HDT Cup NEW LOW COST RACE SERIES

Walt Kowalski · 29-05-2009, 08:11 AM

[font='Times New Roman','serif']A new category will join the Independent Race Series ranks in the very near future.

HDT manager Darren Gillis raced with the series at Oran Park, and has offered his support to a new category for the Independent Race Series.

The new category will be known as the "HDT Cup" and will cater for Commodores from the following models: VB/VC/VH/VK and VL.

The cars eligble will be divided into classes according to their engine capacity, with classes designated as follows:[/font]

·[font='Times New Roman','serif'] Class A will be for the 308 and Chev V8's[/font]

·[font='Times New Roman','serif'] Class B for the 253 V8[/font]

·[font='Times New Roman','serif'] Class C for V6 and Straight Six cylinder cars
[/font][font='Times New Roman','serif']Laurie Betland from Super Hoist Plus has put his support behind the concept and will host a get together for all interested competitors at his business premises at Lot 3 Sagewick Place Moss Vale [off Lackey St] on Friday 5th Of June at 5pm.

Laurie will have a BBQ and informal meeting to launch the exciting new category.

HDT will provide Trophies and HDT rear quarter and windscreen stickers for the category.

Competitors interested in the HDT Cup can contact Laurie Betland on 02 4860 3333 or 0411 176 382. [/font]

[font='Times New Roman','serif'][/font][font='Times New Roman','serif'][/font]

Airmon · 29-05-2009, 02:52 PM

Sounds good, but I'm not for pushing VB/C/K/Ls prices up anymore then they are already rising.
HQ racing must be getting a bit too expensive.

phillyc · 29-05-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

The new category will be known as the "HDT Cup" and will cater for Commodores from the following models: VB/VC/VH/VK and VL.

Class C for V6 and Straight Six cylinder cars

V6 was never launched in any of those models...

LOCO XP · 29-05-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

V6 was never launched in any of those models...

Also not aware of Chev V8 powered commodores from that era

Jesk · 29-05-2009, 05:14 PM

well i dont see it saying stock engine, DOHC ford 4L in a lightweigth VB would go like the clappers

**DJM83** · 29-05-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOCO XP

Also not aware of Chev V8 powered commodores from that era

I wonder if they are allowing cars with aftermarket 350cid engines to enter.

Walt Kowalski · 29-05-2009, 08:39 PM

I have no idea what the answers are but keep the questions coming and I will get some answers.

phillyc · 29-05-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesk

well i dont see it saying stock engine, DOHC ford 4L in a lightweigth VB would go like the clappers

Now wouldn't that peeve them off! Non stock engine. A Ford engine at that, plus something that has the best part of double or triple the power!!!!

Walt Kowalski · 29-05-2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

Now wouldn't that peeve them off! Non stock engine. A Ford engine at that, plus something that has the best part of double or triple the power!!!!

Sounds like a good idea but probably will not be allowed as they are all holden fanatics no matter how many gay Torana jokes I tell them.

Scott · 29-05-2009, 09:18 PM

Good, cheap formula. I had thought a series like this would pop up soon enough, it should be a great category.

LOCO XP · 29-05-2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP006

Good, cheap formula. I had thought a series like this would pop up soon enough, it should be a great category.

I'll second that. A real can of worms re: V6 and Chev V8's, be interesting to see how that all unfolds, but would be nice to see a category of racecars that would be competitive at a lower budget than late model exotics and V8 supercars. Getting back to grass roots racing would for me be a lot more interesting than the current racing options. Hopefully there will be a little flexibiltiy on powerplants, drivetrains and suspension etc. With the engineering capabilities of today and the relative ease to extract reliable and astronomical horsepower out of any of the aforementioned potential engines (yes, that includes Holden inline sixes)..... who knows? But it would be a nightmare for scrutineers. Only feasible options in my eyes would be to stick to what these listed cars were optioned with, perhaps excluding VL turbos... ie. 304/308 V8 categories and a normally aspirated inline six category eg. single carb/injected black/injected (not forced) RB30....

Would love to see the categories play on an open field, can easily imagine wild sixes on song giving a toweling to overpowered couterparts. If they stick to normally-aspirated lineups, and ban turboed Nissan plants (we don't need any upsets like the Godzilla fiasco), should be a lotta fun from both the competitive side and also spectators.

greenfoam · 30-05-2009, 01:36 AM

Well say goodbye to the VB-VL's then. HQ were a plentyfull and lovely thing until HQ racing was invented and killed them all. The early Commodores are on the verge of a rapid price rise, this will make it happen right now. How about they race a Holden no one wants like VT-VX's. I do like the option of having lots of diferent engine, one engine gets boring pretty fast

Scott · 30-05-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Well say goodbye to the VB-VL's then. HQ were a plentyfull and lovely thing until HQ racing was invented and killed them all. The early Commodores are on the verge of a rapid price rise, this will make it happen right now. How about they race a Holden no one wants like VT-VX's. I do like the option of having lots of diferent engine, one engine gets boring pretty fast

Nup, don't agree at all. There were 485,000 HQ's built and HQ "Specific" Racing has been in existence in some form for +30 years. I can still buy a reasonable HQ Kingo for $1k-$2k, let alone a matching numbers HQ GTS in need of resto for sub $10k.

There were more than 620,000 of those VB-VL Commodores built and unless they are a HDT based car, they are worthless. The other thing to consider is that they are just an import and there is millions of them overseas too. They will not suffer the panel shortages that "some" HQ Racers experience these days.

There is no "verge of a rapid price rise" coming for old Commodores, it has already come and softened - it was only the HDT cars and they have crashed in spectacular fashion over the course of the last 6 months. Mid last year you would expect to buy a Bluey for $125k, now they are struggling to move at $60k. Maybe a Tuxedo Black, Manual VC Brock will be the one to buck the trend but that is a very rare car indeed.

VL Group A's were looking at close to $100k, now $50k. A VH SS will struggle to pull $10k unless it's a Group 3.

Walt Kowalski · 30-05-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Well say goodbye to the VB-VL's then. HQ were a plentyfull and lovely thing until HQ racing was invented and killed them all. The early Commodores are on the verge of a rapid price rise, this will make it happen right now. How about they race a Holden no one wants like VT-VX's. I do like the option of having lots of diferent engine, one engine gets boring pretty fast

The series will have HDT "factory" support so only for relevant models

pauljh74 · 30-05-2009, 08:33 PM

There used to be a ROH Commodore cup - I think it is now no longer, so this new series is probably the replacement. They raced VB-VK Commodores, running the 253 motor tuned to about 250HP I think. It was a good mix of performance and lower cost racing.

Scott · 30-05-2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauljh74

There used to be a ROH Commodore cup - I think it is now no longer, so this new series is probably the replacement. They raced VB-VK Commodores, running the 253 motor tuned to about 250HP I think. It was a good mix of performance and lower cost racing.

Good point, lots of them gathering dust in sheds right now :(

dom_105 · 30-05-2009, 11:05 PM

I thought Commodore Cup was still getting around.

Walt Kowalski · 31-05-2009, 12:10 AM

Commodore Cup definitely still active & racing regularly. 253

blackwood · 31-05-2009, 01:21 AM

Yeah but don't they run VR-S in CC nowdays?

I'd like to see a racing series for XD-E Falcons and VC-H-K Commodores.
302Cs & 308s, 4spd 'boxes, no aero kits and big side pipes.

bnbmotorsport · 03-09-2009, 06:10 PM

Hi guys, I just noticed that you ford freaks have been talking about some real cars..(lol)

I race in the HDT cup (the first round anyway), and for those that are interested I'll give you the run down on how it works. Most of what has already been said is somewhat true,but with just a couple of small thins left out....

Ok Firstly it is open to all Commodores, respective of model and age. Originally it was just going to be for VB to VL's. But but due to the amount of interest in the catagory from people with later model cars the organizers have now included a "Modern" category for VN to VE. So now there is "Classic" which is VB to VL and "Modern" which is VN to VE.

These categories are then divided into three more sub categories:
Class A, 5ltr to 6ltr (including Chevs)
Class B, 4.2ltr (253ci)
Class C, 6cyl (both straight and Vee)

Only rules are:
Must be a commodore (although there is talk of including Torana's in the future)
Must be a Holden engine (ie202,253,308,304,355 and Chev is ok because they came out in holdens, and the RB30 is ok because it came out in the VL)
Must run R spec tyres, NO SLICKS.
MAXIMUM engine size is 6lt
No turbos or superchargers (So no VL turbos)

The idea behind the concept is simple...
Keep it cheap, keep it simple and make it fun! The less rules you have the more people will want to come and play.

The the equalizer comes in the form of handicapping. Theoretically you could turn up in a stock standard car ( with safety gear, roll cage extinguisher etc) and have as much chance of winning as the guy with a top shelf best of everything race car.

Handicapping works like this:
The first two races are scratch start (normal), and you start the following race where you finished the previous one.
Third race is reverse grid (Slowest car in pole, and fastest at the back of the grid)

Last two races are Handicapped.... this is where it gets interesting.
Your average lap time is worked out from all the previous races.
Lets say the slowest car, Car #1 has an average lap time of 1min 30 sec and the fastest car, Car#2 has an average lap time of 1 min flat.
Normally this would mean that in a normal race car #2 would be lapping car #1 every third lap.So in a 12 lap race car #1 would be down 3-4 laps by the time car #2 crossed the line in first place.
So to even things up in the handicap races, car #1 has to do the full 12 laps, where as car#2 will have to do an extra 3-4 laps to claim the win.
This method has a couple of benefits... it allows the guys on a limited budget to remain competitive and also for very close racing as every one theoretically should be finishing together..

This handicapping system is not exclusive to HDT Cup, it is the way iRace run their events... keeps it real for every one.

I think it would be fantastic if the Ford guys could organize a similar thing.... but at the moment the "muscle division" would be the go.

Cheers

ehast13 · 03-09-2009, 09:00 PM

Wow. Sounds great. I wonder what chance there would be of getting old ford Auscars, saloon cars, future tourer and group e and even the occasional group N, or group C falcons out of sheds and onto the track?

We need someone Like Phil Willmington to organize it. Would Ford dealers get behind it? Would a ford clubs offer anything?

A commodore versus Falcon series would be kinda cool. REAL commies and falcons unlike the V8superclones.

I'd love to see a hot xf efi 4.1 up against a 253 Commodore....

bnbmotorsport · 03-09-2009, 10:17 PM

Best bloke to speak to is Rod Dale from iRace or Garry Willmington.
You can contact Rod through the irace web site

http://www.irace.net.au/

Airmon · 04-09-2009, 01:02 AM

Thanks for the great info mate, sounds like they've definitely got a good setup for some cheap entry level racing.
Whats the setup for entering though? Do you have to enter every single round or is it a show up on the day and race sort of deal?
What tracks do they race on?
Sounds like a hell of alot of fun for a small outlay. And the handicapping system sounds like a great idea to keep it interesting. While I'm sure the big-spenders will find it a hassle, its great for getting budget builders into the mix and will make for some great innovation.

Just nit-picking :P but would a 4.2lt Stroked 6 run in the 6cyl or the 4.2class?

bnbmotorsport · 04-09-2009, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airmon

Thanks for the great info mate, sounds like they've definitely got a good setup for some cheap entry level racing.
Whats the setup for entering though? Do you have to enter every single round or is it a show up on the day and race sort of deal?
What tracks do they race on?
Sounds like a hell of alot of fun for a small outlay. And the handicapping system sounds like a great idea to keep it interesting. While I'm sure the big-spenders will find it a hassle, its great for getting budget builders into the mix and will make for some great innovation.

Just nit-picking :P but would a 4.2lt Stroked 6 run in the 6cyl or the 4.2class?

You need to enter each event, prior to the day... this can be done via the iRace web site or by fax or by post.... Web site is the easiest.

On race day you take you car up to the scrutineering bay and join the que, while you are waiting you go and get your Documentation sorted ( show them your lic, and they give you a Srutineering form).
you go back to your car and wait for your turn, and in the mean time you talk trash with all the other guys.
After that go back to your garage and wait for your race to be called up .... then drive it like you stole it..

A stroked 6 cly is still 6 cyl so you'd be in the 6 cyl class.......
What do you have??? or is it just a hypothetical question?

Race tracks: This year they have used Morgan Park, Oran pk South and Oran Pk GP.
Not sure about next year as OP is closing in December. Prob Wakefield

NudgE^SIKBRO · 04-09-2009, 10:48 AM

That sounds like a whole lot of fun, it sounds very fair to all and i personally like that idea

sly_ba · 04-09-2009, 12:27 PM

I take it this is NSW based being Oran park etc...

Walkinshaw · 04-09-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnbmotorsport

Must be a Holden engine (ie202,253,308,304,355 and Chev is ok because they came out in holdens, and the RB30 is ok because it came out in the VL)

Chevs? In commodores.......okay

Sounds like supersedan under a diffrent name

bnbmotorsport · 04-09-2009, 01:11 PM

they are a commodore engine....
Cheap and reliable HP
The idea is keep it simple as few rules as possible and give every one a fighting chance, no matter what your budget is.
unlike other categories, where you have to run a certain tyre, you have to run a set suspension package etc etc...

bnbmotorsport · 04-09-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sly_ba

I take it this is NSW based being Oran park etc...

Morgan park is QLD, there was even talk of Winton.
but at the moment, yes it is predominantly NSW. But they would like to take it Nation wide. But you have to be able to walk before you can run.

From the first meeting of people interested in doing the HDT cup, to the first race meeting was about 8 weeks. And we had 18 entrants for the first round, that is an out standing turn out for such a short lead time. In that 8 weeks I would say that 3/4 of the cars on the grid were bought and built in that time. There are quite a few guys that ran out of time to get ready, but will be there for the next round.

burnz · 04-09-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

Chevs? In commodores.......okay

Sounds like supersedan under a diffrent name

yep chevs VT-VE, as posted erlier.