that Hawking radiation (which is still debated [24]) is not yet an experimentally-tested phenomenon, and so micro black holes might not decay as rapidly as calculated, and accumulate inside the earth and eventually devour it.


[edit] Strangelets
Main article: Strangelet
Strangelets are a hypothetical form of strange matter that contains roughly equal numbers of up, down, and strange quarks and are more stable than ordinary nuclei. If strangelets can actually exist, and if they were produced at LHC, they could conceivably initiate a runaway fusion process (reminiscent of the fictional ice-nine) in which all the nuclei in the planet were converted to strange matter, similar to a strange star.

[aussiblue]

http://www.risk-evaluation-forum.org/

Risk Evaluation Forum
Recent developments in physics suggest the possibility that an experiment, scheduled to begin at the European research facility at CERN in May 2008, will destroy the Earth. CERN is installing a new high-energy particle collider, the Large Hadron Collider (LHC). It is expected to produce particles scientists have not seen before. Two of these particles could be dangerous.

Black Holes
Several string theorists have published papers predicting that the LHC will produce mini black holes. In the worst case, a mini black hole could swallow Earth.

Strangelets
Strangelets, another potential collider product, might catalyze conversion of normal matter into more strangelets, turning Earth into a small ball of strangelets.

Safety Factors
CERN has published a paper asserting several safety factors. Black holes are supposed to dissipate via Hawking radiation. A collection of strangelets is supposed to be electrically positive on its surface, and therefore not attract other matter. However, new studies have put these safety factors in question. New physics papers question the existence of Hawking radiation. A recently published paper finds that a collection of strangelets can be negative on its surface. Other safety factors also seem subject to question. For more details, see our discussion and reference sections.

Risk Management
Proper risk management requires a formal risk assessment. CERN has done this for radiation in their tunnels, but not for black holes and strangelets. Further, a proper risk assessment requires updates when new information becomes available. We encourage CERN to do a formal risk assessment.

What You Can Do
This issue should be on the public agenda. Readers can help by thinking about, discussing, and publicizing the issue. Contact us to help with our initiatives. We also encourage more physicists to work on the issue, and we encourage funding to help them to do so. (Physicists quickly see model limiters. Consider if candidate model limiters are reliable enough to protect something as valuable as Earth. If you think you have found a sufficiently reliable model limiter, please let us know.)

[aussiblue]

Alos see http://www.misunderstooduniverse.com...ay_Machine.htm

The main purpose of this facility is to produce antimatter and black holes. A terrorist would need only half of a gram of antimatter to be equally destructive as the Hiroshima bomb. If CERN’s antimatter factory were to blow up today it would only affect the regions bordering France and Switzerland. But if CERN were to produce just one stable black hole , it could destroy the world. Surprisingly, the United States of America, through the National Science Foundation and the Department of Energy, will be funding over $1 Billion Dollars towards this French experiment into creating potentially devastating black holes.



These black holes, the densest matter in the universe, will plummet to the very core of the earth, then, slowly at first, growing one particle, one quark at a time, but at an ever accelerating rate. Scientists have estimated that a stable black hole at the center of the earth could consume not only France but the whole planet in the very short time span of between 4 minutes and 30 seconds and 7 minutes.



That age-old question: Will our planet disappear in the twinkling of an eye? - Now becomes a probability if and when the CERN facility is allowed to go on-line in 2008.

[Geez Louise]

Aussiblue...state your name and planet!!!

You know too much!!

[aussiblue]

Xyenophus 7 from the remains of Earth in the year 3008 come to warn you not to play with dangerous things you don't know enough about.

BTW Bring back the bounce - we need a poll on this issue.

[Geez Louise]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Xyenophus 7 from the remains of Earth in the year 3008 come to warn you not to play with dangerous things you don't know enough about.

BTW Bring back the bounce - we need a poll on this issue.

HaHaHa!!! Good answer. No the bounce issue is dead and buried. This is a family website and I will respect the wishes of others....

Having said that...you want the gif file I will send to you!

[Duke]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

HaHaHa!!! Good answer. No the bounce issue is dead and buried. This is a family website and I will respect the wishes of others....

Having said that...you want the gif file I will send to you!

I'll wait for the real movie to come out :

[troppo]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

I think we should minimise the risks and listen for alien life but not broadcast our prescence and invite trouble. I also thinks the risk associated with this Large Hadron Collider (LHC) project just starting to become active http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider is another case of high risk irresponsible science

I disagree, I don't think the risks are all that high or the science irresponsible. I first became interested in CERN and the LHC project a few years back while doing to research to try and better understand the physics presented in the John Titor fraud.

If you aren't familiar with it, the JT story is about a guy who appeared on the net in a few chatrooms back in 2000 and claimed to be a time traveller from the future (2036). He hung around for a few months then said he was returning to the future and stopped posting. He had a rather elaborate story to go with it all, some of which is verified by science as we know it today. Anyway, part of his story surrounding the science and workings of his time machine revolves around discoveries yet to be made at CERN which allow the technology to become a possibility. Interestingly, the machine supposedly worked using 2 rotating (Kerr) micro-black holes to form a Tippler cylinder. I couldn't actually fault the science he gave, mainly because it's all theories and nothing is tested once you get that far in. Suffice it to say the specific formula he gave is a part of one of the many variations of string theory.

CERN has been making anti-matter for years, but no big deal. It decays instantly and we're talking a few molecules at a time. It's hardly an anti-matter factory. Most of it is underground and yes that's the area that would be affected because it's built on the French-Swiss border. Even if it were to blow up during an experiment, I'd say it would be unlikely to damage anything outside the immediate area. The collision would stop working immediately and stop producing whatever is being produced at the time and as it is, even when they do succeed, antimatter and black holes decay immediately.

CERN has been the driving force behind much of todays technology, including making it possible for you and I to communicate via this medium, and nanotech. I'm quite keen to see the LHC go online, one of the planned experiments is the search for a strange particle that might possibly be responsible for mass. Imagine the implications of that...

[George1861]

Somewhere it was said that even the most powerfull signals will degrade into noise far short of the nearest star system.

[aussiblue]

disagree, I don't think the risks are all that high or the science irresponsible. I first became interested in CERN and the LHC project a few years back while doing to research to try and better understand the physics presented in the John Titor fraud.

Depends how you measure risk. I like to see it as a combination of likelihood and potential outcome. While there is a low probability of it going disasterously wrong if it it does the outcome would cataclysmic. As understand it even CERN acknowledge that there is risk, albeit extremely low, that it could be a cataclysmic failure. I'm not prepared to accept that risk. They should wait until they can be confident of a zero risk of cataclysmic failure.

[aussiblue]

Yes I agree CERN has done a lot of good things in the past.

[GK]

Originally Posted by troppo

If you aren't familiar with it, the JT story is about a guy who appeared on the net in a few chatrooms back in 2000 and claimed to be a time traveller from the future (2036). He hung around for a few months then said he was returning to the future and stopped posting. He had a rather elaborate story to go with it all, some of which is verified by science as we know it today. Anyway, part of his story surrounding the science and workings of his time machine revolves around discoveries yet to be made at CERN which allow the technology to become a possibility. Interestingly, the machine supposedly worked using 2 rotating (Kerr) micro-black holes to form a Tippler cylinder. I couldn't actually fault the science he gave, mainly because it's all theories and nothing is tested once you get that far in. Suffice it to say the specific formula he gave is a part of one of the many variations of string theory.

I don't believe it for a second.

GK

[troppo]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Depends how you measure risk. I like to see it as a combination of likelihood and potential outcome. While there is a low probability of it going disasterously wrong if it it does the outcome would cataclysmic. As understand it even CERN acknowledge that there is risk, albeit extremely low, that it could be a cataclysmic failure. I'm not prepared to accept that risk. They should wait until they can be confident of a zero risk of cataclysmic failure.

Fair enough, I'd be inclined to agree but I'm not sure zero risk is a possibilty. There is an inherent risk involved in anything, especially when it's experimental (as in never been done before) and when human calculation and judgement are involved. The best that can be done is to try and recognise and minimise those risks. I think they are doing that to the best of their abilities.