PowerShift gearbox problems

Caydus · 07-11-2011, 04:47 PM

For convenience issues, I’ve decided to start a new thread as a continuation to the thread I hijacked here regarding the PowerShift transmission issues and warranty saga I’ve been going through.

Basically the issue is that a grinding, burbling slipping noise comes from the transmission when 3 parameters are met:

The transmission is hot (after about 10 minutes of continuous city driving)
RPMs are around 1,500 rpm – 2,500 rpm, most prevalent and obvious around the 1,750 rpm range.
Is in 2nd gear and 4th gear

Booked in my first appointment with my dealer on the 20th of Oct and all they did was update the PCM, did nothing for my problem.

Went back again on 2nd of Nov and this time did a drive around the block with one of their mechanics to show them the issue and convinced him it was an issue and he was pretty adamant in saying that this wasn’t a characteristic of the car and there definitely was something wrong with it.
He originally thought it was a problem with ‘the solenoid that’s part of each clutch’. So they swapped these ‘solenoids’. I had to use the car that night and most of the week so they let me drive it away that night.

They said that after this change, the problem should start occurring in 1st, 3rd and 5th gear instead of 2nd and 4th.
So I’ve been driving it around all week, but the problem is still exactly the same, in 2nd and 4th.

Took it into the shop again this morning and speaking to the mechanic who rode in the car with me the last time, he said most likely it’s going to be an internal gearbox thing instead of the ‘solenoid’ which I assume infers that the ‘solenoid’ is some sort of control mechanism external to the gearbox itself.
Latest update I got was that ‘the gearbox is coming out’ so they could check up on its internals.

Always thought the PowerShift gearbox was a sealed unit, welded shut from the factory, so not sure what’s going on at the moment.

Fez WQ · 07-11-2011, 09:36 PM

Its sealed..... but still just bolted on. Most cars are like that. Sealed means it does not need servicing for the life of it. There would be no dip stick or filler hole. Therefore its sealed

- I hope you get it sorted out anyway.

Caydus · 07-11-2011, 10:31 PM

So sealed doesn't mean welded shut. It can still be broken down for repair?

Caydus · 08-11-2011, 09:57 AM

Got an update from the dealer this morning.

Looks like what happened was that clutch #2 blew an oil seal, causing oil to leak onto the dry clutch.
They're going to replace the whole clutch assembly for #2 and it's being flown in from Melbourne. Should get here tomorrow.

Fiestaman · 08-11-2011, 10:03 AM

Fez is correct - the box does not need any fluid change or servicing during it's life but can come apart for repairs. The noises you hear have also been reported in USA and boxes have been replaced under warranty over there.
In addition to the problems with my gearbox mentioned in another thread I have strange whirrs and clicks from 1st to 2nd and 3rd - no grinding noises though.
Let us know what transpires as it seems the Ford dealer has acknowledged that this is not normal which is the first step in getting it rectified.

See below:
http://www.dailytech.com/Consumers+N...ticle21954.htm

And a quote from Ford in USA:
"SOME 2011 FIESTA VEHICLES, EQUIPPED WITH AN AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION AND BUILT ON OR BEFORE 1/13/2011 MAY EXHIBIT A RATTLE, GRIND, OR SYNCRO NOISE IN FORWARD GEARS. SOME VEHICLES MAY ALSO EXHIBIT A GRIND NOISE IN REVERSE THAT STILL EXISTS AFTER TSB 11-3-33 HAS BEEN PERFORMED. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REPAIR THE VEHICLE UNLESS TRANS FLUID LEAK IS PRESENT. ENGINEERING IS INVESTIGATING. MONITOR OASIS FOR UPDATES. EFFECTIVE DATE: 06/13/2011"

Fiesta God · 09-11-2011, 02:45 PM

Sounds like your dealer has been extremely helpful and quite active in getting the problem solved for you.

It's seems these are a bit like the DSG gearboxes on Golf's ... they either completely die and need replacement in the first 10-20,000kms, or they go on to last for 500 years with no problems ...

Caydus · 09-11-2011, 06:30 PM

Yea, they haven't stalled me at any point and genuinely seem to be following the script set out by Ford for a warranty claim.

Plug: City Ford Zetland

They just gave me an update today and it looks like they weren't able to locate a clutch assembly anywhere in Australia and it may need to be shipped in from overseas and may take a couple weeks for that to happen.
My car's on the garage floor with the transmission in lots of little pieces at the moment so they won't be able to put it together again until they have the new part.

In the meantime, they say they will be applying with Ford to set me up with a hire car at Ford's expense. Should be hearing from them again tomorrow morning.

Fiesta_Man69 · 09-11-2011, 06:45 PM

Ford Aus can easily and therefore should be giving the dealership the go ahead to use a new dsg gearbox off a WT they have in stock: if it's coming from o/s it can take months.

Caydus · 09-11-2011, 07:00 PM

Yea, that would be the smart and quick way of doing it, but the department of bureaucracy dictates...

I'm not too fussed if i get a hire car to do whatever i want with for that time, but if not...

Fiesta_Man69 · 10-11-2011, 09:18 AM

Watch the insurance excess disclaimer with the 'free' car - when I got one when my fiesta was getting its rusted parts replaced the excess was $4K.... i.e. if you have an at fault accident (or if the other party isn't insured) or the car gets stolen/damaged etc. you're up for big bucks...

Caydus · 10-11-2011, 12:51 PM

The update for this morning was that the clutch assembly won’t arrive till after the 25th of this month. So in the mean-time they’ve given me a hire car from Hertz and I’ll be picking that up at 2pm this arvo.

Thanks for the heads-up there FM69, I’ll be sure to check up on the excess to make sure I don’t get burned…

trumpy73 · 10-11-2011, 01:26 PM

it's easy to reduce the stupid excesses that hire companies charge. They do offer the option by increasing the daily rate by approx $20. Just go with that and get Ford to pay for it.

Fiesta_Man69 · 10-11-2011, 09:58 PM

The hire car I got was a demo in dale fords yard. I presume this is what will be happening here too as it effectively costs the company nothing: there is nothing you can do to reduce the excess - it is a flat rate; it is nothing like avis etc.

trumpy73 · 11-11-2011, 02:31 PM

he said HERTZ

Caydus · 11-11-2011, 02:46 PM

Yep, as obviously so, City Ford/all Ford dealers are separate entities from FoMoCo and are only resellers of their product.
As this is a warranty job and you could probably technically call City Ford as being contracted by Ford to conduct their warranty repairs. City Ford requested a hire car on my behalf to FoMoCo.

Incidentally, City Ford have their own hire car service available for a fee of $55 a day. But Ford decided not to use their services too and went for Hertz instead.

So they've put me up in a 2009 Toyota Camry with a $770 excess. I can't complain, City Ford and Ford have been quite reasonable so far and have done right by me given the nature of their relationship and the process they have to follow for warranty repairs.

Fiesta_Man69 · 12-11-2011, 12:58 PM

Sorry my bad; missed it. You got a better deal than me - here's hoping you get your car back faster than me as well

Caydus · 16-11-2011, 09:22 PM

I guess I'm 'lucky' and City Ford seem to be genuinely a pretty decent dealership which does things by the book, they're constrained by Ford's guidelines, but they do try to help and have a vested interest in getting issues sorted.

As for the hire car, it's typical big hire car company fashion, Hertz. But Ford's got the bill and most of the admin stuff. All I had to do was the usual, pick up the hire car, inspect for existing damage, sign off with the office and there's the car, a 2009 Toyota Camry.

Driving the Camry around now really rams home the feeling of how small the Fiesta is, how maneuverable and easily parkable the thing is, having almost exclusively driven small cars for the past 2 years.

It also really shows how gutless the Fiesta is, but also how linear the power comes to it. As the RPMs rise, so does the amount of power the Fiesta gives.
Seems like the Camry, as well as most other japanese cars frontload most of the torque in the first 3,500 RPM or so, then power gains after that seem minimal.

117kW pulling 1,500kg of the Camry though feels so much quicker off the mark than 89kW pulling 1,125kg of Fiesta. It's power to weight is only just a little bit better, but by the seat of the pants it feels so much more powerful.

vhcbm · 17-11-2011, 12:40 AM

Have you fallen asleep yet? Or even understeered into the gutter or a parked car if you were lucky. Gee I hated it when I took one for a drive but I did only have the base model. and it was in New Zealand but that makes no difference, the Mazda 6 was sooooo much better!

Good to see City Ford are being helpful, seems to be a first for them. If you do run into problems let me know and I might be able to get you help from someone else!

Oriory · 17-11-2011, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caydus

It also really shows how gutless the Fiesta is, but also how linear the power comes to it. As the RPMs rise, so does the amount of power the Fiesta gives.
Seems like the Camry, as well as most other japanese cars frontload most of the torque in the first 3,500 RPM or so, then power gains after that seem minimal.

117kW pulling 1,500kg of the Camry though feels so much quicker off the mark than 89kW pulling 1,125kg of Fiesta. It's power to weight is only just a little bit better, but by the seat of the pants it feels so much more powerful.

I find your comments interesting, I love my little Fez, I went from a V8 Fairmont to it. I also weigh 150kg & find the Fez has plenty of guts, sure it's no V8 but I recently drove from Canberra to Bermagui & back & I have never had so much fun. I drive a manual Zetec by the way. If i need more power as the engine gets older I'll just slap a supercharger on it

Fiesta_Man69 · 17-11-2011, 08:14 AM

Yes, the Camry might be a tad better off the line, but chuck it through some twisty bits and all hell breaks loose - it was built to be rented (like in Caydus' case) or bought by people who see cars as whitegoods with the concept of 'driving' or 'enjoyment' being totally alien..... At least Caydus can hand it back after a good thrashing and get back a 'real' car....

Ms_Jam · 17-11-2011, 10:15 AM

I am amazed to see people describe the Fiesta as gutless.

I have a WS Zetec manual. Yesterday I drove to Geelong, Ballarat and back to Melbourne with a bootful of audio/visual equipment. My problem is keeping this little hero within the speed limit if I am not using cruise control.

Even at the lights, i have humiliated a few newish Golfs. And on the roundabouts it just pulls away from more than a few Beemers (1's and 3's).

I sometimes wonder if it's my car, or whether there are a lot of under-serviced automatics out there running the cheapest fuel they can find.

I have always used BP Ultimate in my Fiesta. The engine oil is Castrol Edge Sport. And recently (at 30,000) I had the transmission oil changed to Castrol Syntrans. I have had the air filter changed at every service. (OK, I know I could put in a K&N filter, but I do not want to be bothered with handling oil).

Anyway, my little Fiesta just hums! And it has plenty of guts.

vhcbm · 17-11-2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms_Jam

I sometimes wonder if it's my car, or whether there are a lot of under-serviced automatics out there running the cheapest fuel they can find.

I have always used BP Ultimate in my Fiesta. The engine oil is Castrol Edge Sport. And recently (at 30,000) I had the transmission oil changed to Castrol Syntrans. I have had the air filter changed at every service. (OK, I know I could put in a K&N filter, but I do not want to be bothered with handling oil).

It's not what you drive...It's how you drive it ;) Drive the 1.6 manual though and you will hate the auto.

As for the filter the K&N's barely have to be oiled but for what they're worth you could get the full Pipercross kit it sounds fantastic and has a long last filter in it as well. You would also be able to save on servicing as you wouldn't need to pay for a new filter each time.

Caydus · 17-11-2011, 11:54 PM

It's definately in the way you drive it. Even with the autos, you could always keep it in "L" and handle the throttle agressively and you get pleanty of power, it's just that at those RPMs, it defeats the purpose of a Fez with the fuel consumption and it's a loud little buzzbox.

To be honest, I don't think you really could 'humiliate' anyone on public roads unless they have given you the sign that they are specifically taking you on.

Also, the newer Golfs these days have pretty similar power/weight to the Fiesta at the 1.4l Turbo engine choice, though there is a 1.2l Turbo which is worse and a 2L NA which is better, in short, lots of different engines in those things so it's hard to say.
The manual Fezs though, do have a little bit of an advantage as the DSG setup is quite heavy, making the Auto 39kg heavier than the manual.

The Pipercross kit does sound pretty interesting though. They have a version (not the exposed cone filter version) which just replaces the lower airbox and introduces another CAI on top of a shortened version of the stock CAI. Looks absolutely stock when you just pop the hood, but it gives it one of the better sounding induction roars out there and apparently has a pretty sizable performance gain.
Not sure if they sell them in Aus and not sure if it could technically be called a closed airbox after that and thus, whether it's legal in NSW.

Ms_Jam · 18-11-2011, 02:32 PM

Here's a recent personal comparison with my manual Fiesta.

A fortnight ago I drove to Ballarat and back in a hired automatic Lancer. It had only 871 km on the clock. So here is a new car with an engine 25 per cent bigger, and according to Mitusbishi's website, with 25 per cent more power (sorry, I'm unsure about how to compare weights).

Anyway, it had noticeably less guts than my little Fiesta. I don't think I was imagining it.

And by the way, on this point:

Quote:

I don't think you really could 'humiliate' anyone on public roads unless they have given you the sign that they are specifically taking you on

The answer of course is female intuition!

Caydus · 06-12-2011, 12:29 AM

So took delivery of the car today after it's been fixed.

Shifts are now much smoother and less jarring, easier to control too.

There are substantial power gains, though it's been a month since i've driven it, it's hard to say.

The whole car feels so much more 'together' and 'snug' compared to the Toyotas.

It's not a complete win however. Now i have a whirring, metal sliding on metal (best described as two snug aluminium tubes, one inside the other spinning in opposite directions), whistling sound coming out of the engine bay.
The interior creaks and groans like an old wooden ship every time i go around a corner, hit a undulation in the road or just go over a speed hump.

Overall, City Ford Zetland have treated me great from the administrative and customer service side of things. Always kept me in the loop with new developments, was prompt and fair about a hire car and always friendly and willing to pick up the phone.

However, their worksmanship, attention to detail and pride in their trade... well lets describe it as a lack thereof.

Fiestaman · 07-12-2011, 10:24 AM

Do you know what parts they replaced? Should imagine at least the clutch plates as they would have been contaminated by the oil leak. Do you now get smooth changes from 1st to 2nd and did they find any other faults that could have caused the problem?

Caydus · 07-12-2011, 01:02 PM

Looks like the driver's power window's auto close feature isn't working either now. If i push it down till it clicks, it'll go down on it's own automatically, if i pull up till it clicks, it doesn't do any more than move up until my finger is off the switch.

Srsly... WTF?

It was a transmission repair, not a "lets scuttle this car for spare parts" exercise...

I'll post the list of repairs they did when i get the list at home, though i remember upon looking at it, nothing looked out of the ordinary for the repairs stated.

Fiesta_Man69 · 07-12-2011, 03:43 PM

Ah, City Ford Zetland: no real surprises, unfortunately. Didn't realise the power windows were connected to the transmission but you learn something everyday...

ellwa · 07-12-2011, 05:29 PM

I had a problem with my power windows for a while. but they came good after a while. same problems you're describing.

you may have a moist board in the arm rest, if a small amount of rain got into the switch panel perhaps...

Caydus · 07-12-2011, 06:39 PM

Yea, it's been raining a fair bit recently in Sydney, maybe, don't know.

Anyway, this is what i got in the warranty receipt:

Quote:

Job# 1 06FOAUTOERRATZZ AUTO ERRATTIC CHANGE

RTY GRINDING NOISE WHEN CHANGING GEARS
REPLACED LEAKING INPUT SHAFT SEAL AND CLUTCH ASSEMBLY.
REFIT ALL REMOVED AND TESTED OK

FOAEBP7064BB SNAP RING x2
FOAEBP7052AB SEAL OIL x1
FOAEBP704BAA SEAL OIL x1
FOAEBP7917AA SNAP RING x1
FOAEBP7064AA SNAP RING x1
F07U7JM2C200BA OIL - TRANSMISSION x2
FOBV6Z7B546A CLUTCH ASSEMBLY x1
FOBV6Z7A50BA CYLINDER CLUTCH SLY x1

Job# 2 22FONORECALLSZZ

NO RECALLS
NO RECALLS