Is this Legal?

[Iggypoppin']

I'm going to pose this Hypothetically, so as not to get anyone in trouble.

Suppose, Hypothetically, there is a large group of mates. all range from around 16-27 and love cars. They have, slowly and without really noticing, come to hang out at the eldest car enthusiests home, who has no objection, and who's wife and kids love it too. there is about 10-20 of them, not all there at the same time, about 7 or 8 are always there after 5. they repair each others cars, project cars and focus a lot on the eldest guys project, which, for this argument, is say, a KE70 corolla fitted with an RB26 and is a proper ground up rebuild not a junk pile ie: 10's of thousands gone in. the boys all meet up after work, do some work maybe a little swearing, plenty of cars, sometimes as many as 20. they keep as quiet as a mob of guys can. when they leave/arrive they are civil and dont hoon off and leave skid marks everywhere. one day the police arrive at the door and warn the renter of the household (our eldest@ 27 yrs) that he is to cease all power tools noise, no cars, no working on them, after 5pm as he is suspected of running an illegal chop shop(note: other boys cars coming and going etc. NO MONEY CHANGES HANDS) fair enough power tools at 9.30 at night is excessive but that is a rarity and its all pretty much over by around 10 anyway. My question is, can the police actually enforce this kind of order? nothing in paper but apparently they have "evidence" to suggest otherwise and when they are asked this, they say, "most backyard mechanics only have socket sets and maybe a grinder no welders and pipe benders". It is confusing that they know whats in a locked and unwindowed shed....isnt it?

[Auslandau]

Must be the week for Hypothetically speaking!

All I can say is if these hypothetical people lived next to me I would be Peed off something cronic! 20 cars on one night coming and gooing? Tools going till 10 some times??? Yes the police can do something about it in a residential area.
THank god its in hypothetical Adelaide and I am hypothetically in Melbounre



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[Iggypoppin']

haha ok fair enough. however, shouldn't a complaint be made first(to the home-renter)? also, is it unfair to effectivly ban him from using any tool AT ALL at ANY HOUR of the day? hypothetically speaking!

[MrEL]

Geez Id better get rid of my welders , air compressors etc before Im charged with an act of terrorism......................................... ...............

[snappy]

Sounds like fun , No wonder they have banned it .

[Iggypoppin']

Originally Posted by snappy84

Sounds like fun , No wonder they have banned it .

thats what the hypothetical house renter said. anything fun is canned by the gov.

Also, a very hypothetical HQ is now up for sale because of this particular...hypothesis. This has made me incredibly angry. Hypothetically.

[vanman_75]

laws on this 7 till seven in queensland i believe ,was a chippy in past life and had to tip toe around if we started early ,but in between nothing they can do grind away .

[XR6_190]

HYPOTHETICALLY:
If I had neighbours that were causing substantial noise, and (again hypothetically) close to blocking the street with all of their cars, and I didn't know them too well (considering they are hypothetically renting, it's fair to say, hypothetically that is, that they haven't lived there for too long, so they don't know the hypothetical neighbours too well.) I wouldn't be going over and asking (even hypothetically) them to quieten up, not when there are up to 20 of them, and only me and my family, I too would be ringing the police, and letting them deal with it.

That said, on the other side of it, hypothetically if it was me that had been given this order by the police, I would be hypothetically talking to a solicitor to see exactley what the police are legally aloud to do.

Again, that is all hypothetical.

Originally Posted by auslandau

Must be the week for Hypothetically speaking!

All I can say is if these hypothetical people lived next to me I would be Peed off something cronic! 20 cars on one night coming and gooing? Tools going till 10 some times??? Yes the police can do something about it in a residential area.
THank god its in hypothetical Adelaide and I am hypothetically in Melbounre

Spot on, well hypothetically anyway.

[Iggypoppin']

hmm...a solicitor is a bit steep in the economic times...hypothetical home renter has basically done something he didnt want to do, and thats remove all his mates from doing this stuff. now they're hunting for a hypothetical workshop to joint rent!

[Captain Stubing]

You'd have to look up your local "Noise Abatement Act' (or similar) for your state, to see how your hypothetical situation fits in. That should give you any times you couldn't make hypothetic noise, and the type of hypothetic noise you could make i.e. natural noise vs electrically powered noise. (Talking loudly may be okay, but a quieter Triple J may be illegal!)

[Iggypoppin']

ok Im going to just make sure the actual reason for a "verbal ban" is made clear..apparent suspicion of an Illegal mechanics workshop! the belief is they are making a solid enough income from out of hours work which doesnt actually happen. can they "ban" because of this.

[Stattic]

well they have no proof...

[snappy]

The would need proof to stop anything i would have thought . Just buy your neighbours a slab tell them you not dealing drugs just fixing a car and invite him around he is probly jelous.
Or go to you closest centrelink and find out about legal aid . I used it before in simple cases . Cost me nothing and got the job done .

sorry i forgot hypothetically

[Iggypoppin']

they believe that the numerous complaints of cars coming and going(we attribute this to the project cars, also some of the guys have a habit of buying and selling a lot) coupled with the pretty shmick dailys we all have, is just about enough. proof of money(of which there is none) is what they want. but for now it is effectively illegal to work on a car there.
hypo.

[snappy]

Since when is numourous cars coming and going illegal . Better make a complaint about that taxi rank in town .

Bugger them what can they do . Fine you for having to many friends. (hypothetically)

[Iggypoppin']

hmmm. its obvious this is someone i am pretty good mates with. its very very hard to deal with, everything was routine and now police are there twice so far this week, they arent being easy to deal with and we have been politely asked to leave....but why?? we have TECHNICALLY done nothing illegal, and the noise? more than happy to be quieter..but this is stupid.

[snappy]

Its is stupid maybe get your mates to carpool or somthing.
Get a decibel reader see what you get it to .
Sound proof the shed wall , amazing what some rock wool insulation a sheet of plaster will do.
I can't think of any laws you are braking unless your very loud in late hours . But you probly could get evicted by your landlord well ask to leave.

[snappy]

Get all your mates to chuck in some cash ($20 a week) rent a small shed in a industrial area . That is what the bikie clubs do

[Iggypoppin']

Carpooling is out because of erratic work finish times as well as other things. I just think this is ridiculous. a simple "not so much noise boys" and maybe "few too many cars, tone it down" would have been plenty. But they accuse us of running a workshop etc and that really was uncalled for.

[snappy]

innocent till proven guilty

[Iggypoppin']

I like you snappy. Best ideas I've heard in ages.

[JC]

Originally Posted by SLWXR6

ok Im going to just make sure the actual reason for a "verbal ban" is made clear..apparent suspicion of an Illegal mechanics workshop! the belief is they are making a solid enough income from out of hours work which doesnt actually happen. can they "ban" because of this.

Yes they can - it's a residential zone, not an industrial zone, so you actually need a permit to carry on a business at home. Now, you may think that just because money is not changing hands, that no business is being done - but you are exchanging labour, and with 20 cars there every night, I'd classify it as a business (certainly, it's not residential).

And you can stuff your hypothetical where the sun don't shine. Grow up and have some understanding for what it means to be a member of a neighbourhood - and working every night among 8 to 20 "guys" is not what normal neighbours do; the noise would annoy most, and the number of you there would also intimidate most. But of course, you are only thinking of yourselves - how Gen Y of you; it must be someone else's problem.

[snappy]

Awesome i have it writting that somone likes me cant wait to show the missus :

I just like the idea on somone sticking it to the man!

[snappy]

Now, you may think that just because money is not changing hands, that no business is being done - but you are exchanging labour, and with 20 cars there every night, I'd classify it as a business (certainly, it's not residential).

And you can stuff your hypothetical where the sun don't shine. Grow up and have some understanding for what it means to be a member of a neighbourhood - and working every night among 8 to 20 "guys" is not what normal neighbours

So next time i get a mate around to help mend the fence or put up a shed i should get a permit .
Imo you could not get a stronger sense of community . A bunch of bloke helping each other out . If there is no thumpin music and power tools stop but the time the kiddies got to bed i cant see what the problem is.
Get the shed mate . or just wait for the rest of australia to harden the ..... up

[DJL351]

The real question would have to be.....

Would this "Hypothetical" situtation require another poll to be created by Flappist?


But, I would have to side with the bloke next door.... it would seem very suspect from outside.
Having said that, if an approach was made and an agreement reached between them (say only X, Y and Z nights until 'said' time etc) Then I'd see no reason for any other 'action' to be required on behalf of the law.

[JC]

Originally Posted by snappy84

So next time i get a mate around to help mend the fence or put up a shed i should get a permit .
Imo you could not get a stronger sense of community . A bunch of bloke helping each other out . If there is no thumpin music and power tools stop but the time the kiddies got to bed i cant see what the problem is.
Get the shed mate . or just wait for the rest of australia to harden the ..... up

No - but if you were pre-fabbing sheds every night with 8 to 20 other blokes, and often working until 10pm, then Yes. Think about what you type before you type it, and if it sounds stupid to you, it probably is.

[MaTTe]

Mate no offence, but i think it is common sense to cut off usage of power tools at a reasonable hour.
I do pretty much all the work you have listed and probably alot more at my grandad's house every day, but we atleast have some respect for the people surrounding.
We don't start brutaly early with power tools, we wait until 9-10am at the earliest (unless it's VERY close to race day)
and we almost always have packed up by 6pm. if we work any later than that we avoid using power tools as much as possible.

If you had just finished a hard day, come home sat down to relax - and all you could hear was power tools next door, you'd be ****ed too.
I know i would.

With a collection of cars - sometimes changing, many different faces, and alot of noise, I can understand why the neighbours think you're running a business. Either that, or they got smart and figured out a way to stop you in your tracks.

If you have to work late, and power tools are necessary. Get a workshop. Find one with a decent security system so your tools and rides are safe, and you can work all night then go to work again in the morning.

Hopefully next time no 'hy-pothetic-als' are needed.. explaning the point the first time would have been much easier.

i hope this helps

[snappy]

A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood or profit - that is the definition of a business.

I not suggesting that making a heap of noise at 10pm is okay .
But a bunch of blokes working on cars at someones house is fine .
But my understanding of the law would suggest the police's only power is to tell you to keep the noise down . If you obey that law whats the issue .
Yes it probly would be annoying but no more annoying then your next door neighbour having a couple of kids they cant control.

[68XTFairmont]

I think hypothetically that your friend must live in Golden Grove or another one of them areas where neighbours say hello to each other through their bathroom windows whilst brushing their teeth in the morning.

Either I have really understang neighbours or I intimidate them too much for them to complain about my 13 bikes and 6 cars that I am forever working on at all times of day and night.

As far as noise levels go in Adelaide it doesn't matter what time of day it is, If somebody makes a complaint the police must attend and ask that noise levels be kept down. As far as running a business in a residential area that is a local council by-law which these days is pretty much illegal in all areas, If I were you and your hypothetical friends I would look for a cheap workshop and all chip in.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by JC

Yes they can - it's a residential zone, not an industrial zone, so you actually need a permit to carry on a business at home. Now, you may think that just because money is not changing hands, that no business is being done - but you are exchanging labour, and with 20 cars there every night, I'd classify it as a business (certainly, it's not residential).

And you can stuff your hypothetical where the sun don't shine. Grow up and have some understanding for what it means to be a member of a neighbourhood - and working every night among 8 to 20 "guys" is not what normal neighbours do; the noise would annoy most, and the number of you there would also intimidate most. But of course, you are only thinking of yourselves - how Gen Y of you; it must be someone else's problem.

carrying on a business without money hey? some business that'd be!
let me know how that works out for you!
and stop whinging about young blokes would you? member of a neighbourhood? a neighbourhood is made up of people who should be able to do damn well what they want to provided it doesn't affect the others detrimentally. I don't think your jealousy counts as a detrimental effect! :
Since when was Australia all about rules and not about people?!