Your opinion on engine oil flushes?

Franco Cozzo · 25-12-2010, 10:52 PM

Hey guys, I'm just curious what everyones experiences are with these "engine oil flush" additives you can get from auto retailers? I used a Wynns engine oil flush when I serviced Dad's car about 10,000km ago, what I did was drained out the old oil, removed the old oil filter, put a new one on, filled it up with some new cheap 20W-50, added the oil flush into it, then let it idle for an hour, then drained it, but the oil didn't really come out that discoloured, it was still that gold colour but slightly darker.

I'm giving it a go this service except with a different brand, though it seems Americans have some obsession with this stuff called "Seafoam" or something from Subaru in a spraycan.

Here is an advertising thing for Seafoam, it makes one hell of a smokeshow:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0865726229173#

Dad's car has 265,000km on the clock.

Also what about using diesel oil? I assume it has a stronger detergent package than normal petrol oil right? Is i safe to use in petrol engines?

MO · 25-12-2010, 11:18 PM

Damo be careful with this it could give you more grief than good. The build up of sludge or whatever could be holding things together flush it all out and you could end up with a very noisey motor that could die real soon.

**GasoLane** · 25-12-2010, 11:22 PM

Yep, what MO said. And new detergent oils in old engines could really clean the old oil seals out and make it leak like a sieve.

atec77 · 25-12-2010, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Hey guys, I'm just curious what everyones experiences are with these "engine oil flush" additives you can get from auto retailers? I used a Wynns engine oil flush when I serviced Dad's car about 10,000km ago, what I did was drained out the old oil, removed the old oil filter, put a new one on, filled it up with some new cheap 20W-50, added the oil flush into it, then let it idle for an hour, then drained it, but the oil didn't really come out that discoloured, it was still that gold colour but slightly darker.

I'm giving it a go this service except with a different brand, though it seems Americans have some obsession with this stuff called "Seafoam" or something from Subaru in a spraycan.

Here is an advertising thing for Seafoam, it makes one hell of a smokeshow:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0865726229173#

Dad's car has 265,000km on the clock.

Also what about using diesel oil? I assume it has a stronger detergent package than normal petrol oil right? Is i safe to use in petrol engines?

Modern oils have done away with the generalflush and I suggest you wont need to do so for a long time , sea foam actually works pretty well but at such little k's why bother , a tune up with leads and plugs is a far better idea
My old ute has 435k and still retains it's oil seals due to 6k services for 10 years .

XD 351 Ute · 25-12-2010, 11:44 PM

As far as I know, the Subaru stuff in a can is only intended for Subarus, and maybe Volkswagens that have the horizontal cylinders.

I believe it is used to remove carbon that builds up on the pistons/rings as a result of them operating in that position.

As far as an oil flush is concerned, you would probably only do it if you're running in a newly rebuilt engine, and after that first initial change revert to a normal operating specification oil.

Some people don't even use running in oils anymore, but other than that, change your filter every 10,000k or so and you'll be sweet.

Filters are cheap, well Z9s at least, so that's what I do.

Ed

**ebxr8240** · 25-12-2010, 11:54 PM

Yep there's a G.M product also..
It's best used as cylinder carbon cleaner..
Personally I would just set up another windscreen cleaner bottle as water injection with maybe 50/ 50 mix with metho....On a switch which comes on 1/3 throttle..On bend outside throttle body...
Cheap clean and cools inlet charge in hot weather..
Ever noticed on a blown head gasket .. How clean the cylinders are where it's blown ???

HSVKILLA · 26-12-2010, 07:33 AM

I used an engine flusher on a 91 falcon which was an absolute mint quiet runner(360,000 k's) until i used that s&*t ,followed the instructions to the tee and my lifters started tapping like an old type writer and never got it back to that smooth runner again,NEVER AGAIN WILL I USE IT.

smoo · 26-12-2010, 08:36 AM

I've run diesel engine oil we use at work thru my old Cherokee on 300k and BMW 525i on 260k, no worries. Was too scared to put in in my then AU on 570k but am slowly using it on my EF at 370k. I don't think its necessary but it is free.
A guy at work bought a late 90s BMW 525i with Vanos, and it had noisey lifters. He ran ATF thru it at idle for an hour, changed the filter with new SI engine oil and it was as good as new to this day.

2.8L Hilux · 26-12-2010, 08:47 AM

I used the Nulon engine flush on my old diesel Hilux which had 300,000kms on the clock. About 2 weeks after using the flush the rear main started leaking. Could have been a coincidence?

I don't think i'd leave the engine idling for an hour with engine flush in it though. Engine flushes strip the oil of viscosity leaving the oil with no lubrication properties.

jpd80 · 26-12-2010, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atec77

Modern oils have done away with the generalflush and I suggest you wont need to do so for a long time , sea foam actually works pretty well but at such little k's why bother , a tune up with leads and plugs is a far better idea
My old ute has 435k and still retains it's oil seals due to 6k services for 10 years .

I agree, older mineral oils used to gludge up inside high mileage vehicles but the modern blended synthetic of fully synthetics don't need to be flushed.

The best thing you can do for your engine is shout it new oil every 5,000 or 8,000 klm and
keeping contaminant level down in your oil will help fuel economy by lowering friction and wear.

Franco Cozzo · 26-12-2010, 10:05 AM

I think the engine is sluged up pretty badly, if you look in the oil cap with a flashlight, you can see all the old oil looks like its baked on inside there. It went from 40,000km to 190,000km without being serviced, just had oil topups with anything Dad got his hands on, when it got done at 190,000km the dealership had to replace the oil pump and clean out all the sludge in the sump and do a lot of other things like timing belt, etc.

The last two times it was serviced at the dealer and at a BP petrol station mechanic, they used the 10W-30 its supposed to be filled up with but it burnt through an entire sump of oil before 10,000km, the oil light started to come on, I serviced it last with 15W-50 and it doesnt seem to have burnt anywhere near as much, the engine is pretty tired, the car hesitates to rev out and it just seems to make more noise rather than accelerate harder.

Aulpgute · 26-12-2010, 10:31 AM

All valid opinions above. Probably not good in a clean later model engine. Where I have seen it work wonders is when used in old school inboard boat V8's that are rarely used and parked up for long periods as often the rings stick and you end up with low compression on a few cyls. I have seen Wynns or Fortron flush unstick rings and bring compression back a few times.

Yellow_Festiva · 26-12-2010, 10:36 AM

My Festiva got a bottle of flush added to the engine as per the instructions prior to every change.

I would generally use Nulon, or Wynns.

In 10 years and 205,000km it never leaked a drop, still had pretty clean oil at 6-7,000km into each change (done every 10k) and looking into the oil filler after 10 years still looked exactly the same as when she was new. Clean metal with a slight honey tinge.

Economy was exactly the same, engine performance and response was just as it left the factory. I honestly believed the engine would have gone forever.

Not saying if it was the flush, but I think at $4-8 a bottle every 6 months it was money very well spent IMO.

Any car I own gets the same treatment.

**ebxr8240** · 26-12-2010, 11:20 AM

If a ya don't change the oil for long periods.. NO flush is going to fix the problem... Other than a newer better looked after engine...
Why is it people DON'T care until things start sounding bad then seem to care heaps and say they have NO money to repair ???
If an engine is neglected like said... There's NOTHING that will fix it... Other than another engine or another poor car to be abused ...
Sorry ... But it's the way it is...
Instead of new oil pump etc.. Another good low klr engine would have been a better option, possibly cheaper too .. The wreckers can't sell these engines...
Assuming it's a Falcon 6 cyl...
Although you said timing BELT...

Franco Cozzo · 26-12-2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

If a ya don't change the oil for long periods.. NO flush is going to fix the problem... Other than a newer better looked after engine...
Why is it people DON'T care until things start sounding bad then seem to care heaps and say they have NO money to repair ???
If an engine is neglected like said... There's NOTHING that will fix it... Other than another engine or another poor car to be abused ...
Sorry ... But it's the way it is...
Instead of new oil pump etc.. Another good low klr engine would have been a better option, possibly cheaper too .. The wreckers can't sell these engines...
Assuming it's a Falcon 6 cyl...
Although you said timing BELT...

Yeah its a BJII-J48 Mazda 323, we don't really care about fixing it but just as long as it keeps driving then thats all that matters. We took it to get fixed because at that stage it was getting really bad, would barely move through 3rd 4th and 5th gears, probably took about 20 seconds to get to 100 under full throttle. Its not that we have no money for these things, its just that Dad doesn't care, car gets him from A to B, just put fuel in the thing and replace the tyres and thats it. Its a learning experience for me trying to keep this thing alive.

I have a photo of inside the oil cap on the rocker cover:

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/3281/imag0268l.jpg

I was going to do another service on it today, but then I realised that I forgot to buy the sump bolt washers.... oops. I checked the oil anyways, its burnt through to half way under the L mark on the dip stick, its not as bad as the last few times so I just topped it up until I get the washers, then I'll do everything.

XB GS 351 Coupe · 26-12-2010, 12:34 PM

Wlll he should care, but each to their own, oil should be changed regularly, I do mine every 5000km generally and always have.

That photo is a shocker, I would use nylon engine flush as per instructions, and change the oil about every 500km for the next few thousand km flushing with Nulon very time.

Use an oil recommended for worn engines, can be a cheap oil as it will not be in the engine long enough to wear out, you will basically be using the clean oil to flush the engine, obviously change the oil filter each time as well.

Looking at this I would assume new plugs leads and air filter will be needed and the cars acceleration will probably return.

Instead of letting your dad look after the servicing of the car you do it yourself, learn how to change oil, do not bother getting a mechanic to do it, and the cost will be minimal and you will learn something along the way.

After a few thousand kays of this the engine should look a lot better, then change to a reasonable quality oil (Penrite, Castrol, Nulon) for worn engines and change and flush every 4-6000km. Your engine will thank you greatly, and may be your old man will learn something out of this as well, could be a family project.

Good luck with it.

Franco Cozzo · 26-12-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Wlll he should care, but each to their own, oil should be changed regularly, I do mine every 5000km generally and always have.

That photo is a shocker, I would use nylon engine flush as per instructions, and change the oil about every 500km for the next few thousand km flushing with Nulon very time.

Use an oil recommended for worn engines, can be a cheap oil as it will not be in the engine long enough to wear out, you will basically be using the clean oil to flush the engine, obviously change the oil filter each time as well.

Looking at this I would assume new plugs leads and air filter will be needed and the cars acceleration will probably return.

Instead of letting your dad look after the servicing of the car you do it yourself, learn how to change oil, do not bother getting a mechanic to do it, and the cost will be minimal and you will learn something along the way.

After a few thousand kays of this the engine should look a lot better, then change to a reasonable quality oil (Penrite, Castrol, Nulon) for worn engines and change and flush every 4-6000km. Your engine will thank you greatly, and may be your old man will learn something out of this as well, could be a family project.

Good luck with it.

Thats what I've been doing, I did the service on it last time, I drained the oil, took off the old filter, put on a new filter, in with some cheap flushing oil with oil flush additive, then drained it and changed the filter again, in with new oil and I replaced the oil filter. This time around I'm going to do spark plugs.

I don't think it needs leads as it has coil packs. I would change the oil every 500km, but that would be less than a weeks worth of driving for us, would get quite expensive.

Would I have to take the rocker cover off to clean all that inside there?

**GasoLane** · 26-12-2010, 02:50 PM

Looking at that pic it just looks like sludge not burnt on oil.

Have you been using the same brand for the last few changes? If so change brands.

A few years ago I worked for a Diesel mechanic who specialised in Detroit Diesels. Looking at some of the stripped down engines there was always one brand of oil (Think Larry Perkins sponser a few years ago) that caused a huge amount of sludge in the engines, whereas other oils were fine.

And don't forget it's only a little 323. I'd say that 260,000k's is good going.

**ebxr8240** · 26-12-2010, 04:19 PM

YEP The big C is well known for carbon build up issues...

Franco Cozzo · 26-12-2010, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Looking at that pic it just looks like sludge not burnt on oil.

Have you been using the same brand for the last few changes? If so change brands.

A few years ago I worked for a Diesel mechanic who specialised in Detroit Diesels. Looking at some of the stripped down engines there was always one brand of oil (Think Larry Perkins sponser a few years ago) that caused a huge amount of sludge in the engines, whereas other oils were fine.

And don't forget it's only a little 323. I'd say that 260,000k's is good going.

Last time I used Penrite HPR 10W-50 semi synthetic, this time I'm using Nulon 15W-50 full synthetic. Got some Shell Helix HX3 for a flushing oil.

CAMS290 · 26-12-2010, 06:12 PM

used this stuff and it works well
http://www.costeffective.com.au/flus...oncentrate.php

Franco Cozzo · 26-12-2010, 10:47 PM

Interesting, a lot of "old schoolers" say a cup of Kerro is the way to go? My old workshop manager said it tended to work best out of all.

**GasoLane** · 26-12-2010, 11:15 PM

Don't forget that the 'Seafoam' and Kero you mentioned are supposedly carbon removers. IE to get rid of carbon build up on pistons, valves etc, and is used through the inlet system.

Flushing works on the internal bits that splash around in the slippery stuff.

If you do the Kero thing and it gets rid of the sludge inside the rocker cover there's something seriously wrong somewhere

**SSD-85** · 26-12-2010, 11:24 PM

Slightly off topic here, but im having a similiar issue. Ive got bad engine run-on caused by carbon build up on the pistons. Whats the best way to remove it without pulling the heads off?

**GasoLane** · 26-12-2010, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty85

Slightly off topic here, but im having a similiar issue. Ive got bad engine run-on caused by carbon build up on the pistons. Whats the best way to remove it without pulling the heads off?

Carbon or timing?

**SSD-85** · 26-12-2010, 11:39 PM

I could recheck timing, as it is blowing back through the carb when it finally shuts itself off. But it fires cylinders at random during run-on whilst sounding fine during "normal" operation. Plus the old oil being insanely dirty points to the possibility.

**ebxr8240** · 26-12-2010, 11:53 PM

Some 2 stroke to soften up carbon then some water injection ...
http://www.coolingmist.com/

A second hand washer bottle with a spray nozzle down stream from throttle body...
Does the trick...
Check PCV is clean or fit oil separator if its sucking oil into inlet ? ...
Check idle ?? If too high ...It promotes run on ...
Check timing ?? Too much timing promotes detonation, blow-by and carbon build up...

pottery beige · 26-12-2010, 11:59 PM

1/2 cup kero stuffs mozzies up....

VioletGT · 27-12-2010, 12:01 AM

Look at your timing and adjust your idle to suit. I found with my car which is a bit grumpy has to idle a tad higher so i have to turn it off in drive.

**SSD-85** · 27-12-2010, 12:19 AM

Thanks fellas, ill stop my discussion here as i dont want to hijack the thread. Ill let you know of the outcomes on my projects thread.