Skills shortage again!!!

[scoupedy]

Everytime i read that there is a skills shortage in the Engineering/ mining industrie i get very angry. I spent 5 years studing and trying to work my way through a Engineering degree parttime, and i got not one bit of help from the University to the Government, ATO and my employer.

If i worked one day a week i would loose all my astudy, then at the end of the finiacial year when i was expecting a $2k return i would get a $3.5k hecs bill when i havn't even finish my degree and only earning $32K per year.

The University didn't care that i had to work on saturdays and would set exams, the girls in the class got pushed through and helped more than the men. example: one girl got to resit an exam because she failled!!!! everyone else would have to pay again and wait six months. Five girls had easier asignments set when studing Mechanical desktop due to it being to hard for them, when at the same time i couldn't even get a extention (the only one i ever asked for).

Finally i have applied for many mining jobs and have never even had a reply, they never train anyone. I looked at over a hundred truck driving jobs and they all wanted two years experience driving the exact trucks that they use- so they are only interested in stealing workers from other companies or importing people.

In short the mining companies ,government and universities cause this problem, and just want to import labour.

University is still for the rich, mining conpanies don't give a **** about the country one bit and lecturers are only there for themselves and most wouldn't pass a basic english test, girls and international students are looked after in the Engineering departments (they need girls to look good and international students pay more) I had an international student asking me basic chemistry questions and he was in third year!!!! how did he get thier!!! without passing at least two chemistry subjects.


THEY JUST WANT TO BRING MORE MIGRAINT

[zdcol71]

Have a chat with Sarinna Russo ,I'm sure her employment agency would love to help you out.

[Jim Goose]

In short the mining companies ,government and universities cause this problem, and just want to import labour.

We are part of the "global free market".
Cheap slave labour, more profits.
(A few years ago some building firms were caught out using "slave" labour here in Australia, mostly philipino/ vietnamese migrants on work visas who were living 20 and 30 people to a donga in very 3rd world conditions and being paid peanuts)

[burnz]

their is no skill shortage...

most ppl leave their trades due to that they can earn more as a labourer.
trade wages suck in this country...

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by burnz

their is no skill shortage...

most ppl leave their trades due to that they can earn more as a labourer.
trade wages suck in this country...

Yeah i have two trade qualifications that arn't worth the paper they are written on
dO NOT STUDY/WORK IN THE OPTICAL BUSINESS UNLESS YOUR AN OPTOMETIST

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

Have a chat with Sarinna Russo ,I'm sure her employment agency would love to help you out.

yeah job agencies they were a good idea- I have been sign up for MAX employment here in cleveland and in over a year they sent me ONE job leed and that was when i was in hospital with a broken leg and on sickness benifits

[burnz]

forget max employment, ors, and others like govco setups.

try manpower, abacus, trojan and others like them.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

Everytime i read that there is a skills shortage in the Engineering/ mining industrie i get very angry. I spent 5 years studing and trying to work my way through a Engineering degree parttime, and i got not one bit of help from the University to the Government, ATO and my employer.

If i worked one day a week i would loose all my astudy, then at the end of the finiacial year when i was expecting a $2k return i would get a $3.5k hecs bill when i havn't even finish my degree and only earning $32K per year.

The University didn't care that i had to work on saturdays and would set exams, the girls in the class got pushed through and helped more than the men. example: one girl got to resit an exam because she failled!!!! everyone else would have to pay again and wait six months. Five girls had easier asignments set when studing Mechanical desktop due to it being to hard for them, when at the same time i couldn't even get a extention (the only one i ever asked for).

Finally i have applied for many mining jobs and have never even had a reply, they never train anyone. I looked at over a hundred truck driving jobs and they all wanted two years experience driving the exact trucks that they use- so they are only interested in stealing workers from other companies or importing people.

In short the mining companies ,government and universities cause this problem, and just want to import labour.

University is still for the rich, mining conpanies don't give a **** about the country one bit and lecturers are only there for themselves and most wouldn't pass a basic english test, girls and international students are looked after in the Engineering departments (they need girls to look good and international students pay more) I had an international student asking me basic chemistry questions and he was in third year!!!! how did he get thier!!! without passing at least two chemistry subjects.


THEY JUST WANT TO BRING MORE MIGRAINT

Sorry but sounds like a little sour grapes to me. If you were/are earning 32K, how did you get a HECS bill? You shouldn't have to pay anything until your wage rises above a certain point which is higher than that. Also how did you not get any Government help if you were receiving HECS assistance?

[GTpilot]

Originally Posted by burnz

their is no skill shortage...

most ppl leave their trades due to that they can earn more as a labourer.
trade wages suck in this country...

Very narrow minded view.

Thats is the problem with the curent generation of uni and TAFE graduates. They think it is their right to walk straight into high paying management positions because they have done 4yrs of classrom learning and know everything.

Fact is grasshopper - You don't know crap!

You have no practical business operations knowledge and you have no real world industry work experience, you also do not know how to deal with people. Therefore, you get put at the bottom half of the ladder. you get dis heartend with your starting wage, because it's not what you see advertised on seek for the more senior positions you believe you deserve because you think are capable of doing them. So off you go to dig holes for a living because the casual rate is better at the time.

Wake up sunshine, in 10 -15 yrs time your graduate mates will be earing triple what you are digging holes appling their trade/degree, by this time they WILL know what they are talking about, they will be in management positions or own their own company, because they got in at the bottom and stuck through the continued learning that is required.

Don't talk to me about skills shortage, talk to me about young peoples attitude to the corporate ladder and the resultant wages.

[ELGT4me]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

We are part of the "global free market".
Cheap slave labour, more profits.
(A few years ago some building firms were caught out using "slave" labour here in Australia, mostly philipino/ vietnamese migrants on work visas who were living 20 and 30 people to a donga in very 3rd world conditions and being paid peanuts)

It 's still happening, a heap of Australian boilermakers were made "redundant" on a job here in Karratha, they were FIFO Workers. Guess what they were replaced with? Imported labor from the "Asia" region, these workers are allegedly paid the same as the FIFO Workers, but are charged for the wonderful "donger" accommodation, as they are no longer FIFO Workers that saved the company airfare costs. The other racket going, is the commissions paid in their home country to the "employment service" that got them the job over here, naturally the employment service gets paid @ the Australian $ rate. One day both governments will wake up to this little "earner"

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by GTpilot

Very narrow minded view.

Thats is the problem with the curent generation of uni and TAFE graduates. They think it is their right to walk straight into high paying management positions because they have done 4yrs of classrom learning and know everything.

Fact is grasshopper - You don't know crap!

You have no practical business operations knowledge and you have no real world industry work experience, you also do not know how to deal with people. Therefore, you get put at the bottom half of the ladder. you get dis heartend with your starting wage, because it's not what you see advertised on seek for the more senior positions you believe you deserve because you think are capable of doing them. So off you go to dig holes for a living because the casual rate is better at the time.

Wake up sunshine, in 10 -15 yrs time your graduate mates will be earing triple what you are digging holes appling their trade/degree, by this time they WILL know what they are talking about, they will be in management positions or own their own company, because they got in at the bottom and stuck through the continued learning that is required.

Don't talk to me about skills shortage, talk to me about young peoples attitude to the corporate ladder and the resultant wages.

great post. rep given

story of the bad decisions ive made in life. now im going to tafe and uni (as soon as im ready) to make up for the POOR decisions i made because i wanted a quick buck straight out of school

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by dave289

Sick of this crap while they take jobs from our kids, F O. Thats wot I think about migration. migrate somewhere else. go wreck someone elses home, and to the dogooders you know where you can go.

interesting perspective on life....

im a migrant, and i fail to see how ive wrecked anyones home?
i started work the 2nd week i got here, and have worked none stop since then, i pay my taxes, and we have spent plenty setting up ourselves here.

seems to me some want jobs and stuff handed to them on a platter, without having to work for it. and when it dosnt come their way its easier to blame others, rather than look at their own short comings.

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by dave289

Sick of this crap while they take jobs from our kids, F O. Thats wot I think about migration. migrate somewhere else. go wreck someone elses home, and to the dogooders you know where you can go.

And are you Aboriginal are you?
Think you might find that at some point your family were migrants too.

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by davway

And are you Aboriginal are you?
Think you might find that at some point your family were migrants too.

if you want to be pedantic the Aboriginal people are migrants too, they are belived to have arrived in Australia 40,000 years ago(yes thats a long time ago but they too arrived and settled here) I see no problem with a sustainablr number of migrants but when they are shiped in to work cheaper than Australians it undermines the rights of our workers. this is just business making more money by cutting out Australian workers by using slave labour, I find this immoral and see a genuine need to stop this practice

[dave289]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

interesting perspective on life....

im a migrant, and i fail to see how ive wrecked anyones home?
i started work the 2nd week i got here, and have worked none stop since then, i pay my taxes, and we have spent plenty setting up ourselves here.

seems to me some want jobs and stuff handed to them on a platter, without having to work for it. and when it dosnt come their way its easier to blame others, rather than look at their own short comings.

The problem is I would have no problem if every migrant was like you but unfortunately that is not the case, they are often uneducated, have never been and speak no engli . they get there whole family on the dole, how is this good for australia, they are taught the rorts before thay get hear and deliberately take advantage of our weak system. If migration could be controlled and implemented properly that would be great, but is uncontrolled and not implemented properly. If you want to hear more about the effect of migration on our country nstg8a send me a pm and I'll give you the rundown.

[dave289]

Originally Posted by davway

And are you Aboriginal are you?
Think you might find that at some point your family were migrants too.

No I'm not aboriginal. The aborigines did not make this country the desirable place that it is, the first settlers did. They came hear and made this country what it is today ,with their way of life and values, the aussie way that we used to now that is now being burried by people who come hear and want to change our way of life. The greeks and italians came hear many years ago as migrants and also helped this country become what it is, thay worked hard, embraced aussie culture and way of life and did not try and change the very things that made this place what it is. Most modern migrants now start there own community somewhere in one of our suburbs ,have no intention of attapting to our way of life or saying hello in the street.I could go on and on but could not be bothered.

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by dave289

The problem is I would have no problem if every migrant was like you but unfortunately that is not the case, they are often uneducated, have never been and speak no engli . they get there whole family on the dole, how is this good for australia, they are taught the rorts before thay get hear and deliberately take advantage of our weak system. If migration could be controlled and implemented properly that would be great, but is uncontrolled and not implemented properly. If you want to hear more about the effect of migration on our country nstg8a send me a pm and I'll give you the rundown.

i dont like being picky, but it doesnt help your argument that migrant workers are uneducated when your posts are full of spelling and punctuation mistakes

[uranium_death]

Australia has lost its priorities.

Here's how:

At Saint Cinnamon in The Glen, there is a young Asian girl that works there. She is going to finish her accounting qualification soon, BUT she needs to secure a residency visa here. They are going through her with a fine-tooth-comb, making it as hard as possible for her to get that visa. She is contributing positively to society at the moment, and will do even better when she starts as an accountant.

On the other hand, we have boat people coming from destitute areas that offer nothing but poverty and war, and we process these people, give them free healthcare, cheap housing, free money and everything on a platter with minimal resistance.

See what I mean? I am all for immigration - my family came from Europe in the late 40s, but get the right people in. My family got NOTHING when they came here. There was no social security, there was no free healthcare or education, and they certainly were not given a house. They lived in a one-room bungalow in Fitzroy at first.

Instead, we're getting people who burn their papers who get word of Australia' over-generous welfare system and think, 'now that's a gravy train that I could eat, cow or no cow.'

Sick of it.

We wonder why there's a skill shortage...well, perhaps if we supported those that come to Australia to contribute rather than mooch off the system, we wouldn't find ourselves in such a mess.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by GTpilot

Very narrow minded view.

Thats is the problem with the curent generation of uni and TAFE graduates. They think it is their right to walk straight into high paying management positions because they have done 4yrs of classrom learning and know everything.

Fact is grasshopper - You don't know crap!

You have no practical business operations knowledge and you have no real world industry work experience, you also do not know how to deal with people. Therefore, you get put at the bottom half of the ladder. you get dis heartend with your starting wage, because it's not what you see advertised on seek for the more senior positions you believe you deserve because you think are capable of doing them. So off you go to dig holes for a living because the casual rate is better at the time.

Wake up sunshine, in 10 -15 yrs time your graduate mates will be earing triple what you are digging holes appling their trade/degree, by this time they WILL know what they are talking about, they will be in management positions or own their own company, because they got in at the bottom and stuck through the continued learning that is required.

Don't talk to me about skills shortage, talk to me about young peoples attitude to the corporate ladder and the resultant wages.

Dead right. Young people in this country (myself included) are spoilt who for too long have had it too easy. My old man had nothing compared to me at the same age, yet he had the work ethic to start at the bottom and work his way up (civil engineer - now retired). I admit it has taken me a long longer to develop anything that resembles a work ethic, simply because I take it all for granted, even though I don't intend to.

I'm still on mid-high 30s and I'm 27 in about a week. I am very happy with that because I understand that I'm still developing. There's a reason why my boss is earning squillions - because he started at the bottom himself, gained some experience and also built up a client base, then went into business for himself with what he gained.

Bill Gates didn't become a millionaire overnight...

[Dave_Obsession]

Very well said uranium_death!

[xy500]

Originally Posted by GTpilot

Very narrow minded view.

Thats is the problem with the curent generation of uni and TAFE graduates. They think it is their right to walk straight into high paying management positions because they have done 4yrs of classrom learning and know everything.

Fact is grasshopper - You don't know crap!

You have no practical business operations knowledge and you have no real world industry work experience, you also do not know how to deal with people. Therefore, you get put at the bottom half of the ladder. you get dis heartend with starting wage, because it's not what you see advertised on seek for the more senior positions you believe you deserve because you think are capable of doing them. So off you go to dig holes for a living because the casual rate is better at the time.

Wake up sunshine, in 10 -15 yrs time your graduate mates will be earing triple what you are digging holes appling their trade/degree, by this time they WILL know what they are talking about, they will be in management positions or own their own company, because they got in at the bottom and stuck through the continued learning that is required.

Don't talk to me about skills shortage, talk to me about young peoples attitude to the corporate ladder and the resultant wages.

You're swinging a bit too far the other way here mate, you sound like another bloke blaming gen y for all the country's problems.
There is a serious problem with the way recruiting works, at least in WA, at the moment. You'll find that all except the very lucky uni graduates are very willing to accept a pittance of a wage and file documents/dig holes for their first positions out of uni. It's what i am doing, it is what everyone else i know who graduated in the last 2 years is doing.
There is extremely little employers who are willing to even employ graduates on this basis, i have lost out on several positions that were advertised as graduate, for people with little or no experience and paying rock bottom, for the position to be given to someone with 2+ years experience. Why a person with over 2 years experience is still applying for graduate positions is beyond me. But it's related to the problem of the time; no businesses are willing to train at the moment. They want someone who can walk straight into the position without being told how to do it, and then pay them minimum wage. For positions that demand strong technical knowledge and ability, this attitude makes no sense.

So because of this, people who are very able to work in technical positions are left performing menial tasks in order to pay the bills. Only to be later told that this experience isn't relevant, and they want someone who has x number of years using their specific program/performing their specific rationale/applying their specific model. It's a self defeating attitude when the businesses complain that no-one is available with the skills they are wanting.

People who blame gen y for the worlds problems only exacerbate this experience, funny because gen y doesn't decide how the system works, it is the generations in management.

I don't find low wages disheartening, or the need to work hard for years to build up my credibility. But I do find your attitudes are very disheartening. No uni graduates I know are whining about pay or conditions etc. They simply want a full time job. If you look at the youth unemployment level recently you'll find that a lot of people can't get any full time job, let alone one in the area and industry they've studied hard in.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Australia has lost its priorities.

Here's how:

At Saint Cinnamon in The Glen, there is a young Asian girl that works there. She is going to finish her accounting qualification soon, BUT she needs to secure a residency visa here. They are going through her with a fine-tooth-comb, making it as hard as possible for her to get that visa. She is contributing positively to society at the moment, and will do even better when she starts as an accountant.

On the other hand, we have boat people coming from destitute areas that offer nothing but poverty and war, and we process these people, give them free healthcare, cheap housing, free money and everything on a platter with minimal resistance.

See what I mean? I am all for immigration - my family came from Europe in the late 40s, but get the right people in. My family got NOTHING when they came here. There was no social security, there was no free healthcare or education, and they certainly were not given a house. They lived in a one-room bungalow in Fitzroy at first.

Instead, we're getting people who burn their papers who get word of Australia' over-generous welfare system and think, 'now that's a gravy train that I could eat, cow or no cow.'

Sick of it.

We wonder why there's a skill shortage...well, perhaps if we supported those that come to Australia to contribute rather than mooch off the system, we wouldn't find ourselves in such a mess.

im not 100% sure on the numbers, but im sure on one of those docos about immigration it said that 'boat people' type immigrants accounted for less than 1% of the total immigrants.

[GTpilot]

Originally Posted by xy500

You're swinging a bit too far the other way here mate, you sound like another bloke blaming gen y for all the country's problems.
There is a serious problem with the way recruiting works, at least in WA, at the moment. You'll find that all except the very lucky uni graduates are very willing to accept a pittance of a wage and file documents/dig holes for their first positions out of uni. It's what i am doing, it is what everyone else i know who graduated in the last 2 years is doing.
There is extremely little employers who are willing to even employ graduates on this basis, i have lost out on several positions that were advertised as graduate, for people with little or no experience and paying rock bottom, for the position to be given to someone with 2+ years experience. Why a person with over 2 years experience is still applying for graduate positions is beyond me. But it's related to the problem of the time; no businesses are willing to train at the moment. They want someone who can walk straight into the position without being told how to do it, and then pay them minimum wage. For positions that demand strong technical knowledge and ability, this attitude makes no sense.

So because of this, people who are very able to work in technical positions are left performing menial tasks in order to pay the bills. Only to be later told that this experience isn't relevant, and they want someone who has x number of years using their specific program/performing their specific rationale/applying their specific model. It's a self defeating attitude when the businesses complain that no-one is available with the skills they are wanting.

People who blame gen y for the worlds problems only exacerbate this experience, funny because gen y doesn't decide how the system works, it is the generations in management.

I don't find low wages disheartening, or the need to work hard for years to build up my credibility. But I do find your attitudes are very disheartening. No uni graduates I know are whining about pay or conditions etc. They simply want a full time job. If you look at the youth unemployment level recently you'll find that a lot of people can't get any full time job, let alone one in the area and industry they've studied hard in.

By no means am I laying the blame soley on Generation Y.
And by NO MEANS am I talking about you here.
BUT, did you ever stop to think the reason you did not get the jobs was due to factors other than skillset?? Attude plays a BIG part in it. Now I'm not saying you have a bad attitude, the other guy may have been a better communicator and able to sell himself better. I have interviewed and recruited many people, and as a boss..IT is VERY hit and miss. Skills are also not Always what a boss is looking for. there are many other factors involved and I have hired people based on personality, skills can be taught along the way. it is no good having a team of people that are great at their job but do not get along. Nobody is happy and productivity falls.


By the time you have complete 4 yrs at UNI, IF you do not have a few years part time experience in your chose industry, IMHO, you are only interested in working for money, not passionate about your chosen career.

[JMO]

Originally Posted by xy500

They simply want a full time job. If you look at the youth unemployment level recently you'll find that a lot of people can't get any full time job, let alone one in the area and industry they've studied hard in.

I graduated at the end of last year. I'm still looking for A job...

[BPXR6T]

Things must be tougher for grads nowadays. The employer sought me out and signed me up before I'd even finished uni.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by GTpilot

By no means am I laying the blame soley on Generation Y.
And by NO MEANS am I talking about you here.
BUT, did you ever stop to think the reason you did not get the jobs was due to factors other than skillset?? Attude plays a BIG part in it. Now I'm not saying you have a bad attitude, the other guy may have been a better communicator and able to sell himself better. I have interviewed and recruited many people, and as a boss..IT is VERY hit and miss. Skills are also not Always what a boss is looking for. there are many other factors involved and I have hired people based on personality, skills can be taught along the way. it is no good having a team of people that are great at their job but do not get along. Nobody is happy and productivity falls.


By the time you have complete 4 yrs at UNI, IF you do not have a few years part time experience in your chose industry, IMHO, you are only interested in working for money, not passionate about your chosen career.

all the jobs I've been knocked back for, the reason given is that they gave the job to someone with more experience, I've had no bad feedback about my attitude from my employers or interviewers yet. But i know what you mean about the importance of attitude for a good fit in a company.

I've been looking to get as much experience in my industry as possible, unfortunately even part time work is very competitive, and I do not have time to work one job, while gaining experience with another. I need to get full time work so I can gain experience while earning enough to pay rent. Even fewer employers seem to be interested in part time employees.
I can guarantee I'm not interested in getting rich, science jobs don't pay great even at management level! If money was my main aim, I'd return to uni to finish my engineering degree I started.

[Green X]

Oh good someone else who thinks ya just do a Engineering degree and walk into a job with the Big miners. Were do you live, If you want a mining job in WA ya not going to get it living in NSW when you've got 0 experience.

The guys driving trucks on mines didn't just get a HR get a ticket and start driving Hallpacks, some may have got lucky but most would have started outside the Mining Industry getting experience on smaller machines then moved on working with contracting companys like NRW.

I worked with a guy who was driving 150T Cranes on the NWS, he had dozer tickets lots on mobile machinery time and 10 years time working on minesites, It took him 12 months to land a job with Rio Tinto

Same goes with Engineers, How long outa Uni are you what on the job Engineering experience do you have??? ya not going to walk into a job with Woodside fresh outa uni bro. Compaines like Monadelphous, AGC, HWE, UGL, Clough, CBI, KBR, FWW Ect Ect all have Billions in mining and Oil and Gas contracts.

I started my Apprenticeship aged 20 getting $12P/h I cam from a 45K a year Job, I busted my A## got it done in 3.5 years, now aged 26 i'm on between 120-160K working for contractors in mining/ Oil and Gas.

[ELGT4me]

Great reply Uranium Death. My better half is European, both her & her father had to pass stringent health & medical checks before being considered for immigration. She had to read ,write, & speak fluent English, which she found hard, because we speak Australian. The next step was her father had to have a job waiting for him, & he could not claim the "dole" for 2 years. No accommodation was provided, they had to stay with friends /relo's until they got a place of their own. No free dental or medical services were available, they got sick, they paid for a doctor & medicines. Basically you had to earn the right to migrate to Australia, & if you were no use to the country, you did not get the right to enter the country. The Snowy Mountains scheme consisted of many of these people, & many of them have done us proud. My , how times have changed.

[snappy]

There is a skills shortage but only from a employers point of view . They want the market saturated so the can get away with paying as little *** possible . Im a contractor so i like knowing there is a month or 2 wait for my skills with out that month or 2 of work on the books i would be worried about if a can stay employed .
In my trade here in melbourne anyway some immagrants are putting a spanner in the works .
There are some that completly rort there family and the system . There are some quite a few actually bring over there family/cousins etc and pay them next to nothing for there work and there will be 10 of them or so sleeping on a job site and can underquote me by 2 or 3 thousand on a job i first tried to compete but who here thats fully qualified and has been for somtime will work for $40 a day . An then i get rang up by goverment departments are you willing to put on a apprentice i say no they compalin telling me only 26 apprentices were hired in my trade in the whole of australia last year. I wonder why maybe it because we cant afford to lose money teaching some kid the trade.
And big business loves them there in and out in a couple of days making them money speeding up the job . The only thing that saves me is there not good a there job but when the do become good ill be at the que at centrelink because i no longer get called up to fix up the work .

[|||]

maybe a small point, but you got plenty of help from the government in completing your degree. check out what full fee students pay upfront & compare it to what you paid (or were lent by the government) for your degree.

you don't have to repay HELP/HECS until you earn more than $43151 last year so your tax bill had nothing to do with HECS unless you have extra income you forgot to mention.

kids today seem to think a degree is a golden ticket into their dream job. there are thousands of people with your exact degree fighting for the jobs you want. if you're determined to find work & am willing to make sacrifices in the short term you'll be fine. if you're not then you lose out to people willing to work harder than you. life isn't fair but it's not going to change any time soon.