HOLDEN Boss: "Australians still want large cars

csv8 · 11-12-2010, 09:58 AM

HOLDEN: Australians still want large cars
Toby Hagon
December 10, 2010 - 3:22PM

Australians still want large cars according to Holden boss.
Holden boss says company is confident there is a future for Commodore - providing it continues fuel economy improvements.

Australians will still want large cars for large families and a large country, according to Holden chairman and CEO Mike Devereux.

But it will have to be more fuel efficient than ever, with Holden improving economy on the large car - the best seller for 15 straight years - to as little as 8.4 litres per 100km in the short term.

Speaking to journalists at an end of year lunch, he confirmed the next "two or three months" would involve some big decisions about the long term future of the Commodore.

"Long term we have some architectural decisions to be making in the next two, three months," said Devereux.
But he believes there is still a market for large cars, albeit one that is posing challenges for the likes of the locally produced Commodore and its Ford rival, the Falcon. The pair are focused largely on the Australian markets, reducing the economies of scale that inevitably come with more global products.

"We're still very confident Australians want to have families with backyards," said Devereux.

The current VE model Commodore went on sale in 2006 and its underpinnings are expected to continue until about 2015 when an all-new model is due. Until then there will be various styling and engineering updates, including the arrival of a dedicated LPG variant in the second half of 2011.

Holden will also add E85 capability - running on a mix of petrol and up to 85 per cent ethanol - next year as part of an MY12 (model year 2012) update.

Devereux confirmed various updates to the Commodore - many focusing on reduced fuel use - will reduce consumption to as little as 8.4 litres per 100km, an eight per cent improvement over today's Commodore.

It's understood everything is on the table for the all-new Commodore - which will have to continue at least five (or possibly 10) years into the future - including new body styles, engines and concepts.

**Falcon Coupe** · 11-12-2010, 10:35 AM

Well so far AFM and SIDI have failed to deliver and ethanol isn't wide spread enough to be feasible.

They are still barking up the wrong tree and need an ecoboost type engine.

glavas · 11-12-2010, 10:54 AM

Of course we want large cars who on earth would go on a family road trip in a swift!!!! Fuel consumption is good enough. I get 12l/100 km in a 335 rwkw v8 which in my books is awesome.

csv8 · 11-12-2010, 11:10 AM

I did it in a Festiva, Brisbane to Perth ..10 years ago!!!

glavas · 11-12-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

I did it in a Festiva, Brisbane to Perth ..10 years ago!!!

bit of a dare devil ay?

b0son · 11-12-2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

They are still barking up the wrong tree and need an ecoboost type engine.

So do Ford... or is it available at last?

b0son · 11-12-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glavas

Of course we want large cars who on earth would go on a family road trip in a swift!!!!

We take our GTI. It may be smaller but it is a better drive than my previous XR6 in every way. Handles better. Quicker. More comfortable inside. More comfortable for the driver over many hours (Syd->Ade 14hours). Uses way less fuel. Kids dont need the extra leg room which is about the only advantage the Falcon had. Even the boot in the Golf is more useable FFS..

LeadFoot81 · 11-12-2010, 01:49 PM

'Small' cars have come a long way in a short space of time. You don't need a Falcon or Commodore to be comfy anymore.

I want to see the Commodore and Falcon to continue on indefinitely but Holden and Ford need to figure out exactly what the X-Factor is (or should be) for their large cars, and exploit it.

I've found myself increasingly tempted by the new Fiesta as a run-around, or the 2011 Focus Zetec/ST as a proper alternative to a Falcon. So much bang for your buck! (The AU XR8 will stay in the ledfoot household indefinitely as a weekender however, I love it too mch)

ST · 11-12-2010, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

We take our GTI. It may be smaller but it is a better drive than my previous XR6 in every way. Handles better. Quicker. More comfortable inside. More comfortable for the driver over many hours (Syd->Ade 14hours). Uses way less fuel. Kids dont need the extra leg room which is about the only advantage the Falcon had. Even the boot in the Golf is more useable FFS..

Your previous Falcon didn't happen to have a Fiesta badge on the back did it?

A lot of those points are understandable (and subjective), but the boot? You are kidding yourself there.

As for the topic at hand, I don't believe Australians in general still want large cars. When you see tradies driving around in Hyundai Excels you know the day of the large car is over.

csv8 · 11-12-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glavas

bit of a dare devil ay?

No !! mad!!! but a fun trip!!

kezzer · 11-12-2010, 02:06 PM

A G6e is much more comfortable then any GTI I've been in (misses has one). Look at the price difference also, 5k in some circumstances. No thanks.

I hope large cars stick around for many years to come.

tex · 11-12-2010, 02:15 PM

Small cars suck for long trips.

We have a 4 month old Audi S3, while it is a nice little package, for spending anything more than an hour in it becomes painful. Literally.

The seats are hard, the suspension is hard (not firm, it is bloody hard) and it is cramped for two of us in the front - can't even 'share' the centre arm rest FFS.

And I make this comparison to Falcon sized cars - specifically our GT. It is modified for circuit action and is still 10x more comfortable to drive on Tasmanian pot holed and chopped up tarmac - which is 90% of roadways down here.

b0son · 11-12-2010, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST

A lot of those points are understandable (and subjective), but the boot? You are kidding yourself there.

It's big, yes. But while it's wide, it's too shallow.

b0son · 11-12-2010, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kezzer

Look at the price difference also, 5k in some circumstances.

Nowadays, yes. The Falcons have come down in price relatively speaking. The price gap between small and big cars has fallen.

Why? Because unlike Holden's assertion, people dont want big cars anywhere near as much as they used to. One more oil price spike, and say goodbye to the Falcadore.

ST · 11-12-2010, 02:30 PM

Really? Which Falcon did you have before your Golf?

In both my AU and BF I can fit a massive 4 speaker stack with pre-amp, something which I cannot do in a Golf boot at all.

The only objective point that can be made is the Falcon boot has much more capacity.

b0son · 11-12-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST

Really? Which Falcon did you have before your Golf?

BA.

Quote:

The only objective point that can be made is the Falcon boot has much more capacity.

true, I just found it mostly unuseable for the size/shape of things I needed to carry. TBH, even the rear door shape made it impractical sticking big things on the back seat

eg. getting a filing cabinet home from officeworks - couldnt be done in the falcon in the boot or on the back seat. could in a golf, go figure.

maybe its somthing to do with some of the bigger makers starting to make large hatchbacks... ?

flappist · 11-12-2010, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glavas

I get 12l/100 km in a 335 rwkw v8 which in my books is awesome.

Yes of course you do........

But what about when you get to the bottom of the big long hill and have to go up the next one?

LeadFoot81 · 11-12-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

BA.

true, I just found it mostly unuseable for the size/shape of things I needed to carry. TBH, even the rear door shape made it impractical sticking big things on the back seat

eg. getting a filing cabinet home from officeworks - couldnt be done in the falcon in the boot or on the back seat. could in a golf, go figure.

maybe its somthing to do with some of the bigger makers starting to make large hatchbacks... ?

I agree re hatchbacks: the space is just so much more usable/accessible than the space in a sedan. Stuff I couldnt get into my AU went straight into the Mrs' WQ Fiesta. Her new WS is even bigger.

ST · 11-12-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

BA.

true, I just found it mostly unuseable for the size/shape of things I needed to carry. TBH, even the rear door shape made it impractical sticking big things on the back seat

eg. getting a filing cabinet home from officeworks - couldnt be done in the falcon in the boot or on the back seat. could in a golf, go figure.

maybe its somthing to do with some of the bigger makers starting to make large hatchbacks... ?

Have to agree with the rear door issue, that has been notorious in the Falcon for a while. It just doesn't open anywhere near as much as it should and who knows why. Very frustrating, especially when (as you have proven) it can come in handy.

But as far as the boot goes I still can't see how it would ever be more advantageous to have a Golf boot rather than a Falcon. There is so much less capacity and barely any more depth.

b0son · 11-12-2010, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST

But as far as the boot goes I still can't see how it would ever be more advantageous to have a Golf boot rather than a Falcon. There is so much less capacity and barely any more depth.

Way more depth - the parcel shelf is removable, so you can pack right to the roof.

If you fold the rear seats, the opening between cabin and boot is far bigger in the golf (and other hatchbacks)... like a stationwagon.

glavas · 11-12-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes of course you do........

But what about when you get to the bottom of the big long hill and have to go up the next one?

I dont get what you mean???? A small 4 cylinder hatch with gear in the boot and 4 adults would struggle up a steep hill you would have to rev it's guts out. Were my maloo could do it with 8 people in the tray and not even break a sweat. Frankly these whole thing about little cars being better on fuel is nonsense. Large cars have come along way in the fuel consumption department. And after owning v8's all my life I still believe if your getting under 15l/100km your doing well.

ST · 11-12-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

Way more depth - the parcel shelf is removable, so you can pack right to the roof.

If you fold the rear seats, the opening between cabin and boot is far bigger in the golf (and other hatchbacks)... like a stationwagon.

Ahh fair enough, I did not actually know this. That would definitely be useful. I take back what I said, the Golf does have a superior boot (and more capacity with the parcel shelf removed).

b0son · 11-12-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glavas

And after owning v8's all my life I still believe if your getting under 15l/100km your doing well.

If you enjoy watching your money going up in smoke... I wouldnt even look at a car anymore that cant get under 10l/100km.

LeadFoot81 · 11-12-2010, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

If you enjoy watching your money going up in smoke... I wouldnt even look at a car anymore that cant get under 10l/100km.

Power (and in this case 'that v8 feel') is a luxury that you pay extra for, no different than paying extra for leather or a sunroof etc etc

glavas · 11-12-2010, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

If you enjoy watching your money going up in smoke... I wouldnt even look at a car anymore that cant get under 10l/100km.

I don't smoke I don't drink I own my cars and my houses I earn 120k a year. Driving around in a v8 is the only real enjoyment I have going for me. I only drive 10000 km a year anyway.

prydey · 11-12-2010, 06:05 PM

interesting - holden are releasing a dedicated lpg commodore in the 2nd half of 2011. that will be a blow to falcon. they have had an exclusive product up until now. bit of a lapse at the moment waiting for the new one to come online. i wonder if it will be the same orbital system on the commodore.

and yes, i agree with the holden boss - people do still want large cars. the number of people is less, but there is still a market.

b055m4n · 11-12-2010, 06:07 PM

hi guys my 06 bf xr8 6 speed manual consistantly returns 9.2-9.6 L/100 fully loaded four adults and luggage driving down the hume to melbourne i love it.

Ben73 · 11-12-2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b055m4n

hi guys my 06 bf xr8 6 speed manual consistantly returns 9.2-9.6 L/100 fully loaded four adults and luggage driving down the hume to melbourne i love it.

I drove a 2009 2.4L 4 cylinder petrol Softroader down the F3 yesterday with 5 people in it and NO Luggage, The average fuel consumption on the freeway was 9.8-10.4L/10kms. FROM A 4 cylinder!!!!

Softroaders are ****!

bobthebilda · 11-12-2010, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b055m4n

hi guys my 06 bf xr8 6 speed manual consistantly returns 9.2-9.6 L/100 fully loaded four adults and luggage driving down the hume to melbourne i love it.

Yeah, but like you said, your heading south. Your always gonna get better fuel economy driving downhill

GreenR · 11-12-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

HOLDEN: Australians still want large cars
Toby Hagon
December 10, 2010 - 3:22PM

"We're still very confident Australians want to have families with backyards," said Devereux.

?? What has backyards got to do with anything. What, families still want to be able to drive their Commodore around the back and park it next the BBQ to lapp up their "Aussiness" while cooking up a Saturday lunch
Families I can understand but still, 4 cylinder cars are suffice for many families.