Vicroads: Creating congestion to save lives

[T_Terror]

Well theyve officially lost their minds.

Reading in the Herald Sun today, the outgoing Vicroads chairman had made a conference where he had admitted that Vicroads had been focusing on the "speed kills" policy to the extent, that they had PURPOSELY ENGINEERED TRAFFIC CONGESTION so that traffic speed would be kept lower in the attempt to lower road deaths!!!

"Well you can either have more deaths on the road and have a faster traffic flow or you can have congestion and less people dying and obviously we chose the latter."

He went on to descrive Vicroads operations as "disgraceful".



Has the world gone insane? Who put these retards in a position of responsibility?
Why the hell is did they just implement a Fast Rail project (that failed abysmally i might add) if speed is such a tyrant in their eyes???

[Smoked]

Congestion will probably lead to more deaths though, not to mention enviromentally not friendly.

[TEaaron]

I hate vic roads so much.

[Kryton]

yep, more accidents happen at lower speeds. although maybe not so many people will die, insurance premiums will go up.

[Outbackjack]

I hate MLB with a passion. But I love country Vic. Just spent a couple of nights in Yea. Beautiful, cold, but beautiful.

[ltd]

Do these self gratifying bastards even consider that congestion is the fundamental cause of rage, frustration and anger? Don't they realise that people take stupid risks on the road to try and get ahead of congestion?

Quite frankly, it is political BS that is just too hard to swallow.
They don't have the money nor the foresight to actually fix the problem, so they just tell everyone they meant it. Man I hate politicians.
Reminds me of the proverbial kid showing off on his bike, falls and just as everyone is about to laugh he says; "I meant to do that".
Worst part is this tosser probably travelled the world on the taxpayers dime in order to witness other practices in other countries, only to find no solutions.
And people hate lawyers.........Man alive, what a bunch of useless bastards.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by T_Terror

Well theyve officially lost their minds.

Reading in the Herald Sun today, the outgoing Vicroads chairman had made a conference where he had admitted that Vicroads had been focusing on the "speed kills" policy to the extent, that they had PURPOSELY ENGINEERED TRAFFIC CONGESTION so that traffic speed would be kept lower in the attempt to lower road deaths!!!

"Well you can either have more deaths on the road and have a faster traffic flow or you can have congestion and less people dying and obviously we chose the latter."

He went on to descrive Vicroads operations as "disgraceful".



Has the world gone insane? Who put these retards in a position of responsibility?
Why the hell is did they just implement a Fast Rail project (that failed abysmally i might add) if speed is such a tyrant in their eyes???

I am surprised this made it to press, but yes - I have for some time now tried to have Vic Roads adopt the NSW motorway/freeway keep-left text, where we ask you to use the left lane if it is clear always, as opposed to the middle. The NSW RUH text would be slightly modded to take into acount he right lane E Tag lanes. So advocated year in year out on my part to combat what I consider (in Melbourne) to be the western worlds worse driving behaviour for a right hand drive jurisdiction, in relation to motorway lane discipline.

Any form of improvement in this driver behavioural area is resisted, including the lane start layout markings being standardised.

It is true that some speed managers or employees oppose the keep left rule and simply don't try to improve things in driver education (the initial driver manuals) to further that ideal.

[Kryton]

i havent read the actual written document (only what the first post stated) but where does it mention that not keeping left is the governments form of planned congestion?

[ltd]

Originally Posted by davway

i havent read the actual written document (only what the first post stated) but where does it mention that not keeping left is the governments form of planned congestion?

yeah that was pretty out of left field (pardon the pun).

[xe351]

Originally Posted by ltd

Do these self gratifying bastards even consider that congestion is the fundamental cause of rage, frustration and anger? Don't they realise that people take stupid risks on the road to try and get ahead of congestion?

Quite frankly, it is political BS that is just too hard to swallow.
They don't have the money nor the foresight to actually fix the problem, so they just tell everyone they meant it. Man I hate politicians.
Reminds me of the proverbial kid showing off on his bike, falls and just as everyone is about to laugh he says; "I meant to do that".
Worst part is this tosser probably travelled the world on the taxpayers dime in order to witness other practices in other countries, only to find no solutions.
And people hate lawyers.........Man alive, what a bunch of useless bastards.

i completely agree. I think sensible drivers will take more stupid risks with this sort of congestion. Yes morons make the rules.....

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by ltd

yeah that was pretty out of left field (pardon the pun).

I think you have to read between the lines here. I think he's saying that VicRoads is deliberately using the lack of lane discipline to slow things down. Sheep straying all over the road so to speak.

[paulvdb]

Not being a Victorian I can't name the road - one of the city link routes west of the city. Goes from 90 to 80 to 60 in the afternoon - all in freeway conditions. You get to the 60 zone (eventually because you get stuck in the traffic jam caused by 60 zone 10km ahead), and there's nothing there! The 60 zone is completely artificial! It has no relationship to weather, road conditions, roadworks, houses, entering/exiting lanes - nuffink!. It's quite clear that the traffic jam is artificial and as a NSW driver I sit there and ask "WTF???"

[Silver Ghia]

Now it all makes sense when thinking about the totally inappropriate variable speed limits that they set on the Western Ring Road.

As I said in a previous thread, the speed limits they set actually caused congestion. I know, because a couple of times the variable speed limit light system wasnt working, everyone was doing 100 kph, and there was no congestion whatsoever AND it was completely safe. And this wasn't during holiday or non-peak times.

Obviously these people go by train to work, sit in their ivory towers during the day and wouldnt have a clue what their policies are doing, or not doing. These people should get out in the real world and try to understand what is really the best way around the situation, or they should get another job.

When I say the best way around the situation, I mean improve lane designs to make them more free running, to avoid drivers having to change lanes when merging etc. The Calder Hwy between Melton Hwy turnoff and Calder Park is a prime example also of incompetency within VicRoads. As it is now it is a complete shambles with that 80 kmph limit (lowered from 100) over some 6 or so kms. I have already seen accidents since this was changed recently. And Vicroads say it is in the interests of safety!!!

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Obviously these people go by train to work, sit in their ivory towers during the day and wouldnt have a clue what their policies are doing, or not doing. These people should get out in the real world and try to understand what is really the best way around the situation, or they should get another job.

They're the same people who brought in another earth shattering Victorian first - the mandatory wearing of lifejackets at all times in boats, even when you're asleep, in the shower, or trapped below decks trying to swim down to get out of a sinking boat. There are many good things about Victoria but where the f... do you get your public servants? From Canberra?

[ltd]

Tell me, these varying speed limits wouldn't have anything to do with fixed speed cameras would it? It's certainly one way of ensuring an income stream.
Shifting the goalposts happens all the time in local and state government.
Just a further complication of %*&@face-itis!

[T_Terror]

The unfortunate thing is that public servants like vicroads employees arent voted in by any democratic means which means that short of a public outcry, they arent accountable for their actions (to any real extent anyway).

[Silver Ghia]

There are speed cameras along the variable speed limits over the Westgate bridge, and along Western Ring road. I do know with the Westgate bridge if entering from Todd road, you can be over the top of the bridge, and past a set of cameras, before you realise its set at 60kmph instead of the usual 80 kmph. There is little opportunity to notice the variable limit signs while trying to avoid surrounding traffic (and accidents), since these signs are so inappropriately positioned. (but appropriate for maximum revenue)

I cannot confirm however if they are linked to the varying limits, or just set at the highest limit. Can anyone confirm?

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by T_Terror

The unfortunate thing is that public servants like vicroads employees arent voted in by any democratic means which means that short of a public outcry, they arent accountable for their actions (to any real extent anyway).

Perhaps then the responsible government minister should wear it then. But then it will be like water off a ducks back. A no-win situation.

[LeMans]

Let me guess that a report is about to be published that the Government’s policies are causing traffic congestion. In an election year, this would be a disaster. So in come the spin doctors who closely analyze the situation and fabricate a story that will guzump the negative media hype before this report can be released. Immediately, the Government announces that traffic congestion is deliberate so that it can save lives, and if you disagree with their policies then you are an irresponsible baby killer. Now try arguing against this report.

Incidentally, it is well known that an increase in congestion has a direct effect on respiratory diseases and consequent deaths. This argument has been used for decades to justify the existence of freeways. This expected increase in deaths can be calculated with a reasonable accuracy and is accepted within the scientific community as being credible. I wonder where these government figures are accounted in their congestion policy.

[T_Terror]

Originally Posted by LeMans

Let me guess that a report is about to be published that the Government’s policies are causing traffic congestion. In an election year, this would be a disaster. So in come the spin doctors who closely analyze the situation and fabricate a story that will guzump the negative media hype before this report can be released. Immediately, the Government announces that traffic congestion is deliberate so that it can save lives, and if you disagree with their policies then you are an irresponsible baby killer.

THats a interesting theory, could very well be the case here, i cant see the government critisizing themselves for nothing...

Spot on about arguing with government policies. Since theyre all protected under pretense of safety, anyone who stands up is shot down as a baby killer, a "bloody idiot" or worse yet, a hoon....

[Jeeepers]

Originally Posted by paulvdb

Not being a Victorian I can't name the road - one of the city link routes west of the city. Goes from 90 to 80 to 60 in the afternoon - all in freeway conditions. You get to the 60 zone (eventually because you get stuck in the traffic jam caused by 60 zone 10km ahead), and there's nothing there! The 60 zone is completely artificial! It has no relationship to weather, road conditions, roadworks, houses, entering/exiting lanes - nuffink!. It's quite clear that the traffic jam is artificial and as a NSW driver I sit there and ask "WTF???"

That would be the Western Ring Road.. Variable speed limit on a time basis...

[Fab]

Don't get me started on VICRoads!
I got my Personalised plates stolen last week so i enquired about getting them replaced.
They told me it will cost me $99 to replace 'em which is fair enough i suppose, then they say that it will cost me another $93 to put them back on my car 'cause i've re-registered 'em on the same car. :

[Rastus]

Originally Posted by redfin

That would be the Western Ring Road.. Variable speed limit on a time basis...

Yep, definitely the Ring Road. Poor, isn't it!
Very early morning, and these variable signs are saying 90? or 80? WTF! Hardly anyone around.
If listening to the radio around knock off time, you always here that it's backed up around the Western Highway, Furlong Road. Backed up coz Vicroads drop the outbound limit there. Amazing how before that point the traffic can flow at 100 in reasonable safety eh! One pr!ck hits his brakes to slow up, be it for these signs or to look at someone on the side of the road, and the effects are being felt 1/2 hour later.
I'm just glad I'm always going in the opposite direction at that time. Even so, they drop the limit on the inbound side at times also.
Ever wondered while tooling along a 110kmh freeway at 60kmh in a road works area at 5AM in the morning, no cars or workmen around, why this variable stuff can't be used there?
VicRoads is poor in my opinion, be it waiting in their offices for something, or what they manage.
I find it amazing how speed advisary gantrys can stop working, or Black Ice warning lights can pack up, but they will not be fixed. If they had a speed camera hooked up to em, they wouldn't be broken for long....too much revenue to lose. So much for safety.
Must be an election coming, with all the VicGov brag signs I see at roadwork sites everyday.

[pauljh74]

There's a bunch of reduced speed limits out my way in Dandenong due to construction of Eastlink. A 3 lane each way road is cut to 60km/h permanently because of roadworks not actually on the road itself, but the area around it. No matter which of the 3 main arterial roads nearby I take, I have to go through these. The Monash Freeway has a speed limit reduction at the bottom of a hill 1km from the nearest road works, before an exit. People are largely ignoring the speed limits and going through at similar speeds as before. The Princes Hwy/Heatherton road intersection is the pits. There's 2 traffic lights about 100 metres apart - they're set for the old 80km/h limit. If you hit the yellow at the first set of lights, and go through at the 60 km/h limit, you won't get through the next lights before they go red.

On top of that, they put a kink in the city bound lanes of the Princes Hwy as they had to make some adjustments to accomodate the large support pillars for the overpass. The lanes have been shifted across and the lines repainted. The old lines appear to be painted over with black paint of some sort, so in the afternoon, the new lines are less visible than the old lines as the reflective properties of the line paint appear to shine through from under the black paint. The result is instead of following the kink, many cars straight line it as they follow the old lines and move 1 lane left. They start in the middle lane and end up in the left lane and wonder why they get honked at. I've been honked at for following the new lines just after another car has come close to hitting me. If I got $10 for everytime I saw drivers straight line like this, I wouldn't need to work. I now either take the left lane or the right lane. If I take the middle lane I could get sandwiched, if I take the left I have to watch any cars in the lane next to me. The right lane is safest, as the kink goes to the right and you just follow it.

[Laminge]

Keepleft

What can we do to ensure Mexico adopts the keep left legislation?

[pauljh74]

The reason why alot of drivers stay in the middle lane is that if you saw how many people here are unable to smoothly merge onto the freeway at 80km/h+, you'd see why we stay in the middle lanes. If you sat in the left lane you'd need to hit the brakes every time you came up to an onramp. I see it constantly - car hits 60km/h-70km/h half way along the onramp, then stays at that speed. Then they merge, causing cars to hit the brakes to wipe off 40km/h, then the merging car accelerates slowly to 100km/h. Next onramp, repeat process. It's hard enough keeping the slowpokes from clogging up the right lane.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by pauljh74

The reason why alot of drivers stay in the middle lane is that if you saw how many people here are unable to smoothly merge onto the freeway at 80km/h+, you'd see why we stay in the middle lanes. If you sat in the left lane you'd need to hit the brakes every time you came up to an onramp. I see it constantly - car hits 60km/h-70km/h half way along the onramp, then stays at that speed. Then they merge, causing cars to hit the brakes to wipe off 40km/h, then the merging car accelerates slowly to 100km/h. Next onramp, repeat process. It's hard enough keeping the slowpokes from clogging up the right lane.

This seems to also be part of the Vicroads mentality.

Refer to a post of mine on another thread:

I think I know the real problem why drivers want to stay in the RH lanes, at least here in Victoria.

It is the way "traffic engineers" design the entrances and exits to freeways, where anyone entering has to merge with traffic before they can get up to the speed of this traffic. This is because the run-up and exiting lanes are far too short. Therefore anyone in the LH lanes have to keep braking for these cars joining/exiting. Why not just stay in the RH lane and not be disrupted by these cars?

In England, the motorways are much better designed to actually promote driving in the LH lane. This is done by making the LH lanes continuous, so that entering traffic does not have to change lanes when entering. Traffic travelling in the LH lane can continue without having to worry about traffic merging into their lanes, and when safe, they actually merge left into the new LH lane. It is the RH lanes that end, merging into the next lane. Therefore you cannot stay in the RH lane endlessly.

Have a look next time, here in Vic, the LH lanes end, and its so frustrating having to change lanes all the time when travelling in the LH lane. Hence most like to travel in the RH lane.

Personally I think the "traffic engineers" here need to be sent overseas to see how it should be done. This also includes roundabout traffic management (another issue).

[Zephyr]

It's ironic that Vicroads no nothing about Victorian Roads...

That's why they are terrible to drive on!

[XRchic]

I find it ironic that they (Vic govt) would spend the entire GDP of a small nation buiding such a massive network of highways and freeways with heaps of overpasses and bridges etc, which is designed to speed up travelling, reduce congestion and get people to their destinations faster.... and then coming up with strategies to slow those people down on the said highways by just posting lower, ridiculous speed limits, to increase congestion and.... save lives?

Are they admitting that the money they invested in that entire network was now wasted and that the entire system is causing road fatalities??? Perhaps I was mistaken in my belief that the whole road system over there was designed to REDUCE congestion... my bad!

*XRchic sniffs and smells the nasty stink of revenue raising justified by contradictory and flawed road safety policies native only to Victoria*

[jimmy_c]

These ******* are frustrating and need to go.

Vic roads and the stupid bracks govt. Im never going to victoria