Manufacturers that can't adapt ...... are doomed

[johnydep]

This article is so true about our local vehicle manufacturers. The public is worried about fuel costs, yet the manufacturers are draging their feet to alleviate the concern.

http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/bulle...25703F001C6707

Wealth is wisdom in the car industry, which is why Toyota is the best prepared of Australia’s four manufacturers to cope with rising oil prices..........
Back in October 2004, local executive chairman John Conomos said Australians’ buying patterns would begin to change with a sustained period of high fuel prices. With small cars outselling large ones in Australia through the first half of 2005 for the first time ever, his prediction has quickly come true.
........
Holden appears to be the next best dressed. The Australian outpost of GM is preparing an all-new model for production in mid-2006.........
Ford is in a similar position to Holden. The big difference is that Ford is lumbered with an Australia-only six-cylinder engine for its Falcon and Territory families. That means Ford Australia would have to fund the development of fuel efficiency improvements itself, or turn to Ford’s global engine catalogue for something to suit. Either way would be costly.
.......
Mitsubishi will begin manufacturing a new V6-engined sedan this year in its Adelaide factory. It’s certain to be a decent car, but its Japanese parent has suffered from a long period of poor management and restricted R&D spending. When wealth is wisdom, this could really hurt.

[Falcon Coupe]

I say the Government is dragging their feet even further, it's about time they capped the excise at a reasonable rate and gave us some relief, today's paper says fuel could hit $1.50 by the end of the year.

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by johnydep

This article is so true about our local vehicle manufacturers. The public is worried about fuel costs, yet the manufacturers are draging their feet to alleviate the concern.

Some points of truth... some not so. Gee how about Ford Australia just lift up any of the already Euro compliant diesel engines out of Europe? Engineering to fit and get the 'tune' right for Australian conditions wouldn't take too long nor take nearly as much money as they might think. Sure the 'parts' might be expensive, however once you have them, you don't do any local re-engineering of them which saves money, unlike the BA220/230 Boss 260/290 or I6.

Ford probably has under its umbrella the largest selection of consumer engines in the world. Rationalise those, and pick ready built products - and get Ford Australia to campaign to lower tariffs/taxes on such imports or we pack up shop.

[XplosiveR6]

it looks like diesel engines are going to be the best idea for the rising fuel prices.

the whole thing about everyone going to now buy small cars is crap. familys still need large family cars, you simply cannot expect a whole family to cram into a little toyota echo, therefore company cars, and family owners will still stick to large cars which are the biggest seller for fords and holdens anyway. so imanufacturers, either do something about the fuel costs (im sure they could do something if they all worked together) or build fuel economic suitable cars.

[Tote]

Hmmm anyone remember that high point of design last fuel crisis, the four cylinder commodore, or the mistake that Holden made by downsizing from the Kingswood to the small VB commodore.
There are some points there but it is easy for the press to make a fuss about small car sales increasing when the bread and butter fleet sales continue at the same rate.
How much cheaper are these "small" cars to run anyway? I wouldnt think that there would be substantial savings to be had by purchasing a larger four cylinder car such as the new offering by mitsubishi touted in the quote above over a BA which gets 11 -12 Lt /100Km
Regards,
Tote

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by Tote

How much cheaper are these "small" cars to run anyway? I wouldnt think that there would be substantial savings to be had by purchasing a larger four cylinder car such as the new offering by mitsubishi touted in the quote above over a BA which gets 11 -12 Lt /100Km

My BA I6 has NEVER gotten 11 - 12L/100km apart from when i've done extensive country driving. In the city - expect a BA I6 to get closer to 15 - 19L/100km depending on traffic and the driver.

My partner's first car was a Mitsubishi Wagon 4 cylinder auto. It easily got 11-12L/100km on city driving. I'd expect the current 4 cylinder Camry's to get about 13L/100km in the city.

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by parawolf

My BA I6 has NEVER gotten 11 - 12L/100km apart from when i've done extensive country driving. In the city - expect a BA I6 to get closer to 15 - 19L/100km depending on traffic and the driver..

that is just a stupid remark, BA's can get very good economy. do you drive with ur foot to the floor 100% of the time, you must. and the BF is expected to get 10.7l/100kms

[Franky]

Small cars are bigger than you think, with most families now being 'smaller' than they used to it's not hard to see why they are selling so well.

I would love ford to do a diesel focus much like the golf but cost will be an issue no doubt

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by parawolf

My BA I6 has NEVER gotten 11 - 12L/100km apart from when i've done extensive country driving. In the city - expect a BA I6 to get closer to 15 - 19L/100km depending on traffic and the driver.

Man you must be a lead foot, my BAXR8 gets 13-15l/100km, my AUII XR8 gets 14-16L/100km, my AU1 I6 wagon got 12-14l/100km, all city driving.

[Bluehoon]

Originally Posted by Devil Racer

Small cars are bigger than you think, with most families now being 'smaller' than they used to it's not hard to see why they are selling so well.

I would love ford to do a diesel focus much like the golf but cost will be an issue no doubt

Ford are doing a diesel small car.

I believe there is a test muel in Vic somewhere.
Someone should be able to shed further light.
But i know it exists...

[TZENU]

D BA gets about 14-16L/100km which suits me down to the ground.....

and the Y gets like 40L/100km :newangel:

[4Vman]

Well at least Ford got the jump and are in a position with a motor/vehicle that is compliant to the new laws and Ford are working to improve the economy.
Holden are faced with the dilema of finding a replacement 8 for the outgoing smoggy Gen3, and potentially feeling the backlash from consumers if they go the percieved gass guzzler "big capacity" route.

[flavze]

Diesel is currently around 10-15c a litre more than petrol most of the time i see it, they are gonna have to produce some decent fuel efficent deisel engines to have much off a benefit.
And correct me if i'm wrong but i always thought diesel is a by-product from the refining process of petrol, so if less petrol is consumed then less diesel is produced. This could lead to even higher prices for diesel.

But i'm probly wrong, my g/f's mum always tells me i am!

[t2te50]

It's a well known fact that FORDS especialy falcons are 'petrolscopic' or 'gas loving' barges that traverse between servos in the urban jungle. :
Unless we use some kind of cylinder retarding technology the TRUCK motor six and TANK sized V8 are history.
When a friend from poland heard of the capacity of the old mans car he remarked "what do you use it for, ploughing fields or something?"

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by t2te50

It's a well known fact that FORDS especialy falcons are 'petrolscopic' or 'gas loving' barges that traverse between servos in the urban jungle. :
Unless we use some kind of cylinder retarding technology the TRUCK motor six and TANK sized V8 are history.
When a friend from poland heard of the capacity of the old mans car he remarked "what do you use it for, ploughing fields or something?"

:
enjoy your Hyundai! :evil_laug

[Falcon Coupe]

Does Ford do a straight gas option on the 220 v8 ? i think that would make a good tow vehicle for people that need it.

[MrSparkle]

Originally Posted by t2te50

When a friend from poland heard of the capacity of the old mans car he remarked "what do you use it for, ploughing fields or something?"

"... she'll go 300 hectares on a single tank of kerosene!"





Yes yes, completely off topic, but an appropriate Simpsonism is always welcome. e

[CruizinEB]

i think if all govenment cars were on gas it would reduse demand on petrol hence lower prices at the pump

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by t2te50

TANK sized V8 are history.

Says the man driving a hot v8 barge....

Originally Posted by t2te50

When a friend from poland heard of the capacity of the old mans car he remarked "what do you use it for, ploughing fields or something?"

*** edited by xa coupe ***

[Polyal]

Anyway, ford have made improvements to the BF (6% with numbers easily showing 9%) from BA. Someone said 10.7, I think its 11.1. Either way its still lower than BA.

Small cars are killing the sales charts at the moment, and large cars are doing the opposite. I love my falcon but if prices keep going up its a midsizer or a hot hatch for me. Then save some cash and spend it on a weekend car. It that way it will be I think.

[XA-Coupe]

give it a rest everyone.

[Black XR6]

LPG seems to be one of the most sensible ways of dealing with the rising fuel costs.

Either that or have we seen the peak of this run of muscle cars.

[johnydep]

As Polyal mentioned, the updated BF engine with 6 gears is heading in the right direction.

But it'd be nice to see some other technology used, like cylinder de-activation, direct injection and lighter materials.

It's all possible, the question is when & who will be first.

[Tote]

Originally Posted by parawolf

My BA I6 has NEVER gotten 11 - 12L/100km apart from when i've done extensive country driving. In the city - expect a BA I6 to get closer to 15 - 19L/100km depending on traffic and the driver.

My partner's first car was a Mitsubishi Wagon 4 cylinder auto. It easily got 11-12L/100km on city driving. I'd expect the current 4 cylinder Camry's to get about 13L/100km in the city.

I drive about 110 Km of highway each day, and up to 100Km around Canberra. The onboard computer consistently says between 11 - 12 L/100K, Its an auto and I dont pay for the fuel, so I don't try and be particularly economical. I'm surprised that yours is that high.
Regards,
Tote

[Steffo]

I don't understand why people keep saying diesel is the way to go. It costs more then petrol, the cars are more expensive to buy etc etc. The savings in fuel economy do not overweigh the other costs involved.

IMHO.. before the major change to hydrogen cars or whatever they're thinking up, in Australia, LPG will become, like what diesel is in Europe - the big thing. LPG injection is arriving, more manufacturers are taking it up (Holden, Toyota and more will follow), and it will be far cheaper then petrol, even when the Govt starts to tax it. Seems like a win to me.

PS: Toyota has brought out an LPG/Electric hybrid Prius concept (North America).. which is supposed to be the cheapest car to fuel in the world...

[johnydep]

OK lets end the BA fuel thing now.

I hate to see things get nasty, lets be civil to each other & remember we all have different opinions & experiences.

Everyone will get a different L/100, because everyone drives differently & in different conditions.
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_1729/article.html

Stuck in thick traffic for much of our test, the XR6 slurped down over 15-litres per 100km, but - as a better guide - we'd expect 12s in typical urban driving. Ford themselves claim figures of 11.5 and 7.4-litres per 100km in city and highway conditions respectively

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I don't understand why people keep saying diesel is the way to go. It costs more then petrol, the cars are more expensive to buy etc etc. The savings in fuel economy do not overweigh the other costs involved.

IMHO.. before the major change to hydrogen cars or whatever they're thinking up, in Australia, LPG will become, like what diesel is in Europe - the big thing. LPG injection is arriving, more manufacturers are taking it up (Holden, Toyota and more will follow), and it will be far cheaper then petrol, even when the Govt starts to tax it. Seems like a win to me.

PS: Toyota has brought out an LPG/Electric hybrid Prius concept (North America).. which is supposed to be the cheapest car to fuel in the world...

I partially agree with you. Diesel is over rated.

Because Diesel has a good reputation in Europe, mainly because it can produce loads of torque & can use less L/100.
But they doo become noisy with age, smelly and expensive to maintain & repair.

I reckon a lot more can be done with petrol, there is still more potential to be had from it.
More R&D dollars is needed. What about lean burn technology.

[Falcon Coupe]

Steffo i have a 03 V6 rodeo, it cost 42k and gets 320klm out of a tank of petrol towing a 7"x5" box trailer, my mate has a 03 turbo diesel Navara it cost 38k and gets 600klm out of a tank towing a bigger and heavier tandam trailer, plus diesel is 6 cents a litre cheaper than petrol atm, simple economics.
Also a diesel lasts longer than a petrol engine.

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by Tote

I drive about 110 Km of highway each day, and up to 100Km around Canberra. The onboard computer consistently says between 11 - 12 L/100K, Its an auto and I dont pay for the fuel, so I don't try and be particularly economical. I'm surprised that yours is that high.

Mate, i've been to Canberra many times, the difference between your level of traffic or city driving is massively different to driving in Melbourne. That cannot even compare.

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Man you must be a lead foot, my BAXR8 gets 13-15l/100km, my AUII XR8 gets 14-16L/100km, my AU1 I6 wagon got 12-14l/100km, all city driving.

Nope - you never get the chance in what my previous job was. i'd drive from home, 4km out of the city, to my place of employment the other side of the CBD on St Kilda Road. From there I would get dispatched to various other CBD bound locations. So this was pure bumper to bumper driving, day in day out, rarely getting above 30km/h. My distance per tank was never much more than 340km, economy was 17-18L/100km and average speed was about 27km/h. :

Mate, i've been to Canberra many times, the difference between your level of traffic or city driving is massively different to driving in Melbourne. That cannot even compare.

However on the freeway - man between 7 and 9L/100km excellent economy.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by johnydep

I partially agree with you. Diesel is over rated.

Because Diesel has a good reputation in Europe, mainly because it can produce loads of torque & can use less L/100.
But they doo become noisy with age, smelly and expensive to maintain & repair.

The other issue is, in alot of countries in Europe, diesel is alot cheaper then petrol, which makes it an added bonus.

When I went to Sarajevo, in 2000, to visit family etc... the prices then were....

Petrol: KM 2.70 (A$2.50)
Diesel: KM 1.20 (A$1.00)

Huge difference.. and then there was this less refined type of diesel being sold at certain pumps for KM 0.80 (A$0.60). I'm not sure what its like there now, but that's a major difference in prices, makes diesel very much worth it.

(PS: KM = 'Konvertibilne Marke' or 'Convertible Marks' - the currency currently being used in Bosnia).