The Ashes

prydey · 21-07-2009, 11:49 AM

2 tests down and no discussion on AFF. some would say thats a good thing.

right off the top i would ask that any discussions be kept mature. please keep the aussie/pom bashing to a minimum. many like to criticise the way the aussies play the game but from what i've seen so far neither side is perfect.

summary so far.
england have scored 1423 runs in 4 innings and taken 26 wickets.
aussies have scored 1295 runs in 3 innings and taken 35 wickets.

unfortunately for the aussies, even though those stats look pretty even or slightly in aussies favour, they don't count for much and we are now down 1 nil with 3 to go.

one thing i will say though, and it was evident in 2005 as well, is the english players spend a lot of time off the ground. some reasons are legit however when players come into the match carrying an injury its a bit rich they then leave the field a few times each day to get 'patched up' or 'injected' etc. not a fan.

mitchell johnson is having a real struggle. slow mo's show he is struggling with the release/seam position. his arm is also too low and the lack of success just snowballs and his confidence drops. 2 bad tests doesn't mean he should be dropped though. he will come good and at his best he is a match for most around the world.

i would like to see s.clark brought in for siddle though. i know the current crop did well in south africa but clark deserves his spot in the side. the win/loss % is much higher with clark in the squad. i think they missed a trick at lords given how successful mcgrath has been there.

i would like to see lee back in too but thats more of a personal preference. unfortunately you can't drop hilfy, johnson or hauritz and siddle should move over for clark.

freddie flintoff - i'm a passionate aussie supporter but you just have to love this guy. he's on one leg and still sends 'em down close to 150km/h. there is always a smirk on his face, even when he has a few pointers for the batsmen it always seems friendly. he was also the first to shake hands with the batsmen whilst all the others were jumping around. plays the game in a great spirit.

easily the best contest in cricket going around. englands form has been woeful since 2005 where they were ranked no.2 but against australia they come to the party.

tud184 · 21-07-2009, 12:14 PM

I dont see why siddle should get dropped when he is bowling good. Johnson is the one that needs to be dropped the amount of runs hes going for i really cant see him been the spearhead of the team they need lee and clarke back,two bowlers that are in good form and are the sitting on the sideline.

prydey · 21-07-2009, 12:20 PM

like i said, 2 bad tests doesn't make him a bad bowler. lee is still under a fitness cloud and isn't exactly frugal with his bowling either. he can be but he can also leak plenty of runs.

DBourne · 21-07-2009, 12:28 PM

im surprised Clark hasn't been brought in.

it was also depressing to see us completey out play england in the first and get no result, and then to crumble in the second.

T3man · 21-07-2009, 12:28 PM

I'd like to see some decent umpiring decisions. It's a bad as the footy!

Both teams have had some good times and some bad. England has had most of the "luck" from what I've seen and I don't believe they deserve to be up a game. That will make the Aussies try harder I hope and blitz them in the next few games.

PS. I also don't like the Poms' poor show of sportsmanship - just not cricket!

Swordsman88 · 21-07-2009, 12:31 PM

I'll post in here in more detail when i have some more thoughts....bit distracted at the moment. Suffice is to say that i'm find it a very scrappy tour so far. In fact both sides are playing some pretty ordinary cricket at times. If it wasn't for the spirit of the ashes i'd probably not really follow this series given the poor lead up by both teams in my opinion.

For one, i didn't buy the whole 'comeback' australia had in south africa. Yes it was impressive but the bowlers are not a mob i have full confidence in at yet. I agree clark should be in the bowling attack, particularly with the most experiened bowler out injured. Siddle isn't getting the job done for me, then again, niether is johnson (i always though he was overated, but his recent form was proving me wrong...or so i thought).

The poms have done well but one gets the feeling its all a bit tenuous.Injuries combined with a lack of reall consistency doesn't bode well in the long run. Some of their younger players are worse then ours...its only the experience of flintoff, straus, collingwood and peterson holding them up.

Interesting to see how things go in the next three matches. Oh and i'm no fan of the english pitches. Utter boredom and not providing much for the bowlers. Spiners aren't getting enough to work with and fast men aren't rewarded. Cardiff pitch = major fail for me!!!!

prydey · 21-07-2009, 12:36 PM

just out of interest these are the bowling figures so far

0VERS/RUNS/WICKETS
hilfenhaus 92/286/9
johnson 82.4/331/8
siddle 80.2/312/7
hauritz 85.2/264/9

Hords · 21-07-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

just out of interest these are the bowling figures so far

0VERS/RUNS/WICKETS
hilfenhaus 92/286/9
johnson 82.4/331/8
siddle 80.2/312/7
hauritz 85.2/264/9

Good to see Hilfenhaus leading. I wouldn't drop Siddle though, he can be a surprise packet. The series (in my opinion) will hinge on the next test.

michael_ozzie · 21-07-2009, 01:12 PM

Agreed, I can't remember hearing that Clark had done anything wrong, and its just what we need in the team, someone who is able to hit a spot and make the batter nervous. Flintoff filled a similar purpose, but at a faster pace of course.

My biggest gripe would be the umpires performance. Not saying it was bias, but I firmly believe that if the technology is available, then it should be used.

EG.1 The catch at 1st slip that Mike Hussey didn't hit
EG.2 The catch that Andrew Strauss took, which hit the ground first.

These missed opportunities to use the technology available COULD (not saying would) have helped us over the line for a win.
And its not enough to ask whether the ball carried or whether it hit in line. If the umpire is not CERTAIN that what he saw in real time was correct, then the whole case (whether it hit line line, whether the ball carried, whether the ball pitched outside leg stump etc...) and make a decision. Only when the 3rd umpire is CERTAIN, can the batter be given out. Obviously not needed when the ball is straight through the pegs, but I think that unless the standing umpire is 110% sure, then they should refer it.
Just my 2 cents.

prydey · 21-07-2009, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hords

Good to see Hilfenhaus leading. I wouldn't drop Siddle though, he can be a surprise packet. The series (in my opinion) will hinge on the next test.

i don't think any of the bowlers 'deserve' to get dropped but unfortunately someone has to make way for clark in my opinion. i think they missed a trick at lords. mcgrath has been so successful there over the years with consistant line and length. this is where clark excels. not one of the 3 pacemen in the side at the moment bowled 6 consecutive balls on a good line and length.

australia need to win 2 out of 3 to retain the urn. lets hope the famous english weather doesn't play too big a part and the umpires improve somewhat. at least we don't have billy bowden standing in.

Archilino · 22-07-2009, 12:36 AM

It seems the english are targetting johnson like they targetted gillespie in '05. Strauss said every bal ball he bowls they will punish him for it, but he is too good to drop...for now.

The pressure on ponting seems to build as the days go by, if we lose the series he will go down in history as the first aussie captain in 120 years to lose 2 succesive series on english soil. Whilst a brilliant bastman who will become australias highest ever run scorer next test it would be a daming legacy to leave as a player. Hughes and Hussey are the weak links at the momen, hughes is suspect to short bowling and perhaps reading his own press whilst hussey is all at sea.

prydey · 22-07-2009, 09:26 AM

is phil jaques still injured?? why would they not take a spare opener on tour. what about brad hodge. he's turning out to be another one of these unlucky people born at the wrong time.

england admitted they could see johnson was off and they capitalised on that by targeting him. hopefully between now and edgbaston they can fix his action and get his confidence up.

also two tests and no winning of the toss. not only do they use a different ball, they are obviously not using our coin!!

RG · 22-07-2009, 10:20 AM

For me the problem is a lack of bowling pressure. Sure we have blokes there who can take a wicket or few but there just isn't the bowling pressure there that you get with Lee and Clark on the attack. Sure Lee leaks a few runs but there is the undeniable fact that he creates massive pressure, you can almost call a wicket in one of his spells 8 balls before it happens. Clark is no different, nothing creates more pressure than good old line and length.

prydey · 22-07-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

For me the problem is a lack of bowling pressure. Sure we have blokes there who can take a wicket or few but there just isn't the bowling pressure there that you get with Lee and Clark on the attack. Sure Lee leaks a few runs but there is the undeniable fact that he creates massive pressure, you can almost call a wicket in one of his spells 8 balls before it happens. Clark is no different, nothing creates more pressure than good old line and length.

agree 100% when mcgrath (and clark) was bowling as a viewer you pretty much knew where each ball was going. the ability to bowl ball after ball in the same spot is unique and for all the ability of the current crop to take wickets, i'm not sure they are that good at consistancy. too wide and the batsman knows he doesn't have to hit it. not wide enough and the batsman knows he has to hit it. bowl it in that middle area that puts the batsman in 2 minds and you will get wickets.

also whatever happened to bowling at the stumps when you get to the tail? flintoff did and knocked us over. in cardiff we were bowling everywhere but the stumps. full and straight. you miss i hit.

XR8putts · 22-07-2009, 08:14 PM

Me being me I've really enjoyed the first two tests, even the draw was a thriller.

I believe Mitchell Johnson is just not up to scratch for this series. This series so far and the South African tour to Aus for me highlighted how much you guys miss the likes of McGrath and Gillespie. The batting line up in my opinion is fine, don't touch that. Will Brett Lee be fit for the next test? If he is then I believe Johnson needs to step aside for one game and Brett Lee take his role.

All epic test series has some controversy, this one has been no different so far. I think Australia should not get so fired up sometimes and remain cool and collected like they have in the past.

There have been about 3-4 critical sessions in the last two tests, and England did much better than Australia in these critical sessions, apart from this the two teams are fairly even - I'd go so far to say Australia have been better.

To ressurect the title of the last thread; is the golden era of Australian cricket over? - In my opinion if England retain the Ashes then the answer is deffinately yes. You could argue it was over at the end of the South African tour, but this is the decider for me.

**FTE217** · 22-07-2009, 09:02 PM

Ofcourse the "golden era" is over, anyone thinking its still there is kidding themselves.
In saying that from what I have seen so far the poms arn't any better infact fortunate things have gone their way, if they win the ashs it will be from our mistakes for as a whole the current crop of guys once there's some more synergy and luck turns for better they are the better team and I'm not being biased.
Pontings decisions will be crutial this coming test, can he deliver and steer this current team.

prydey · 22-07-2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puts99

Me being me I've really enjoyed the first two tests, even the draw was a thriller.

make the most of the next 3. i believe a big part of the reason the 05 series and so far this one have been quite a good contest, is freddie flintoff. without him, england look ordinary. there are times in the game, esp the 1st day or so of cardiff, they just looked flat, but freddie, whenever he comes on manages to revive a spark somewhere and you see the whole team and spectators lift.

before 05 he was a nobody, between 05 and 09 he's played very little cricket and the cricket he has played has been well below his 05 standard. all of a sudden in 09 he's back to looking every bit as dangerous as 05.

i think both teams will look quite different, maybe not so much in our summer, but 4 yrs time i'm not sure it will have the same flavour.

as for the golden era, it depends how you look at it. australia are definitely not dominating like they once were. they are now a very beatable side. they are still ranked no.1 though and are still winning games. i find the fact that they are still winning testament to the depth of aussie cricket. consider the names that have left the side- langer, hayden, martyn, symonds, gilly, warne, mcgrath. you could have 4 school kids make up the 11 and those 7 players would still win you a few games of cricket. you don't lose that sort of talent and not have some sort of effect. australia will flounder around for a few years now, maybe even stay at the top, until they unearth the next bunch of special talent.

prydey · 23-07-2009, 09:51 AM

pieterson out for rest of series. whilst it may sound like a major blow, he hasn't been too damaging so far. still unfortunate though as we all know what he's capable of

RG · 23-07-2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

pieterson out for rest of series. whilst it may sound like a major blow, he hasn't been too damaging so far. still unfortunate though as we all know what he's capable of

Whilst he hasn't been in good form of late I still think it is a big blow psychologically. He adds a certain dynamic to the team that just can't be replaced.

**FTE217** · 23-07-2009, 10:01 AM

Yer good he's out can cut us up when we don't need it haha

RG · 23-07-2009, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Yer good he's out can cut us up when we don't need it haha

That's the other thing, he is one of those people that can miraculously return to form at just the right time for his team. Something we don't need.

Paxton · 23-07-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archilino

The pressure on ponting seems to build as the days go by, if we lose the series he will go down in history as the first aussie captain in 120 years to lose 2 succesive series on english soil. Whilst a brilliant bastman who will become australias highest ever run scorer next test it would be a daming legacy to leave as a player. Hughes and Hussey are the weak links at the momen, hughes is suspect to short bowling and perhaps reading his own press whilst hussey is all at sea.

I am not now, and never have been a fan of Ponting. His arrogance, and inability shows through, as he was handed a team that was unbeatable, and then proceeded to go out and as good as lose us our number one ranking, and a Test in Lords, after 75 years. If the Captaincy had have gone to someone like Gillchrist, things may have been different. Obviously, Swisse does you no good either.

The Australian team has lost the cohesion that it showed in years gone by. The attack is lacking (looking at Hussey), and the bowlers are missing the strike bowler that was evident in McGrath, and Lee. If this was another Country, and another team under scrutiny, changes would be made from the off. Just because this is Australia's team, and they can do no wrong (except lose, but that doesn't count) seems to be a good enough reason to leave the team be as it is. Strange.

prydey · 23-07-2009, 10:58 AM

ponting is a great batsman, and i don't think he is a dud captain, however i don't think he is the fantastic captain he gets made out to be. donald duck could've just about got his record with the team he was given. now he is finding out what it means to be a leading captain, and he is being found out.

katich is a handy bowler and yet very rarely does ponting go to him until all other options have been exhausted. their was a rumour of a 'spat' between them but they were denied apparently.

australia are being found out in the bowling ranks by being asked to bowl first. an in form johnson could deliver but he's out of sorts and there is no back up. the other guys, as good as they've been, just don't have the strike power. i thought i was a minority wanting lee back in the squad but its refreshing to see everyone on here backing him.

lets hope we win the toss at edgbaston. maybe hughes will perform better when there isn't 400+ opposition runs on the board. cardiff showed that our batsmen are good enough. it also showed that when under pressure, englands batsmen crumbled.

Wally · 23-07-2009, 11:20 AM

I think the team has been weakened, because the mongrel has been taken out of it. The bad boys have been shunted out, the rowdyness eliminated and the wives are in tow. That's not to say the team isn't talented, just that they have too many codes of conduct to consider instead of getting on wiping the floor with the pommies and making apologies later.

GeoNazi · 23-07-2009, 11:37 AM

Cricket is a bloody boring game when watched.... when played it is a great game (or is this just me) I don't care for cricket much.. but the thing that annoys me is the whole ashes urn drama about saying in the UK regardless of winners

**FTE217** · 23-07-2009, 12:04 PM

Lee needs to be back period ! purely to boost the morale imo and importantly stick some "bodyline" stratergy into the poms, they would have been very pleased not seeing him the last 2tests.

gtxb67 · 23-07-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

make the most of the next 3. i believe a big part of the reason the 05 series and so far this one have been quite a good contest, is freddie flintoff. without him, england look ordinary. there are times in the game, esp the 1st day or so of cardiff, they just looked flat, but freddie, whenever he comes on manages to revive a spark somewhere and you see the whole team and spectators lift.

he is a very dangerous player without a doubt, but it could be fair to say the rain delays saved them in the first test. the rain worked against us in the 2nd test. going off 2 or 3 times in an innings and having moisture in the air does not help any side batting and there were 4 dubious decisions that cost us - and they were number 1, 2, 3 & 4 in our order. if 1, 2 & 4 were not given out in the 2nd innings it may have been different

good luck to england, they played well and closed it out, but australia is far from a spent force. we may have lost 2 test series out of 4 recently but they were to the 2nd and 3rd ranked sides and one of them was away. we are not doing too bad at all

prydey · 24-07-2009, 12:36 AM

by no means was i saying aussies are spent or even up against it like the scoreline looks. i was more talking about the emotional side of things. the build up and the tension and drama. before 05 it was just another series that teh aussies were going to romp in. since then the rivalry has lifted a notch but i fear another 4 years a lot of the players that make it that way will have left.

prydey · 24-07-2009, 11:10 AM

lee has ruled himself out of the third test. should make johnson breathe a bit easier and take a bit of pressure off him. not something he needs right now.

gtxb67 · 24-07-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

by no means was i saying aussies are spent or even up against it like the scoreline looks. i was more talking about the emotional side of things. the build up and the tension and drama. before 05 it was just another series that teh aussies were going to romp in. since then the rivalry has lifted a notch but i fear another 4 years a lot of the players that make it that way will have left.

sorry prydey, i did not mean that at all

i put a couple of extra lines between the part i was quoting and my opinion to hopefully differentiate beteen the two. it probably did not work that way though