AU2 futura vs XR6 trailing arm differences

blueoval · 18-08-2011, 12:01 PM

Hey fellas,

Thought I'd post here as I think most of you will know the answer or at least have some idea.

I was wondering if anyone would know if there is a difference to the upper and lower trailing arms between a Forte/Futura live axle and a XR6 live axle rear?

As is, are there significant length differences, structural differences that were considerably different between the 2 models or were they just the same all the way through?

I thought there might have been length differences between the 2 models due to the ride heights. Forte being higher and XR6 being lower stance therefore changing the length of the trailing arms to suit. But not sure.

When I put my XR6 diff in my Futura a few years back with lowered springs, I reused my lower trailing arms but bolted them to the secondary point in the diff to get the yoke angle right otherwise I would get a shudder through the car. Since doing that, its been fine unless I fit people in the back of the car which drops the back down even further and I still occasionally get a bit of a shudder, but no where near as much as before. I was wondering if the change in trailing arms to proper XR6 ones will help alleviate this and set the angle of the diff up better again?

Does anyone know for sure or can point me in the right direction showing specific information to confirm?

Cam · 18-08-2011, 05:15 PM

Quoted post from one of my threads on the issue..

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...0&postcount=35

Cam · 18-08-2011, 05:19 PM

BTW - I just bought some... Ignore the title, confirmed with nolathane the models are correct..
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....84.m1439.l2649

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....m=140589794849

blueoval · 18-08-2011, 05:31 PM

Thanks Cam. Does that mob do the other sides as well or is that just a generic price for either side?

Which one should I get?

Cam · 18-08-2011, 06:05 PM

Thats for both sides mate.. My car was in an accident so wanted the bushes replaced in the upper and lower arms.. and as I wanted to go to the XR arms as well this was a pretty cheap way to go..

Just unpacked them, just for a teaser pic for ya

blueoval · 19-08-2011, 10:03 AM

That's brilliant if its for both sides Cam. I got quoted more than that from Pedders just to replace the bushes on the ones already on there.

As for the length of them, what your opinion on which length I should go for based on that post from MAD? Seeing as I have the XR6 diff and lowered my suspension, should I go for the tickford length and position the diff to the rear most hole? Or should I stick with standard length and position the diff to the front? Bear in mind I already am using the front hole at the moment and am finding under load there is still some very slight shudder.

MAD · 19-08-2011, 12:37 PM

Wow, getting quoted.. I must be famous now.. haha.

If you have the std upper arm in the front hole, as you lower the car, the nose of the diff points more to the ground giving an increased angle between the pinion and tailshaft. This gives the vibrations you were talking about.
When you fit the Tickford arms to the rear hole, it points the nose of the diff back up to correct that angle. As a result of this it is possible for the tailshaft to hit the trans tunnel under hard acceleration. That's why part of the Tickford suspension upgrade was a bump stop above the nose of the diff to stop that from happening.

The way I look at it, if the arms were changed for the Tickford suspension (roughly 30mm lower) then anything near, or over, that should have the Tickford arms fitted.

blueoval · 19-08-2011, 02:39 PM

Thanks MAD. If my memory serves me, the Eibach's are 35mm lower from stock. So it looks like I may need to get the Tickford replacement arms to help compensate when I fit extra people in the back of my car.

Again, the vibration I get is ONLY when I have people in the back, never while Im on my own.

MAD · 19-08-2011, 03:23 PM

35mm sounds right from memory. I got those springs too. But I think they're a little lower in the back to make the car level.

It sounds like a pinion angle thing.
Mine used to do it with only me in the car but only at about 90-100km/h
With people in the back, or a load in the boot, it was very noticable at 50km/h.

blueoval · 19-08-2011, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAD

35mm sounds right from memory. I got those springs too. But I think they're a little lower in the back to make the car level.

It sounds like a pinion angle thing.
Mine used to do it with only me in the car but only at about 90-100km/h
With people in the back, or a load in the boot, it was very noticable at 50km/h.

That's basically what I am experiencing. Sounds like you know what Im on about. So with that in mind, should I get the tickford arms and reposition the them to suit the rear bolt hole?

MAD · 19-08-2011, 03:31 PM

Yep, Tickford arms in the rear, lower hole.

blueoval · 19-08-2011, 03:33 PM

Thanks bloke. Tickford upper ones too I assume? Might as well get them both done and be done with it.

With that in mind, and I dont want to sound like a dumbass but would I notice a difference in handling with the new bushes in the trailing arms at all? What do they actually do to be exact?

MAD · 19-08-2011, 03:37 PM

It's only the upper arms that are different. The lower ones are the same between all models (XE-AU)
It does change the handling a little. I dont know all the ins and outs of it, but I think it alters the roll axis of the car.

blueoval · 19-08-2011, 03:47 PM

Interesting. As I tend to get some oversteer when I punch out of the corners at the moment. I wouldnt have thought I would considering I have an upgraded Whiteline rear sway. I might get the upper and lowers replaced and be done with it. At least I know I have new urethane bushes in and its sorted.

Thanks for you help MAD and Cam.

MAD · 19-08-2011, 03:51 PM

I would expect a bit more over-steer if you only upgraded the rear sway bar.

A general rule is if you stiffen the front sway bar you will get under-steer, if you stiffen the rear you get over-steer.

blueoval · 19-08-2011, 04:03 PM

I have done both front and rear with Whiteline bars. 27 front and I think 22 rear?

Also with the links Cam has posted from Ebay, are they the tickford ones, as I cannot tell?

Cam · 19-08-2011, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

Also with the links Cam has posted from Ebay, are they the tickford ones, as I cannot tell?

Yeah they are, i specified the part numbers with the seller, he found a supplier and put the auctions up for me..

blueoval · 19-08-2011, 04:22 PM

Thanks Cam.

Cam · 20-08-2011, 06:15 PM

Installed the arms in my car today, along with some new sway bar bushes..

Installation was as expected, although I was surprised at how much "persuasion" was required to get them in, especially the front mount for the lower arm.. To be honest I had more issues getting the sway bar pin bushes to fit with my aftermarket sway bar then anything else! I did have some issues with the location of the holes for the ABS lines on the lower arm, but some cable ties will fix that..

Would take it for a spin and post results, but I had a couple of cleansing ale's to assist in motivation, so can't take her for a spin right now.. Might start a build thread at some stage this weekend and post up some piccies for those interested..

blueoval · 20-08-2011, 06:32 PM

Will be interested in hearing how the car handles cam. Thanks for the tips though.

Cam · 22-08-2011, 08:16 PM

Well I wish I had good news to report.. but..

I had the car still up on stands awaiting me to zippy tie the ABS line, I got slack yesterday and waited till this morning to drop the car back on the ground..biiiiiig mistake..

So 5am this morning I dropped the car on the ground only to realise I have had what seemed to be a ride height increase of a couple of inches on one side... I had a look under the car and could see that the drivers side arm was fowling the top of the diff.. Had a look at the other side and could see that the other side had an "indent" that gave it clearance from the diff, looked at the otherside and the indent was on the top, not on the bottom.. DAMNIT!

Being 5am and needing to get my boy to kindy by 6:30 to make it to work on time I left it till tonight to look at.. I looked at the arm and could see that if the "indent" was over the diff as it should be the bend in the arm was the wrong way.. Puzzled put the indent end towards the front of the car in the hope that maybe the angle would allow it to clear the diff and perhaps I was just a moron.. no dice.. The trailing arm fowled the rear spring fairly heavily, clearly that wasn't right...

So being a single dad, and having one car that I rely upon heavily I put the standard ones back in earlier tonight and will contact the seller tomorrow..

Can anyone confirm if they are specific to one side (specifically the XR Arms?), as there is no way that arm will work out in the lower rear hole..

Gutted..
Cam

FGII-XR6 · 22-08-2011, 09:08 PM

this is from the parts database
ELTVE 5501 A ARM ASSY - REAR SUSPENSION, 4 DR SED, FORTE/FUTURA/"S"/XR6/FAIRMONT, WITH SPORTS TUNED SUSPENSION$87.88
ELTVE 5A803 A ARM ASSY REAR SUSPENSION LH, 4 DR SED, FORTE/FUTURA/"S"/XR6/FAIRMONT, WITH SPORTS TUNED SUSPENSION$87.88

as you can see there is a different one for the LHS

Cam · 22-08-2011, 09:26 PM

That fills me with some hope... Same part as the EF+ Tickford arms I wonder?

FGII-XR6 · 22-08-2011, 10:04 PM

part number starts with EL so it would be EL onwards

POELWYK · 22-08-2011, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cam

Thats for both sides mate.. My car was in an accident so wanted the bushes replaced in the upper and lower arms.. and as I wanted to go to the XR arms as well this was a pretty cheap way to go..

Just unpacked them, just for a teaser pic for ya

i got a set of them in my au there Tops

MAD · 22-08-2011, 10:19 PM

EF upper arms are different to EL arms. EF had a different mounting point and the arms were very different.
You've definitely been given two left arms.

Cam · 23-08-2011, 07:06 AM

Hrmm.. Very strange... The arms are the same model number from EF+ (being 46900AHD), I will call the seller today and see how I get on, they certainly do appear to the the correct ones, but definitely appear to be the wrong sides as MAD says..

Will let ya'll know how I get on..

FGII-XR6 · 23-08-2011, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cam

Hrmm.. Very strange... The arms are the same model number from EF+ (being 46900AHD), I will call the seller today and see how I get on, they certainly do appear to the the correct ones, but definitely appear to be the wrong sides as MAD says..

Will let ya'll know how I get on..

some late EFs might be hybrids ford tend to do that at the end of a model run. they incororate some changes ( mostly suspension / brakes) for the upcoming model in the run out cars. the late ELs got the engine with the AU head on it the AU1 got smartshield towards the end of it's run

blueoval · 23-08-2011, 10:31 AM

wow. Sorry to hear Cam. That sucks, I am very grateful though that I waited to see how you went before ordering mine though. haha. Although no consolation on your situation. I hope the seller realizes the issue and is able to rectify the problem for you promptly.

Cam · 23-08-2011, 10:52 AM

Spoke to the seller, he was really good about it, although he was not overly familiar with the arms and the setup..

He called Nolathane who confirmed the arms should be different and that it was a packing issue on Nolathanes behalf.

Asked for pics of said arms and will organise to have one of them replaced with the correct arm.

Slightly less Gutted..
Cam