Another Ford milestone no one was expecting

Ohio XB · 20-03-2009, 09:40 PM

I received a letter today stating that the Econoline full-sized van that we build at the plant I work at has achieved a 61.2/1000 rating of "repairs at 3 months in service". This was in October of 2008.

Year to date rating for the same characteristic was 71.2/1000. There was an increase because in September we started building a new model year vehicle with quite a bit of changes.

So what does all this mean?

Basically, to begin with, Ford is in a dead heat in quality with the best in the business, overall. The "TGW", or "Things Gone Wrong" level for Initial Quality is about 1.2 per vehicle among the top quality producers, Ford included.

The Econoline is at a quality level of .061 warrantee repairs per vehicle at 3 months in service. I don't know that this level of quality has ever been achieved in the US before, or at least by any company building vehicles here.

Benny Fowler, the head Quality guy at Ford, stated last year that Ford was going to achieve a .850 TGW Initial Quality rating on their vehicles in order to surpass the competition, a level never before achieved by anyone. Many laughed.

Well, we're getting the last laugh.

Or plant recently received the award for the Best In Class by J.D. Power and Associates, a Superior Quality award from U-Haul, Ford's #1 fleet customer, and now a company award for the lowest warrantee repairs (r/1000) in North America. U-Haul also announced that they were going to be replacing their aged GM trucks with Ford F-550's because of this quality demonstration.

It's real.

Steve

plext · 20-03-2009, 09:51 PM

Nice to see people, real people, getting together and combatting the doomsayers by pulling together and making real improvement in product.

It shows that real gains can be made if people are willing to work towards it and we are not yet nearly at the end of the road for vehicle production in developed nations.

Congratulations to all involved.

**russellw** · 20-03-2009, 09:56 PM

Excellent work. It is indeed a cause for celebration - we get so used to considering that the mainstream manufacturers like Ford US cannot achieve the quality levels of the Japanese and European competition and this result shows that this is not the case.

Cheers
Russ

imugli · 20-03-2009, 10:13 PM

Steve,

Congrats to you and all your workmates. In a world of nonstop bad news about your competition, Ford are making real progress and showing not only the other 2 US makers, but the internationals how it's done as well.

Well Done!

mcnamg · 20-03-2009, 11:10 PM

Can you send some of the quality guys down here to get the levels down here the same so we all can avoid Ford service departments like the plague

Bossxr8 · 21-03-2009, 10:29 AM

Thats the problem, since Ford Australia have very little money, quality improvement programs aren't getting the money they need to improve. Its pretty obvious, just look at the number of well known problems such as brake hoses, rust and ball joint failures on Territory's etc, that don't get fixed. I wish Detroit would step in here and start helping FoA do what they have done.

Ohio XB · 21-03-2009, 01:51 PM

Thank you everyone. I didn't do it all myself though. :P

You know, it isn't as much about money as you might think. I believe it is more about people's feet being held to the fire and being held more accountable.

On top of this is the quality that the workers always wanted to build to but were not given the support by management to do so. When the boss doesn't seem to care, how much can you care when you are otherwise helpless to make an improvement without your boss taking action on the quality concern you've found? I believe that Alan Mulally (you will continue to see me praise him) is the one that got all of management to "understand", or else.

I've typed a number of times saying that this Ford is not like the Ford of a few years ago, and believe me, that is not just a catch phrase. It used to be "business as usual, build the vehicle however it comes out and get it out the door". Now it's "Hey, why is this here not right? Are any of the others affected? Let's find and contain any that have this problem so they can be fixed and get some new stock over here with good parts."

People are jumping. People are following through. Things happen now, not later. EVERYBODY wants to know how to fix the problem, and you would think my boss' job depended on every concern because that is how dilligent he is to see it gets taken care of.

.......and they used to just print up a lot of graphs to pass out while they drank their coffee at the meetings......

Steve

XR Martin · 21-03-2009, 06:34 PM

They've been building the Econoline for so long the workers should be able to assemble it blindfolded ;)

Falc'man · 21-03-2009, 07:47 PM

:

vztrt · 21-03-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Thats the problem, since Ford Australia have very little money, quality improvement programs aren't getting the money they need to improve. Its pretty obvious, just look at the number of well known problems such as brake hoses, rust and ball joint failures on Territory's etc, that don't get fixed. I wish Detroit would step in here and start helping FoA do what they have done.

Quality improvement should have been happening during the good time, or they wouldn't be where they are now.

A good experience in a falcon will do more for sales then any ad on tv.

XR8putts · 22-03-2009, 01:41 PM

Well done, great to hear.

Ohio XB · 22-03-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Quality improvement should have been happening during the good time, or they wouldn't be where they are now.

You've got that right. Unfortunately during that time the floor level management were informed that they would only be around for about a year and a half. I don't know the details behind that. Anyways, these managers decided to do what would make them look the best and improve their chances of being the few that would still be around. How did they do that?

By saving the company a lot of money and showing that they could stick to a budget as well as come in under budget. How did they do that?

Equipment that needed to be replaced wasn't.

Preventive maintenance that was to be done regularly wasn't.

Repair parts that needed to be bought weren't.

And on and on and on. After a year to a year and a half was up our plant was saving Ford a lot of money. Unfortunately it wasn't making money because the vehicle repair rate, both in and out of the plant, went way up. Equipment got in really bad condition. I don't have to tell you the rest.

On the same note, what fixed this situation? Alan Mulally. 'Nuff said.

Yeah, you would think the people on the line would be able to build the vehicle with their eyes close. Seriously, many can. I've been there and tried it to see if it was possible, and after doing something a couple hundred thousand times, yes, you can. For the 2009 model year though there were a LOT of changes, probably the most since the redesign for 1992, so there are many new parts or changed parts that weren't installed before.

Here's a fun fact. The current revision of the econoline, revamped for the 1992 model year, has been built on the same tooling since late 1991. A few years ago the Weld Engineer and I did some math and figured more than 3 million vans have been built with this tooling. Here's the kicker. The tooling was engineered to go only 4 to 5 years, the industry standard. It has been 18 years now. That's getting your money's worth.

Steve

RATT · 22-03-2009, 11:09 PM

Great news. I can also say that there has been a huge leap in quality in the FG Falcon as well for Ford Australia.
All this stuff will pay huge dividends in the future..

Smoke Pursuit · 22-03-2009, 11:18 PM

Im with Ratt..

I would love to see the same figures on FG Verse BA... I really cant Fault either of my FG's asside from them both needing firmware upgrades for the Iphone, which really isnt an issue as they are both 08 cars..

Well done Ford US.

Scott · 22-03-2009, 11:28 PM

I get more and more confidence in Ford as time goes on - refreshing after years of getting angrier and angrier.

Bossxr8 · 23-03-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RATT

Great news. I can also say that there has been a huge leap in quality in the FG Falcon as well for Ford Australia.
All this stuff will pay huge dividends in the future..

The quality has been achieved at the design stage, making sure everything works the way it should or fits properly. Not much had to changed once they went into production, which is a change for the better.

Better to get the designs right from the start rather than try to fix it later.

steve.zissou · 24-03-2009, 01:50 PM

Not to be a negative nancy but....

If your dealer said theres no problem or "thats how just it is" at the 3k service. The problem wouldn't register- correct?

Now I love my FG but at the 1500 km service I said that
* my gearbox sounds like its full of marbles at low rpm- dealer said thats normal
*Driveline backlash clunkity clunk clunk - - dealer said thats normal
*wiper washers work 1/2 the time - no fault found (and charged for looking at it)
etc etc.

so none of this would have been reported as an issue back to the number crunchers = 100% build quality.

Police do this alot - stop arresting people and crime figures go down.

but i guess if youve always done this then the figures would atleast show a trend right?

Ohio XB · 25-03-2009, 04:23 AM

What you stated does occur at some dealerships on both sides of the pond, but I am sure they are a minority and hopefully not prevelent enough to be a factor.

I don't know why a dealership would do this, but I know it happens. The repair would be covered by Ford so it is no money out of their pocket.

Steve

greenfoam · 25-03-2009, 10:15 AM

Australian Fords have never really been any good quality wise (famously bad rusters), but they have slowly been improving ever since the AU's came off the factory trucks rusting allready

, I think fixing all those must have cost Ford alot of money. Hopefully with the FG the situation is fixed and in the long term they can gain a reputation for quality

vztrt · 25-03-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

What you stated does occur at some dealerships on both sides of the pond, but I am sure they are a minority and hopefully not prevelent enough to be a factor.

I don't know why a dealership would do this, but I know it happens. The repair would be covered by Ford so it is no money out of their pocket.

Steve

Unfortunately the dealer here doesn't know how to fix some common issues with the car (or they can but ford wont authorise it) so they use the excuse 'they all do it'.

Greanfoam - not like commodores have been a shining beacon of quality either.

irlewy86 · 25-03-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Australian Fords have never really been any good quality wise (famously bad rusters), but they have slowly been improving ever since the AU's came off the factory trucks rusting allready

, I think fixing all those must have cost Ford alot of money. Hopefully with the FG the situation is fixed and in the long term they can gain a reputation for quality

Call me crazy but I thought the Camira holds that title?

mcnamg · 25-03-2009, 01:34 PM

Yeah well not surprised the Camira is a big ruster when something is exposed to salt water like a boat anchor normally is it tends to rust quickly.

On the dealer front this is why I hate dealing with Ford's warranty department its the attitude of oh thats normal dont worry about it and then when you have a major failure as a result they try to weasel out of it saying you should have brought it in sooner.

eb2fairmont · 25-03-2009, 09:44 PM

And this sort of customer service means more toyotas are sold over time as people get jack of the usual "they all do that" line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrckelley

Not to be a negative nancy but....

If your dealer said theres no problem or "thats how just it is" at the 3k service. The problem wouldn't register- correct?

Now I love my FG but at the 1500 km service I said that
* my gearbox sounds like its full of marbles at low rpm- dealer said thats normal
*Driveline backlash clunkity clunk clunk - - dealer said thats normal
*wiper washers work 1/2 the time - no fault found (and charged for looking at it)
etc etc.

so none of this would have been reported as an issue back to the number crunchers = 100% build quality.

Police do this alot - stop arresting people and crime figures go down.

but i guess if youve always done this then the figures would atleast show a trend right?

greenfoam · 26-03-2009, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Unfortunately the dealer here doesn't know how to fix some common issues with the car (or they can but ford wont authorise it) so they use the excuse 'they all do it'.

Greanfoam - not like commodores have been a shining beacon of quality either.

No Commodores are badly built too

but they haven't been prone to rust since the VL and especailly since the VR/S, during all that time they have been much much better body wise than the Falcons. It's true the Camira was the crapest car mechanically ever made, I nearly had a heart attack from the excitment of seeing one the other day in almost showroom condition! a very rare sight. I don't think the Camira rusts any worse than the VB-VL Commodores which is still a bit better than your typical EA Falcon. I have a 1983 VH here that has less rust in it than my parents AU (which like most AU's allready had extensive rust repairs under warrenty)

I was lucky enough to take a tour of Holden engine company and see the engine production line for the family 2 engine during the early Camira days, very rough to say the least

, I thought to myself no wonder these things break so much. The ability of an dud older model affecting current/future sales shouldn't be underestimated

Ohio XB · 28-03-2009, 02:21 AM

Do the Ford's there get an "E-Coat" process to aid in rust prevention? This is a layer that has really exponentially increased the resistance for rust in US cars. Basically some kind of chemical is electro-plated onto the vehicle by dipping it completely in a tank and passing an electric current through it. Then it gets rinsed and baked. Then it goes on to paint.

Steve

Walt Kowalski · 28-03-2009, 05:10 AM

Is the E 350 an econoline? Not sure.

I had an E350 in Alaska with a 24 foot RV.

Man it was awesome.

V10 petrol auto

Cruised at 75MPH comfortably.

Easy to drive.

Comfortable.

Safe.

A few years old with 98,000 miles on the clock.

More economical than a 3 litre Mitsubishi diesel I had in NZ recently. It had 89,000 KILOMETRES - about 60,000 miles? - but was worn out

Sucked juice. Gutless. Noisy. Hard to drive. Tiresome. Pathtic ergonomiocs. Unsafe through corners. I could go on and on.

It was absolute rubbish.

A classic case of Japanese being inferior.

But people buy Toyotas etc because they THINK they are better made.

That was the case 10 years ago but I know that with the FG Falcon, Ford has a MUCH better product than, say the Toyota Aurion and at least similar build quality.

Walt Kowalski must be crying in his grave.

Walt Kowalski · 28-03-2009, 05:16 AM

Double post sorry!

**Bluehoon** · 28-03-2009, 03:01 PM

Ohio XB, are you referring to galvinising the body? Sounds like process of galvinisation to me..

ford don't "gal dip" the chassis, it's just undercoat / primer paint and clear straight onto the chassis. open to be corrected though.
Agreed, this is the sole reason for the prevelaint rust issues. I believe it's common practise with european cars due to the snow and salt conditions..

Cheers

Ohio XB · 29-03-2009, 03:08 AM

No, not galvanizing. I believe it is some sort of phosphous layer. The vehicle comes out with a drab olive green color from this process. It's not zinc.

Yes, the E-350 is an Econoline. There are the E-150, E-250, E-350, and E-450. For a short period they made an E-550.

A couple years ago Ford did away with the E-150 chassis. Now when you get an E-150 you get the E-250 chassis.

The Econoline is a very stout vehicle able to haul quite a bit of weight, over 6,500 pounds I believe and can tow more than that.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/eseries/

Besides the regular and extended length vans there are also cut-a-ways that are used to make all sorts of specialty vehicles where there is basically just a cab and a bare chassis sold to an upfitter that then buils it into a bus, ambulance, utility vehicle, or something else. Ford also produces just a bare chassis (no cab but driving controls are there) that are used for recreational vehicles (RV's) or other camper style vehicles.

This is the current front end style...

Steve

Bossxr8 · 29-03-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Do the Ford's there get an "E-Coat" process to aid in rust prevention? This is a layer that has really exponentially increased the resistance for rust in US cars. Basically some kind of chemical is electro-plated onto the vehicle by dipping it completely in a tank and passing an electric current through it. Then it gets rinsed and baked. Then it goes on to paint.

Steve

Yes the body shells go through a chemical bath before they are painted, but I can't remember what it is they dip them in. Pretty sure an electric current is passed through too, so it must be a similar process to what you guys use.