Level playing field, another bloody hypothetical

[flappist]

Well there seems to be a rather active thread in the BAR on the whole overseas shopping and tax free advantage so as this is actually a CAR forum I thought I would turn it around a bit.

So Gerry and his mate did a high court challenge to the Government rules and protectionism and got their bums handed to them in a big way.
The court rules that it was unconstitutional to restrict any trade in any way as now we are "one world" so section 92 applies to everywhere.

Of course this now applies to motor vehicles as well so anyone can import anything and drive it on our roads regardless of whether it was originally designed to be driven here.

Great cries of joy as a Nissan GTR is now $60,000, a M3 is $50,000 and mustangs start at about $30,000.
Merc and Audi sedans are in the $20-40k and chinese and korean junk, I mean "budget cars" are available for mid 4 digits.

Unfortunately the entire Australian car industry has had to move offshore sacking all of their employees but who cares....cars are heaps cheap, bloody Ford and FPV.....ripping us off for years the bastards....suck on that.
And the holden bogans.....now they are sticking lion badges on FWD pontiacs, oldsmobiles and chevrolets.

No warranty unless you buy off the actual dealer and pay full price but they will fix your broken car.....how much money do you have?

So was this a good idea?
Is the end worth the means?

And what would one of these things be without a poll....

[SSD-85]

I wish this would apply to older vehicles that are imported. Save a LOT of headaches.

As for new vehicles, I cant really comment. In the end, I would see it hurting local car manufacturers who cannot compete with slave labour rates for the "cheaper" sector.

But conversely, it would allow local manufacturers to become less complacent in the face of high quality euro-imports. Perhaps even pick up our game.
As I would assume that due to our vehicles being impossible to manufacture in the chinese price ranges, that we will target our cars to the upper range. And as a result make them more competitive to such imported models.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Scotty85

I wish this would apply to older vehicles that are imported. Save a LOT of headaches.

As for new vehicles, I cant really comment. In the end, I would see it hurting local car manufacturers who cannot compete with slave labour rates for the "cheaper" sector.

But conversely, it would allow local manufacturers to become less complacent in the face of high quality euro-imports. Perhaps even pick up our game.
As I would assume that due to our vehicles being impossible to manufacture in the chinese price ranges, that we will target our cars to the upper range. And as a result make them more competitive to such imported models.

But would you pay $100,000 (in current pricing) for a G6ET with the build quality and features of, for example, a LEXUS?

I could not imagine many would really

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by flappist

But would you pay $100,000 (in current pricing) for a G6ET with the build quality and features of, for example, a LEXUS?

I could not imagine many would really

Thats one thing we will never know for sure. Theres no doubts that Ford could produce such a car, the problem is that Australias market is too small to see any real results from it.

So that being the case, yes it would send local manufacturers into ruin if there was a significant decrease in pricing of imports.

[geckoGT]

I would have to say that as you put it would be a big no, particularly in respect to ensuring ADR compliance and lack of consumer protection through warranty.

I could see how a reduction in import taxes and tariffs plus a relaxation on LCT could benefit the aussie motorist with an increase of choices within their budget but the risk here is the aussie motor industry.

So in the absence of a suitable choice in the poll, my answer is no but it is not a firm no, I could be swayed under the right conditions.

I think this hypothetical is taking the elements of the other discussion too far.

[Ben73]

Really cheap cars from overseas sounds good.
That's all I have to say.

It's pathetic that an American car cost double here then what it does in the states.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I would have to say that as you put it would be a big no, particularly in respect to ensuring ADR compliance and lack of consumer protection through warranty.

I could see how a reduction in import taxes and tariffs plus a relaxation on LCT could benefit the aussie motorist with an increase of choices within their budget but the risk here is the aussie motor industry.

So in the absence of a suitable choice in the poll, my answer is no but it is not a firm no, I could be swayed under the right conditions.

I think this hypothetical is taking the elements of the other discussion too far.

Yes I am trying to make it the equivalent of the online overseas shopping thread.
You can import electrical gizmos that do not comply with any Australian safety standards and have no warranty so I just changed it to cars.

The warranty is from the importer and as you are the importer then the warranty is your problem. This is part of the way you save money. You can always send it back to get sorted

[Auslandau]

Cheaper BMW vs a car industry. An S/C 5.0 GT vs an AMG. Really thats all it boils down to.

[dannyhilton]

Originally Posted by flappist

And the Holden bogans.....now they are sticking lion badges on FWD Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles and Chevrolets.

Would mark a welcome change to the current trend of removing Holden badges and putting Chevrolet badges on their cars. The amount of new VE models with Pontiac badges in concerning too...

[bingoTE50]

I voted a level playing field for new vehicles but I would rather the safety comment attached to this selection. Maybe our ADR's are to high.
I am basing my selection on tariiff removal ,if there is still any ?

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Cheaper BMW vs a car industry. An S/C 5.0 GT vs an AMG. Really thats all it boils down to.

That's how it seems...... Told you blokes what would happen when you voted "Flappie" in fer PM.

[ThaFlash]

I voted hell yes and I will explain why....

I don't have enough knowledge regarding the economics of it all but it would be like Paradigm Shift forced by other factors,
like a Revolution of sorts.

Example:
Much like film became obselete when digital cameras hit the scene and Kodak workers where sacked.
Sad for the workers, but we all rejoiced in this technology at the time and still do!

I would imagine that same kind of excitement if it eventuated and we can pick up any car from around the world
brand new for half price.

In this case I could give less than a stuff about Ford, Holden or any company that has making good money of us.
They have had it all to themselves for ever and now the time has come and we have front row seats to witness
this transformation.

They too will need to step up and compete and make the GT335 $24999, YEAH!

If they can't do that, then we will have no choice but to buy M3s, Skylines etc... as the op said.

But, it's another bloody hypopathetical

[prydey]

as things stand, its a big no from me. you would kill the local industry in very short time. i don't believe they are ripping us off either. the fact is, with such a small population to offset any cost, it is expensive to manufacture in australia.

having said that, there are many companies that build cars all round the world. cars with german badges on them coming out of 3rd world countries. a lot of manufacturers build cars where it is cheap to build them. if ford shut up shop in australia, and moved its manufacturing to china or thailand, there would be a substantial decrease in the price of a new falcon. whilst this may seem like a good thing, the aussie auto industry employs 10's of 1000's of people.

on a slightly different topic, its why i think the tariffs should never have been lowered, or not as much. sure it gives consumers more choice, but there are many families that are now so much worse off because their bread winner got layed off.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by ThaFlash

I voted hell yes and I will explain why....

I don't have enough knowledge regarding the economics of it all but it would be like Paradigm Shift forced by other factors,
like a Revolution of sorts.

Example:
Much like film became obselete when digital cameras hit the scene and Kodak workers where sacked.
Sad for the workers, but we all rejoiced in this technology at the time and still do!

I would imagine that same kind of excitement if it eventuated and we can pick up any car from around the world
brand new for half price.

In this case I could give less than a stuff about Ford, Holden or any company that has making good money of us.
They have had it all to themselves for ever and now the time has come and we have front row seats to witness
this transformation.

They too will need to step up and compete and make the GT335 $24999, YEAH!

If they can't do that, then we will have no choice but to buy M3s, Skylines etc... as the op said.

But, it's another bloody hypopathetical

i do realise its only a hypothetical, but its a very selfish way to look at things. there is no way ford or holden could build their cars a lot cheaper. they don't make a lot of profit on each unit. there's no way they coud shave 45k off the price of a GT. thousands of people would be out of work due to the industry shutting down or moving off shore.

[ThaFlash]

ofcourse selfish, i buy a car for me and i use my own money and i have to balance that against my families interests, food, on the table, clothes on their back and roof over their heads.

did you think i was buying a ford for an intersection window cleaner?

hehehe.... hypothetically

[cs123]

Interesting that you quote cheap figures for prestige cars that come from countries with a higher standard of living that us.

I'd really like to know why is that. Why can you buy a BMW in the USA cheaper then here? The extra cost can't be all down to ADR compliance as a great many of ours would be less stringent than other markets. The cars sold in the USA are still warranted.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by cs123

Interesting that you quote cheap figures for prestige cars that come from countries with a higher standard of living that us.

I'd really like to know why is that. Why can you buy a BMW in the USA cheaper then here? The extra cost can't be all down to ADR compliance as a great many of ours would be less stringent than other markets. The cars sold in the USA are still warranted.

Well I would not say USA has a higher standard than us but they do have a LOT more people and a lot less "extra" taxing.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well I would not say USA has a higher standard than us but they do have a LOT more people and a lot less "extra" taxing.

So your saying all that extra cost is taxes? Won't the taxes/duties still be applicable here. It's over $1K.

This is something that I just can't get my head around. Why the massive difference in price locally compared to OS. Can someone provide a breakdown of the costs?

[Auslandau]

Just to compare ......

BMW X5 xDrive 35i in the USA - Starting at $46,300 Plus on road

BMW X5 xDrive 35i Aust - Starting at $115,000 Plus on road

Same car ..... similar cost in transport and delivery (albeit cheaper in the states because of quantity but still ... ) Difference in price is predominately taxes which are in place to protect the small (in comparison) industry here.

Close the manufacturing industry here and the protection offered by the g'ment and you could have a hell of a Beemer for Falcon money ..... but you can tell Geelong and Elizabeth to close town.

[mik]

i like haveing a motor industry in Australia, i like haveing our own car brands, commy falcon,etc,etc, and personally i`d rather have a bit of industry protection, not just cars other industry and farmers too, people want imports they can pay extra for them..........MIK for el president-ay

[Wretched]

I voted "Possibly but there would still have to be some restrictions for safety," basically I am all for it but there needs to be a line drawn in the sand in terms of safety.

I would rather we do not have cars like the Tata Nano which are suicide machines on wheels. We'd need at least a 4 star rating minimum.

[ltd]

Considering the level of taxes aimed at the automotive world, I'm rather scared of a government which heavily borrows money from China doing away with a source of tax revenue. It simply means they'll apply tax somewhere else which could be even more broad based and hurt alot more people who can least afford it.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by ltd

Considering the level of taxes aimed at the automotive world, I'm rather scared of a government which heavily borrows money from China doing away with a source of tax revenue. It simply means they'll apply tax somewhere else which could be even more broad based and hurt alot more people who can least afford it.

Yep, like for example annually taxing the increase in value of the family home, currently tax free. Even if you dont sell, you could still have to pay the increase in its unrealised value.

Some cans, are best left unopened.

[vanman_75]

This would force australia into being a non producer and non employment country , lowering wages and all of our living conditions ...just to be competetive . big no from me , remember you need to earn money to spend money ,and i am guessing that if you asked any low income earner( india / african lower class for example) if they would be able to buy a 30 thousand dollar mustang and it makes me think that we sorta got our economy and taxes somewhere about right . T

he huge differences in price does annoy me but i like australia the way it is and try not to support slave wage countries and their products . the multi nationals that own half our country and its assets now bother me ... im not the smartest in the bunch but ,my thoughts are dont open the gate because you wont be able to shut them even if you wanted too.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Just to compare ......

BMW X5 xDrive 35i in the USA - Starting at $46,300 Plus on road

BMW X5 xDrive 35i Aust - Starting at $115,000 Plus on road

So for this car if we didn't have the luxury car tax
115,000 - 19,008 = 95,992
Without GST
95,992 - 5219 = 90,773
Without QLD duty
$87,281

So that's the car completely tax/duty free if my calculations are accurate. Which they are probably not;)

So that means that the Aus car costs 180% of the USA car, so where does that additional cost come from?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by cs123

So for this car if we didn't have the luxury car tax
115,000 - 19,008 = 95,992
Without GST
95,992 - 5219 = 90,773
Without QLD duty
$87,281

So that's the car completely tax/duty free if my calculations are accurate. Which they are probably not;)

So that means that the Aus car costs 180% of the USA car, so where does that additional cost come from?

Excise and import duties, freight....

[aussie muscle]

The tariffs were originally put in place to help our economy to recover from WW2. it made imported cars so expensive that three american manufacturers built factories here to produce cars locally from imported and local parts.

The problem with 'level playing field' is it's always been one way only, we remove more protection that usa and europe and end up getting the dirty end of the stick. we should remove protections, but so should everyone else.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Excise and import duties, freight....

10% tariff, we're down to around $79K. Freight, let's be generous and say it costs $10K more for us to freight a car than it does the USA. $69K.

Still a big difference that I can't account for.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by cs123

10% tariff, we're down to around $79K. Freight, let's be generous and say it costs $10K more for us to freight a car than it does the USA. $69K.

Still a big difference that I can't account for.

It is related to sales volume, and lack of it here in Australia compared to the USA.

The price of a car has to cover the bulk of the companies operations - not just the car itself. Costs like marketing, advertising, accounting and general business functions, spare parts inventory, ongoing technician training, warranty, plus more that I wouldn't know about.

All of these costs are covered by sales revenue. Look up how many X5's BMW sell in the USA in a typical year compared to here, that'll go a long way to explaining the price difference.

Having said all that, I agree the price difference is probably still bigger than it needs to be.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by cs123

10% tariff, we're down to around $79K. Freight, let's be generous and say it costs $10K more for us to freight a car than it does the USA. $69K.

Still a big difference that I can't account for.

USD to AUD conversion, RHD version premium..