Pod Filters v Intercoolers.

SDKC · 06-05-2007, 11:40 PM

Now that I have asked a question of the forum, I thought I would pass on this little gem of information.

I spoke with an EPA tester last week and asked him about pod filters as it was a question posed to me when I first arrived here.

This is the guts of the answer.

If you have a Pod Filter - fine.

If you have an intercooler - fine.

If you have a pod filter and an intercooler - not fine, the EPA want to see the car.

Just food for thought.

Walkinshaw · 06-05-2007, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDKC

Now that I have asked a question of the forum, I thought I would pass on this little gem of information.

I spoke with an EPA tester last week and asked him about pod filters as it was a question posed to me when I first arrived here.

This is the guts of the answer.

If you have a Pod Filter - fine.

If you have an intercooler - fine.

If you have a pod filter and an intercooler - not fine, the EPA want to see the car.

Just food for thought.

If you run an intercooler on a N/A car, EPA should sterilize you.

Forced induction on a factory N/A car - not fine

TUF.EB · 06-05-2007, 11:57 PM

You can have/run 1 aftermarket induction mod, so either a pod or a intercooler is fine.

Cant have both.

But there is more specifics involed I think, such as mounting of the cooler, and bare open pod, or in box, mounting of the pod.. I think, Im not to sure.

SDKC · 07-05-2007, 12:00 AM

Bearing in mind, I asked this question not knowing what a pod filter is. (I know now.)

The EPA bloke said this was the basic answer. If you have both, the EPA want to see the car. There are obviously other factors involved as with what Walkinshaw said about N/A cars.

In my limited understanding of an engine is to pose the question: why would you have an intercooler for a non-turbo?

JC · 07-05-2007, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDKC

Bearing in mind, I asked this question not knowing what a pod filter is. (I know now.)

The EPA bloke said this was the basic answer. If you have both, the EPA want to see the car. There are obviously other factors involved as with what Walkinshaw said about N/A cars.

In my limited understanding of an engine is to pose the question: why would you have an intercooler for a non-turbo?

An intercooler's job is to cool down the hot air generated when the air is compressed by forced induction. Typical air temps could be well over 100 degrees C on a forced induction car without intercooler. With an intercooler, you expect a 30 to 50% reduction in intake temps. Cooler air not only produces more power, but it helps to prevent pinging.

Now, there's nothing wrong with fitting an intercooler on an NA car - it should work in theory to reduce intake temps, but in practice, it is more likely to be heating the air rather than cooling it which would defeat the purpose of fitting it.

I think the rule of thumb is that every 10 degree drop in intake temp is worth around 1 rwkw. That obviously depends on the car, but would apply to almost anything in the under 200rwkw category.

LTDHO · 07-05-2007, 07:35 AM

Pod filter is fine on any car as long as it's enclosed. Exposed pods are not legal.

Hybrid34 · 07-05-2007, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Pod filter is fine on any car as long as it's enclosed. Exposed pods are not legal.

you say pods are legal only if in a box, so that means your going to have to make a box, I thought if you make anything modification wise, you have to have a eng. certificate for it?????

LTDHO · 07-05-2007, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hybrid34

you say pods are legal only if in a box, so that means your going to have to make a box, I thought if you make anything modification wise, you have to have a eng. certificate for it?????

Nope.

You can run a pod in the factory box or make one.

Vdouw · 07-05-2007, 12:22 PM

Thats in Vic but ... these qlders just have no idea ... i guess they (the general populas) prefer holden over ford so we can't be too mean lol

Mr_4.0 · 07-05-2007, 02:42 PM

i thought that 20 degress intake temp drop was worth 10% extra power on average.

Hybrid34 · 07-05-2007, 02:49 PM

hmm can i ask, how come these KnN podfilters are better than standard airfilters, as in with a new airfilter, you can acutally see through it, thus more air getting past it, as for a pod you can't, can someone explain the specs of a pod vs. airfilter???
ta

EFFalcon · 07-05-2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hybrid34

hmm can i ask, how come these KnN podfilters are better than standard airfilters, as in with a new airfilter, you can acutally see through it, thus more air getting past it, as for a pod you can't, can someone explain the specs of a pod vs. airfilter???
ta

Surface area

[Tonko] · 07-05-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vdouw

Thats in Vic but ... these qlders just have no idea ... i guess they (the general populas) prefer holden over ford so we can't be too mean lol

How random...

:

RIPGMH · 07-05-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

An intercooler's job is to cool down the hot air generated when the air is compressed by forced induction. Typical air temps could be well over 100 degrees C on a forced induction car without intercooler. With an intercooler, you expect a 30 to 50% reduction in intake temps. Cooler air not only produces more power, but it helps to prevent pinging.

Now, there's nothing wrong with fitting an intercooler on an NA car - it should work in theory to reduce intake temps, but in practice, it is more likely to be heating the air rather than cooling it which would defeat the purpose of fitting it.

I think the rule of thumb is that every 10 degree drop in intake temp is worth around 1 rwkw. That obviously depends on the car, but would apply to almost anything in the under 200rwkw category.

No such thing as an intercooler on single turbo/supercharged application, just to be annoying its technically an aftercooler.

Sundeep · 07-05-2007, 04:47 PM

Whoever didn't know all of that already say 'I'..

Sundeep

EFFalcon · 07-05-2007, 04:55 PM

i only put the intercooler on my car so it looks cool

snypereb · 07-05-2007, 05:33 PM

Pretty stupid one on thier own beinglegal but if you have both its illegal sounds like EPA need to get there act together they are making thmeselves look stupid.

reded · 07-05-2007, 05:45 PM

my ask a question, may seem stupid but how can you hook an intercooler to a stock I6?
or am i gertting confused here??
just a query realy...

cheers troy

Nikked · 07-05-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

No such thing as an intercooler on single turbo/supercharged application, just to be annoying its technically an aftercooler.

But, its between the turbo and inlet. Inter is a prefix meaning between, so your wrong...

LTDHO · 07-05-2007, 06:54 PM

Inter- is a prefix meaning "between" or "within".

so let's not get tied down in definitions.

Walkinshaw · 07-05-2007, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

Now, there's nothing wrong with fitting an intercooler on an NA car - it should work in theory to reduce intake temps, but in practice, it is more likely to be heating the air rather than cooling it which would defeat the purpose of fitting it.

Air into intake charge = T1
Air passing over intercooler = T1
Thermal heatsoak (intercooler temp) = T1+a
Air into intercooler = T1
Ait out of intercooler = T1 + alpha(a)
where alpha=a figure less than 1 found from Biot's number etc

so unless the Intercooler is colder than T1, or intake charge is warmer than T1, an intercooler on an N/A car is usless.

JC · 08-05-2007, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

Air into intake charge = T1
Air passing over intercooler = T1
Thermal heatsoak (intercooler temp) = T1+a
Air into intercooler = T1
Ait out of intercooler = T1 + alpha(a)
where alpha=a figure less than 1 found from Biot's number etc

so unless the Intercooler is colder than T1, or intake charge is warmer than T1, an intercooler on an N/A car is usless.

I kind of follow that. But it's really no less useless than a leather steering wheel, or alloy pedals, or 18" rims, or a spoiler/bodykit etc. ie anything that is a RICE mod. (I have all of these on my car, apart from intercooler, of course).

efgiar · 08-05-2007, 01:52 PM

i would have thought the aluminium from the intercooler would cool the air down slightly. even buy a few degrees unless there is too much heat soak and would warm the air up

LTDHO · 08-05-2007, 02:03 PM

Forced air (even on N/A) through the inlet tubing will be hotter than the dissipated air through the fins.

So the air temp into the cooler will be higher than the air coming out.

Aaron_EF8 · 08-05-2007, 04:11 PM

Then you have to remember the restriction the intercooler will make on the incoming air.

If you get a 1/2 decent CAI, the incoming air charge will be as close to ambient as it will ever get.

RIPGMH · 08-05-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikk O'lass

But, its between the turbo and inlet. Inter is a prefix meaning between, so your wrong...

In engineering terms not the definition of prefixes I am right.

Nikked · 08-05-2007, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

In engineering terms not the definition of prefixes I am right.

Yeah i can see where you coming from

JC · 09-05-2007, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

No such thing as an intercooler on single turbo/supercharged application, just to be annoying its technically an aftercooler.

Actually, technically, it's just a heat exchanger, otherwise known as a radiator, except it has air passing through it, not coolant.

RIPGMH · 09-05-2007, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

Actually, technically, it's just a heat exchanger, otherwise known as a radiator, except it has air passing through it, not coolant.

A heat exchanger is a term given to a broad range of equipment which use all sorts of different medium to remove heat (liquid,air,ice). An intercooler is a more specific term for a heat exchanger between two stages of compression. Hence single turbo/supercharged appliactions generally feature what is technically an aftercooler. For everyone reading this, yes I have just wasted 15 seconds of your life.

JC · 09-05-2007, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

A heat exchanger is a term given to a broad range of equipment which use all sorts of different medium to remove heat (liquid,air,ice). An intercooler is a more specific term for a heat exchanger between two stages of compression. Hence single turbo/supercharged appliactions generally feature what is technically an aftercooler. For everyone reading this, yes I have just wasted 15 seconds of your life.

And a kangaroo is a marsupial. Technically, a big red is a type of kangaroo, but if I see a kangaroo, I don't say "There's a Big red (technically)". I say "There's a kangaroo".

So...I'm not sure what your point is. Intercooler/aftercooler/radiator - they're all just heat exchangers. You call it aftercooler, and no-one knows what you're talking about. Everyone else says intercooler, and EVERYONE knows what is being talked about.