How "smart" do you have to be?

[Bushbasher]

I was just reading the thread about Ignoring the obvious, in the Pub, and it got me thinking about common sense and logic. Now, I test in various IQ tests at around the 125 mark but I don't consider myself particularly smart although I do like to think I have a bit of common sense and logical thinking on my side. So I have to wonder what is it that can make what is considered reasonably intelligent people, mostly the younger age demographic but older ones too, completely devoid of common sense or a level of logic that will allow them to think before they act.
Even in the middle of hormone fuelled puberty when we all make some stupid and ill considered decisions I was still able to know where and when to draw the line and say, 'yup, this is risky but the next step is just downright stupid and dangerous'. I came close to the edge a few times but when I did I recognised that the edge was there and knew not to go near that edge again, yet there is so many young and old that are oblivious to the dangerous situations and circumstances that they put themselves in so blithely bumble along at the edge of disaster till they either cause themselves and/or others grief or someone WITH common sense and judgement pulls them away from the edge and points out their predicament for them.
I find the older I get the less tolerant of stupidity I have become, yet at the same time the more stupid people there seems to be with no common sense, judgement or logic let alone courtesy and consideration, but that's a whole different issue.
Is it me or is the world breeding more stupid people now than it used to, or is it just that there are now more people to start with so the percentage of stupid people is unchanged and there's just proportionally more of them?.....or am I just a cynical old bastid becoming more anti social as I get older?

That's enough of my idle musing.....

[Nova 8]

Older generations always believe their generation is better than the current. Statistics I've read in the past prove otherwise with each generations picking up responsibles sooner both in the work force and family than the previous generation. Everyone has a camera nowadays whichs mean you see more then ever before. The stories I have heard from my father and grandfather are sometimes shocking...

[NAK302]

social media and exagerated journalism has a lot to answer for.
i guess dumb and dumber have been around for centuries, we just get to see them more nowadays.

[Ducati888]

Don't confuse being 'smart' with being 'intelligent'. They are quite different. A highly intelligent person can be very stupid, a person with average intelligence can be very smart.

Smart is how you use your intelligence, how you integrate it with experience, how you observe and learn from your environment, how you listen and apply knowledge.

Intelligence is what you are capable of, but it's rarely is used to capacity. Sort of like the raw material.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

Don't confuse being 'smart' with being 'intelligent'. They are quite different. A highly intelligent person can be very stupid, a person with average intelligence can be very smart.

Smart is how you use your intelligence, how you integrate it with experience, how you observe and learn from your environment, how you listen and apply knowledge.

Intelligence is what you are capable of, but it's rarely is used to capacity. Sort of like the raw material.

/thread.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

I was just reading the thread about Ignoring the obvious, in the Pub, and it got me thinking about common sense and logic. Now, I test in various IQ tests at around the 125 mark but I don't consider myself particularly smart although I do like to think I have a bit of common sense and logical thinking on my side. So I have to wonder what is it that can make what is considered reasonably intelligent people, mostly the younger age demographic but older ones too, completely devoid of common sense or a level of logic that will allow them to think before they act.
Even in the middle of hormone fuelled puberty when we all make some stupid and ill considered decisions I was still able to know where and when to draw the line and say, 'yup, this is risky but the next step is just downright stupid and dangerous'. I came close to the edge a few times but when I did I recognised that the edge was there and knew not to go near that edge again, yet there is so many young and old that are oblivious to the dangerous situations and circumstances that they put themselves in so blithely bumble along at the edge of disaster till they either cause themselves and/or others grief or someone WITH common sense and judgement pulls them away from the edge and points out their predicament for them.
I find the older I get the less tolerant of stupidity I have become, yet at the same time the more stupid people there seems to be with no common sense, judgement or logic let alone courtesy and consideration, but that's a whole different issue.
Is it me or is the world breeding more stupid people now than it used to, or is it just that there are now more people to start with so the percentage of stupid people is unchanged and there's just proportionally more of them?.....or am I just a cynical old bastid becoming more anti social as I get older?

That's enough of my idle musing.....

I can't hold my breath long enough to read all that in one gulp.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

Is it me or is the world breeding more stupid people now than it used to,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/

JP

[CoupeKing]

Too much reality television and hand sanitizers, where de-evolving.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

Don't confuse being 'smart' with being 'intelligent'. They are quite different. A highly intelligent person can be very stupid, a person with average intelligence can be very smart.

Smart is how you use your intelligence, how you integrate it with experience, how you observe and learn from your environment, how you listen and apply knowledge.

Intelligence is what you are capable of, but it's rarely is used to capacity. Sort of like the raw material.

I work in the Education industry..... A number means squat...

I have seen some really dumb 'smart' people.

I have seen some really smart 'dumb' people.

[Bushbasher]

Originally Posted by zilo

I can't hold my breath long enough to read all that in one gulp.

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Too much reality television and hand sanitizers, where de-evolving.

[Bushbasher]

I guess what I was alluding to in my OP was that there seems to be more supposedly intelligent people that just don't seem to engage their brain before they act. We seem to be breeding generations of lazy thinkers because they're spoon fed everything they are supposed to think and do by our over regulated and overly PC society that seems to be determined to pack us all in cotton wool,(metaphorically speaking), for our own good.

One of the problems with that though, as I see it, is that natural selection is bypassed because even the walking disasters get to survive and breed even more walking disasters - that then become another statistic - that then gives the nannies more reason to impose even more restrictive regulations............it's a downward spiral............WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!!

[Lotte]

Smart enough to not need warnings like "do not start near genitals" on chainsaws and that kind of thing.
If you're not that smart, you deserve to be eradicated from the gene pool.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

I guess what I was alluding to in my OP was that there seems to be more supposedly intelligent people that just don't seem to engage their brain before they act. We seem to be breeding generations of lazy thinkers because they're spoon fed everything they are supposed to think and do by our over regulated and overly PC society that seems to be determined to pack us all in cotton wool,(metaphorically speaking), for our own good.

One of the problems with that though, as I see it, is that natural selection is bypassed because even the walking disasters get to survive and breed even more walking disasters - that then become another statistic - that then gives the nannies more reason to impose even more restrictive regulations............it's a downward spiral............WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!!

I don't believe you can measure how intelligent one is truly but you could measure retardation.

Look at Australia's so called smartest man, he is just an idiot in other ways.

Look at people that are like Sheldon Cooper, just twits, smart but stupid as.

Look at people who pass with top marks in test at school and they are hopeless fools at work.

I remember having an argument about history with the teacher in grade 6. I said my Grand dad was there and told me what the story was, and I was backed up by 4 others in the class, now who am I to believe ?
Old teacher went right off his rocker and said this is what you will be tested on for your report card, it does not mater if it's right or wrong.

School kids nowadays think they know it all, as they are brought up by the same type of brainwashing the Nazi's used on there kids, especially the university ones. they can't think for themselves, as they have not learned how and the ones who teach them have never lived in the real world to know the truth as it's all just theoretical.

[Davehoos]

When looking for a learning disorder various IQ testing returned a range of results. Including 80 for assembly of wooden block thingies.
the important quotant [sp?] as far as high school was concerned was 119-and number I remember because my brainy neighbour bettered myself by 0.5 and went to university.

My learning disorder was eyesight connection to brain. But educators then as now call results bellow expectations.

As for are people dumber now than then--going by the encouragement Ive had since I was 10 from elders to give leadership Im convinced that along with a few % being smart another few % have common sence.

the crossover is some of the few have both but its more by acciedent than design.

[LoudPipes]

As you get older you usually become more aware of your mortality.
That helps play a big part in reducing risk taking activities.

Intelligence and academic ability has never been seen as one and the same.

A sign of intelligence is the ability to control ones emotions.

[onfire]

We're really talking about the difference between the wise & the naive.

One being the ability to think and act using knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense, and insight. And the other, showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgement.

[2011G6E]

An IQ test is merely a test of how well you can pass an IQ test...

[castellan]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

As you get older you usually become more aware of your mortality.
That helps play a big part in reducing risk taking activities.

Intelligence and academic ability has never been seen as one and the same.

A sign of intelligence is the ability to control ones emotions.

If someone claiming to be a friend say and by worming his way in to some ones life and then cold heartedly murdered a loved one of yours only for their money.
Well I would think one would get emotional as in tears as in being upset, but still being in control of oneself and point to the facts about the total story.

If one did not show any emotion in such a case I would think with such a person that something very wrong with him.

Could one sit there as such with a stiff upper lip, be due to intelligence in that case.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Too much reality television and hand sanitizers, where de-evolving.

An old work friend once asked me to check her car. She 'thought there may be something wrong with the tyre' but needed me to confirm? Confused, I went out to the car park.

I came out and found this....



Oh, you could see right through the sidewall. By the way, this is what happens when you drive 15km on a flat.



I made the comment that the tyre would need to be changed. She said something about how her husband / son will change it for her at home. Yep, she would have driven that home had I not offered to change it for her

So why didn't she get her husband or mid 20's son to change the tyre in the morning??? They were sleeping of course... Dahhhhh!

I believe her 'degree' count was 3....

As for the hand sanitizer.... you may be onto something there!

While I was traveling through SE Asia - Laos I think, I was with a group that seemed to be almost totally made up of 18-20 year old Brits. They would lather their hands several times a day with that crap. They were 'experts' at this stuff you see?? They have read all the books, watched all the travel advisory shows and of course asked their peers how to make sure they don't catch any bugs..

They seemed to get sick very often I noticed. I poor lad needed to be hospitalized, several over the course of the week I was with them stayed in their hotel beds all day sick as a dog....

Me on the other hand - fit as a fiddle...

Hang on?? I didn't use hand sanitizer?? That can't be right???

You see, they had no issue smoking a box of no name fags a day, and rejoiced in the fact that at 80c a pack they were cheap. They also had no issue drinking the local 45% alcohol, at $2-3 a bottle it was 'much cheaper than at home' so they did... to great excess

But those hands... nice and clean! Just to be on the 'safe side'....

I changed my FB profile to this just to Pee them off



I guess I had a few years on them but my (and the tour leaders) advice to lay off the local smokes and booze fell on deaf ears

[Franco Cozzo]

^ I did 500m on a flat because I cbf changing the wheel at night in the cold and by the time I got it into my driveway, the wheel was rooted and the tyre came off the wheel. Not only that but it was making a horrible noise of the wheel edge on the road as I was limping it down my court lol.

Let alone attempting 15km on it lol.

[Ford_The_Win]

'Intelligence' is a very broad construct and means different things to different people. To get an accurate idea of an individual's intelligence takes a while...social and occupational functioning, logical thought, memory, language and attentional capacities... all these things can affect a person's "intelligence" or how others perceive them.

A classic example is a person with autistic tendencies or on the autism spectrum - they have incredibly focused and one-sided attentional abilities which can make such a person incredibly book-smart and they tend to do quite well in school - but their social skills are lacking/undeveloped and they tend to have quite poor 'social' intelligence, ie. unable to read body language, tone of voice. Likewise there are some people around who are very street-smart and do well in certain professions... but lack the attentional and memory capacities to excel in education.

What I believe truly separates an 'intelligent' person from a so called 'non-intelligent' person is the capacity for abstract thought or to think 'outside the box' as a layperson might put it. I spent a considerable amount of time conducting intelligence testing as part of a research program. That is my personal opinion but in my experience it is the cornerstone to a lot of the other components of 'intelligence' and without that ability people do struggle.

And yes, IQ tests are flawed... not horribly, but they aren't perfect. Psychologists and other 'shrink' professionals know this and the results from which are considered alongside a range of other things.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

but their social skills are lacking/undeveloped and they tend to have quite poor 'social' intelligence, ie. unable to read body language, tone of voice.

I noticed this with one of my co-workers, he said he had high functioning autism and its noticable with his inability to understand jokes, or read people in general such as body language etc.

Very withdrawn from people, would only talk to those he saw as friends, wouldn't open up to anyone except me and another coworker.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by castellan

If someone claiming to be a friend say and by worming his way in to some ones life and then cold heartedly murdered a loved one of yours only for their money.
Well I would think one would get emotional as in tears as in being upset, but still being in control of oneself and point to the facts about the total story.

If one did not show any emotion in such a case I would think with such a person that something very wrong with him.

Could one sit there as such with a stiff upper lip, be due to intelligence in that case.

You misunderstand me or maybe I should have elaborated a little more.

I’m not talking about having no emotions, my comment is emotional control is a key indicator of intelligence.
It’s comes from a study I read in some subject matter my daughter had laying around the house when she was at university doing her Human Resources degree.

A less extreme example than yours is the person that gets upset over a minor issue and feels violence is the answer to the situation. Physically lashing out being a disproportionate emotional response to the situation is an indication the attacker lacks intelligence.

Your example of a cold hearted killing for gain is classic psychopathic tendencies.
The accepted and not disproportionate emotional response from the impacted victims would be of grief and all the anger, sadness, upsets and sense of loss that go with it.

There is a big difference between the reasoning for the two responses.

I hope that clears it a little better.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Nova 8

Older generations always believe their generation is better than the current. Statistics I've read in the past prove otherwise with each generations picking up responsibles sooner both in the work force and family than the previous generation.

Pigs ****.
I can assure you most definitely that my father's generation worked far harder and shouldered far more responsibility than mine.
And don't get me started on gen Y.

[Crazy Dazz]

Maybe slightly off topic, but I often wonder if "intelligence" is a curse.

On most IQ tests, I am basically off the scale. Depending on the test, I will come in around 160~165, and at that point most tests are not able to properly discriminate, and I would need to take specialised tests for high IQ.

So clearly my ability in the tested areas is high. Yet my ability in other areas is extremely limited. In the classical parlance I would be said to be "left"-brain dominant. (Although that nomenclature is factually erroneous.)
In fact I tick many of the boxes for Asperger's. At a further extreme along the same path are the savants.
This leads me to my theory: That the brain is designed to operate in balance, and extreme intelligence is actually a manifestation of an imbalance?

[vztrt]

I would say in percentage terms that common sense/stupidity are about the same. But there are more people now and people have cameras and the internet allows for more of this to be shown. Also stupid stuff people use to do wasn't looked upon as servilely as it is now.

One other thing people that seem to believe everything on the internet/social media. But that I guess would be a thread are people more gullible now then previously.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

You misunderstand me or maybe I should have elaborated a little more.

I’m not talking about having no emotions, my comment is emotional control is a key indicator of intelligence.
It’s comes from a study I read in some subject matter my daughter had laying around the house when she was at university doing her Human Resources degree.

A less extreme example than yours is the person that gets upset over a minor issue and feels violence is the answer to the situation. Physically lashing out being a disproportionate emotional response to the situation is an indication the attacker lacks intelligence.

Your example of a cold hearted killing for gain is classic psychopathic tendencies.
The accepted and not disproportionate emotional response from the impacted victims would be of grief and all the anger, sadness, upsets and sense of loss that go with it.

There is a big difference between the reasoning for the two responses.

I hope that clears it a little better.

I just wanted to put that forward to make sure.
I agree with you totally.

[Nova 8]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Pigs ****.
I can assure you most definitely that my father's generation worked far harder and shouldered far more responsibility than mine.
And don't get me started on gen Y.

Generation X loves nothing more than to trash Gen Y and to do everything they can to strip them of the chances given to them when they are young. I love hearing previous generations having a whinge about the youth of today.... Who the hell do you think is raising them? If you look at your kids and think you were better at that age then look in the mirror, you are their greatest influence.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Nova 8

Generation X loves nothing more than to trash Gen Y and to do everything they can to strip them of the chances given to them when they are young.

just clueless

[jpblue1000]

On average the 'next' generation is 7 IQ points brighter then their parents.
The world is a more complex place today then it was when 'your' parents were your age.
since the industrial revolution there has been a significant move towards 'specialisation' in the workplace with each generation being a phase change further away from base level of general skills.

you are an idiot! So am I.

JP