Curse of the lemon

Chamelion · 02-05-2008, 08:24 AM

Well,

More issues with my pathetic peice of... Excuse me, I'm just starting to get annoyed with it all.

Basically, one of the issues I notified the dealer about when my car was still in statutory warranty was the leaking head gasket. He had his mechanic check it out, who proceeded to re-torque the head bolts. This was perhaps 3 months ago now.

Unfortunately I've now noticed that it's leaking a LOT worse. The engine is leaking oil from the passenger side of the engine along the head gasket and all over the side of the block. There is no mixing of oil and coolant happening as yet.

I've also noticed that my engine has a knocking sound that is getting worse. My first thought was tappet issues, perhaps due to lost oil pressure because of the head gasket leak, but I'm only guessing.

Now, I'm hoping I have some legal options in regards to having the dealer once again cover the cost of repairing it.. I know they'll be less than happy to do so.

Notes:

a) Head gasket issue was reported within warranty period after examination by an independent mechanic.
b) Head bolts were re-torqued (who the hell re-torques torque to yield bolts?)

My main concern at this point is that having LPG installed might have in some way made void any claim I would have against the dealer.

I'm honestly getting close to where I have to consider getting rid of the bucket of come tax time. But I will loose money and I will NEED to find one already on LPG as I've already claimed the rebate.

My first foray into Ford ownership is souring quite fast, unfortunately. :(

Matt.

dreadly · 02-05-2008, 04:49 PM

bro dosnt sound good hey... Firstly if you had a head gasket failure and it was under warranty... They SHOULD have replace the gasket! Who the retightens the head bolts as a cure did he have the right torque settings?/ fixture of a broken gasket?- its not fixing the problem at all!.
Secondly they will more than likely try and you over the gas conversion- But id go down there and talk to them bring all documents of finding fault whilst under warranty- independant mechanic check... And just talk to them calmly and nicely- but yet being assertive, And see what type of agreement you can come up with.... And remember always get a car checked before you buy it....and always serviced every 5k saves dramas and money in the long hawl.. Good luck but hey

Black XR · 02-05-2008, 05:37 PM

[QUOTE just talk to them calmly and nicely- but yet being assertive, [/QUOTE]

I find being a little bit aggressive works wonders for me. Know what you want done about it before you get there
Make sure you are talking to somebody who can deal with the problem
Don't let them fob you off with crap excuses
Keep a clear head and keep the converstion on topic they like to side track you to steer you away from the issue at hand
most importantly don't leave until your happy with the outcome

**Stav** · 02-05-2008, 05:42 PM

Write a letter to the general manasger by registered post outlining the problems.Get a read receipt signature. Give them 21 days to respond in writng.If they dont go to fair trading .Actually go fair trading first.

Chamelion · 02-05-2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreadly

bro dosnt sound good hey... Firstly if you had a head gasket failure and it was under warranty... They SHOULD have replace the gasket! Who the retightens the head bolts as a cure did he have the right torque settings?/ fixture of a broken gasket?- its not fixing the problem at all!.
Secondly they will more than likely try and you over the gas conversion- But id go down there and talk to them bring all documents of finding fault whilst under warranty- independant mechanic check... And just talk to them calmly and nicely- but yet being assertive, And see what type of agreement you can come up with.... And remember always get a car checked before you buy it....and always serviced every 5k saves dramas and money in the long hawl.. Good luck but hey

Cheers.. I actually did have the car checked before purchase. That mechanic is no longer employed by me to perform work on my car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

Write a letter to the general manasger by registered post outlining the problems.Get a read receipt signature. Give them 21 days to respond in writng.If they dont go to fair trading .Actually go fair trading first.

I've had to deal with them over other issues, so they know I won't simply go away. I just hate conflict, so it'll take me a bit of guts to do it.

I guess I'll send them a fax tommorow and then follow it up with a phone call on Tuesday.

I do have documentation stating that they re torqued the head bolts, so I can definitely prove that their attempt to repair it failed.

Worst case, I have to pay for it myself and then take them to small claims to recover the cost. I am extremely certain that I would walk away with a win.

Fortunately for me I have kept all documents relating to the purchase and subsequent warranty claims etc.

I just want the old (she's only 5.5 year old!) girl running well.. I really do love my AU.. Any other car and I'd have given up long ago. :(

Cheers,

Matt.

howesy · 02-05-2008, 06:41 PM

I've been down this road before over the years and What I have learnt is that if you fight the fight you give yourself stress and if you win you have the work done by the same bodgy mechanics who re-torqued it in the first place and they are going to be none too happy doing so are they going to be really attentive to their work. (sure they are)
I have learnt your better off biting the bullet and paying the 800 to have it done by a real professional and sleep peaceful knowing it was done properly and it wont let you down. then crow from the rooftops about how you got ripped by this bodgy caryard. Trust me if you make them fix it every time you drive it you will hear noises that aren't there and you will always be wondering if they did it properly.

**Stav** · 02-05-2008, 06:44 PM

A few years back I bought an ea fairmont ghia.Inside the car was very nice. However the box felt dodgey.We got an nrma report on it.We forwarded the copy to the dealer.he told us that for the cheap sales price that he could not fix it. I knew different.Having finished accounting at tafe and some law I next went to the local court and lodged a statement of liquidated claim for the repair.he had to act in 21 days and then turn up to court to defend himself.He called before it proceeded .Repaired the box and a oil leaks.
You have to stand your ground.
Good luck.

Chamelion · 02-05-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howesy

I've been down this road before over the years and What I have learnt is that if you fight the fight you give yourself stress and if you win you have the work done by the same bodgy mechanics who re-torqued it in the first place and they are going to be none too happy doing so are they going to be really attentive to their work. (sure they are)
I have learnt your better off biting the bullet and paying the 800 to have it done by a real professional and sleep peaceful knowing it was done properly and it wont let you down. then crow from the rooftops about how you got ripped by this bodgy caryard. Trust me if you make them fix it every time you drive it you will hear noises that aren't there and you will always be wondering if they did it properly.

The only saving grace in that scenario is that the sump gasket replacement they did was more than adequate. It's likely they were simply under orders from the dealership to attempt a innexpensive repair first.

I'll give it a shot anyway.. worst case scenario they either don't do it, or they do it poorly.. Either way, I've nothing to lose by trying.. The extra stress is nothing compared to the stress levels I endure anyway. :togo:

howesy · 02-05-2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chamelion

The only saving grace in that scenario is that the sump gasket replacement they did was more than adequate. It's likely they were simply under orders from the dealership to attempt a innexpensive repair first.

I'll give it a shot anyway.. worst case scenario they either don't do it, or they do it poorly.. Either way, I've nothing to lose by trying.. The extra stress is nothing compared to the stress levels I endure anyway. :togo:

Cool good luck, I just hated every time I drove it wondering if they did it properly. It took all the joy out of it and I traded it in.
I hope it works out.

EvilChief · 02-05-2008, 10:55 PM

u never ever retorque TTY headbolts, you actually weakens and stretches them, which actually has the opposite effect to what you want. should have been relaced full stop.

UU TS50 · 02-05-2008, 11:28 PM

we just had gas fitted to my missus AU2 futura n there was a leaking intake gasket still under warranty from the car yard but they tried to blame the gas that it blew the gasket the 1st time it was started on gas

: I spoke to the gas fitter n my mechanic n they both said that was crap not that i believed them so i called the motor trades association to lodge my concerns with them when i called the yard again mentioned that they said it was warrantable the car yard tried to tell me it wasnt but i wouldnt back down n in the end they paid my mechanic to fix it

:

amiers · 03-05-2008, 01:24 AM

First where did you buy the car? a major dealership or just a used car yard.
im a motor dealer and i will help if i can but it makes a difference where you bought it. trust me

Chamelion · 03-05-2008, 02:02 AM

http://www.centralcars.com.au

Read here (http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ht=happy+owner) for an idea on how the whole process as (de?) evolved.

amiers · 03-05-2008, 10:38 AM

ok. the problem was reported to them during the warranty period- no contest. how long after they did the head did you tell them it didnt work? it shouldnt matter but it is something they can fall back on. you are within your rights to have a problem fixed again if it wasnt solved during your warranty period.

the act states that the repair must be fixed fully before the dealer can have issuie with it. i.e if it was fixed and then amother head gasket blew. ring the OFT and tell them the situation, dont make an official complaint. keep all documentation.

go to the dealer and ask what,if anything he is going to do. DO NOT LOSE YOUR COOL! i can tell you people get a better response from being calm. its ok for people on the forum to say go in hard, no offence to the forum, but that just get them in stuff you mode, and do not mention that you have spoken to the OFT.

get you answer from them, if it is no, go to the OFT and they will take it from there. do not get involved in a fight with the car yard! the reason being is that since all the new laws came in it is just as easy for the yard to let it go to court and then it will cost everyone more money and drama.

on the down side for you is that if it can be proveed that you didnt follow your obligations during the warranty claim , you dont have a leg to stand on.

Chamelion · 03-05-2008, 02:12 PM

I had an independant inspection carried out on the 18/12/07 after they failed to fix a few issues after a couple of attempts. I felt it best to get a professional third parties opinion.

I notified them of the remaining issues and also added the seeping head gasket.. This notification was sent on the 1/1/2008.

They 'completed' the repairs as per http://it.pwns2b.us/ghoaty/prawned/mech.jpg that image on the 10/1/2008.

The car then went back again late feburary/early march (warranty period ended around the 12/1/2008) as the sump gasket repair had failed to fix the problem. That was the last time I had any communication with central cars.

I wasn't sure if the retorquing of head bolts had been succesful or not as the leak was slight enough that it tended to 'burn off' before making too much of a mess. As such the patch of oil on the side never seemed to change much, if at all.
However, upon checking a few days ago it's quite obvious that it's now leaking at a reasonable rate from exactly the same place I reported the problem way back on the 1/1/2008. My concern and my case is that aside from the plain fact it is still leaking, the mechanic made a mistake in re-torquing the TTY head bolts. It's common knowledge that doing this often weakens the pressure at which the head is pressed against the bottom end.
To that end, it may not have even become worse if they simply left it?

Thank you for your help

if you have any more questions or require clarity on any points, please don't hesitate to ask. I don't intend to hide anything or conceal truths.. Right from the get go I have only ever wanted what I'm entitled to under law.

I'm quite certain I followed my legal obligations to the letter, often sharing my experience with the RACQ legal department for advice, so that I didn't make any mistakes.
Peter Farley,Executive Manager, RACQ Corporate Legal was my contact and he proof read and edited a couple of my faxes.. Good chap.

Cheers

Matt.

amiers · 03-05-2008, 04:29 PM

did you notify them in writing or any form of fax? and its best if you PM me from here on. never know who reads theses forums. im a dealer and i do!!!

InfernoSR · 06-05-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amiers

go to the dealer and ask what,if anything he is going to do. DO NOT LOSE YOUR COOL! i can tell you people get a better response from being calm. its ok for people on the forum to say go in hard, no offence to the forum, but that just get them in stuff you mode

I completly agree... being hot headed doesnt get you anywhere with most people... I've dealt with alot of people who come in hot headed claiming all sorts of things... and when i've asked certain questions, they havent been able to answer to due aggression... 9 times out of 10 you'll get a more positive responce if you stay calm initially...

Chamelion · 06-05-2008, 02:27 PM

I've been through a mixture in that regard.. I was calm for the first two months and 4 attempts to have my car fixed. At that point I got the third party inspection and raised my tone a little.. When they attempted to be difficult I raised my tone further. I became firm, but not angry or disrespectful.

As it's been a while since I last spoke to them I will revert back to my calm, collection and pleasant manner.

Matt.