Pinto vs Kent

BradZ · 09-05-2010, 09:34 PM

What are the differences between the two? Pros/Cons? And to save making another thread, will an altenator of a 1600 kent fit a 2ltr pinto?

Puzzlescort · 10-05-2010, 11:36 AM

kent are a pushrod motor ranging from 1100, 1300, 1500 & 1600
pinto are OHC mainly 2ltr in Aust although there is a 1600 also

a kent alt will not fit a pinto

BradZ · 10-05-2010, 09:36 PM

**********!!!! Just spent a lot of money getting one posted here...What part of it doesnt fit? It looks roughly the same shape.

BradZ · 10-05-2010, 09:36 PM

**********!!!! Just spent a lot of money getting one posted here...What part of it doesnt fit? It looks roughly the same shape. And in your opinion, which motor is 'better'?

Jimmyd · 10-05-2010, 10:17 PM

Personal preference leans to Pinto - can pull reliable (and quite streetable) 130-150hp without too much trouble or breaking the bank, need a second morgage or a hairdrier on a Kent to get those numbers and will be no where near as reliable.

Just my opinion though, i'm sure some Kent boys will jump in with weight differnces etc.....

Cheers

James

BradZ · 12-05-2010, 01:57 PM

What part of a kent alt wont fit a pinto??

eski666 · 12-05-2010, 03:43 PM

Pinto Power all the way, as said it makes easy reliable horse power. Kent engines can make up to 110hp as well but will cost a fortune to do.

Cant remember the differences in the alternators though, I adapted a S5 RX7 alternator to mine, works a treat!!

V8falcons · 12-05-2010, 04:28 PM

2ltr pinto guys sorry but no contest there.200+hp is acheivable with a bit of cash thrown at one.

A quick upgrade is an xf falcon 55amp job,cheap engough you just have to fit some spacers in there and away you go.
You old alternator wasnt a lucas by chance was it? There are really only good for door stops.........

eski666 · 13-05-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vctxr6ute

2ltr pinto guys sorry but no contest there.200+hp is acheivable with a bit of cash thrown at one.

A quick upgrade is an xf falcon 55amp job,cheap engough you just have to fit some spacers in there and away you go.
You old alternator wasnt a lucas by chance was it? There are really only good for door stops.........

Yeah I have used an XF one too but it wasnt giving me power I needed as I was running aftermarket EFI, with the lights on at night the voltage would drop way down! Soon as I fitted the mazda one its been strong as ever!

2lt_Scort · 13-05-2010, 06:55 PM

85Amp from a 90's Magna should do the job nicely. Use a 6cyl Cortina top bracket.

Neale · 16-05-2010, 04:43 PM

depends what its going into, & what you want to achieve. They originally put the 2L into escorts because of auto gearboxes & polution gear was draining power from the standard 1600 crossflow.
Basically its going to cost alot of cash to get performance out of any motor, & if you want big hp figures you may aswell get an SR20 or something like that.

To put a pinto into a mk1 escort there is the expense of engineering, changing radiators, gearboxes, suspension, brakes crossmembers & engine mounts, etc. where if you put a basic turbo with low boost on a 1600 you can get reliable power out of a standard motor & torque goes through the roof (this will also flog a standard pinto). it fits straight in without the modifications plus you can put it on club rego!!

Saying that if you did the same to a pinto you would also good torque & power maybe more. If you already have a mk 2 with a pinto there is probably no reason to swap it for a 1600, & you will get good poer from it if you choose to spend a bit of cash on it.

If your in sydney on june 6 the small ford car club will be holding a dyno day, if your interested in seeing the differences in motors these sort of days will give you a good idea, & you can talk to everyone

BradZ · 16-05-2010, 08:32 PM

Thanks for the replies. As for the altenator, the one off a Kent 1600 is now in and working in my car. I just welded up a new bracket and its fine. Although it doesn't put out any voltage under 3k revs, and when i turn the ignition off the car stays running untill i turn the lights on. I'll work it out.

@Neale- I have no intention of swapping my pinto for a kent, mine's already been worked a fair bit so i'm happy with the power at the moment. Chasing 130hp though (:

Jimmyd · 20-05-2010, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradZ

Thanks for the replies. As for the altenator, the one off a Kent 1600 is now in and working in my car. I just welded up a new bracket and its fine. Although it doesn't put out any voltage under 3k revs, and when i turn the ignition off the car stays running untill i turn the lights on. I'll work it out.

@Neale- I have no intention of swapping my pinto for a kent, mine's already been worked a fair bit so i'm happy with the power at the moment. Chasing 130hp though (:
__________________
1976 Ford Escort 2ltr Mk2 2 Door 4sp manual w/ Pinto
-Engine-
Bored to 2.2
Crow Cams race cam
Port Polished
Racing clutch
Oversize extractors
Machined dual throat weber carb

Regulator......

Chasing 130hp @ the flywheel? Should already be there with that recipe provided the head work has been done correctly and it has been tuned properly. The std 32/36DGAV will get you in that ball park, after that you want the 38DGAS off a Capri or a even a 34ADM from a XE-XF Falcon can get you there.
If chasing 130hp @ the treads you will need to go to duel 45s to even have a chance

BradZ · 20-05-2010, 11:59 AM

I'm after 130hp at the wheels. With the current set up it is supposed to ( and has in the past) pull 113hp at the wheels. I'm not sure what you mean by twin 45's? I think the next mod will be elec ignition or something like that as mentioned by one of the members, what gains should i expect from that?

Puzzlescort · 20-05-2010, 12:22 PM

Bradz what they mean by twin 45's is twin sidedraught weber carbies - 45 is the size of the throat
I would be very surprised if you will get 130hp at the rear wheels (roughly 170bhp allowing for 30% loss thru driveline) with a single modified downthroat weber, that equates to approx 95 rwkw which is getting very quite high for a pinto. I might add it does depend on what dyno is used as dyno figures can vary greatly from dyno to dyno
A solid pinto with a good cam, big valve head, good exhaust, high compression running twin 45's etc will be in the vancity of 160-180 + bhp, of course there are motors pushing up into the 200+ bhp area but are very heavily worked on twin 48's

probably need to know more about the motor specs

picture of pinto with twin 45's added

Jimmyd · 20-05-2010, 03:38 PM

Puzzlescort is dead on the money.

Realistically 113rwhp is getting to the maximum power you can extract from a single dual throat carb - just simply can not flow enough air to produce more power. Keep in mind that if you are chasing 130rwhp with a NA 8v Pinto head that you will ultimately be sacrificing low down torque for absolute power - up around these numbers she will be a bit doughy below 2-3,000 rpm and will drive you nuts in traffic if she is a daily driver.

Don't get me wrong, it can be done but reliability and driveablilty will suffer. If you are chasing these numbers and you still want to maintain daily driver flexibility and reliablity you really need to be looking at either a 16v Sierra head conversion or forced induction - but of course that depends on your tolerence levels for driveablilty and the size of your wallet.......

Cheers

James

Puzzlescort · 20-05-2010, 04:05 PM

I should add to Jimmy's post of driveability, you want some good low down torque if your racing on dirt, if you are on a circuit track where you can maintain very high rpm then maybe sacrifice low down, we have spent plenty of time on the dyno getting the balance of power / driveablity right for driving on dirt

As I have said in other posts Bradz lets look at the rest of the package that you have, what carbies, diff ratio, gearbox etc. You might find your motor is very strong but other items are letting it down, a close ratio gearbox is like adding 30 bhp compared to the std escort box

V8falcons · 20-05-2010, 07:51 PM

I just started/tested/tuned my new 2ltr engine (I built) yesterday,it has standard bore new rings bearings, nicely well ported head,44.5 in,38.5 ex valves,661 crow cam,vernier cam wheel,double valve springs match ported/modified stock manifold,rejeted 38mmDGAS weber(for the interim),electronic ign....etc
I would be lucky to see 110hp max at the rears,I would say.
Im going to a dyno in a few weeks so I'll let you know,And will play with the cam timming
It pulls very well for it first run without a dyno tune,happy so far.It also can be driven sensibly as well
I would be looking for a nice flat tourqe curve over a big power figure.

BradZ · 24-05-2010, 02:17 PM

How much would a twin 45 setup cost me? And where should i go looking? The car is very rarely under 3k revs. The car has a short diff ratio as i dont think it would go over 120kms. If i manage to find a twin 45 setup and new manifold, i'm probably going to need fatter rear tires? It gets no grip as is.

BradZ · 24-05-2010, 05:02 PM

The edit button has vanished on me so i'll post again. I'll list the engine mods as best i can. Has been bored to 2.2 (i think), the carb has been machined, it has much larger than normal extractors, port polished, Crow Cams race cam and the whole motor itself has been rebuilt. I dont think i've missed anything. The carb on that motor is supposed to push 113hp. The car is purely for rallying so driveability isnt really an issue. So after hearing this, what sort of numbers should i be expecting with twin 45's? And what sorta price am i looking at and where from?

Puzzlescort · 24-05-2010, 05:50 PM

BradZ
what we are trying to help with is firstly
- if you havent had the car on a dyno to get the supposed numbers then GET IT on one to see for yourself before you do anything else to see what & when the power is coming in. You need the benchmark to see where you can go to & can judge what effect the modifications that you do make
secondly
we make remarks on the rest of the package, gearbox, diff ratio, suspension to see what other cheap improvements can be made to help with the overall performance of the car

many of us here, like myself have been rallying / racing for over 20 years and soon realised that the ever search of more power is useless and expensive without being able to turn corners or get the power to the ground, espically on dirt in my case. I wish these forums were around 20 years ago when I started out, it would have saved a lot of money on developement being able to tap into a world of information
hopefully we can try to steer you in the right direction to spend the right money in the right places to get the best results

for twin 45's you could pay anywhere from 650? to over $1000, then they will need to be tuned to the motor.. does your motor have a big valve head? what compression ratio is it?

V8falcons · 25-05-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradZ

How much would a twin 45 setup cost me? And where should i go looking? The car is very rarely under 3k revs. The car has a short diff ratio as i dont think it would go over 120kms. If i manage to find a twin 45 setup and new manifold, i'm probably going to need fatter rear tires? It gets no grip as is.

I have a set of dellorto 40s on a manifold with ram tubes and KN filters ,no linkages they can be had cheaply,PM me if your interested will be on ebay shortly.

BradZ · 25-05-2010, 09:46 PM

PM sent.

Puzzlescort, i dont know about the valve heads nor the compression ratio but i do know its higher than stock. Getting the car to a dyno is a lot harder than you think. With no license, no car trailer (relying on friends), no father to take you and a mother who is too scared to pull the car it makes it quite hard.

Puzzlescort · 25-05-2010, 10:15 PM

hey Bradz

no probs mate - we all started out like you. I know there is an event up at Swan hill over the long weekend, unfortunately I wont be going this year. you should jump onto yahoo groups and search / join the VCAS (Victorian Club Autocross Series) and see when & where the events are..

We are getting off topic, but, if you can make it to the Bendigo event run by Cerberus I will gladly take you for a couple of laps or if you get your car there spend some time going over it with you. I think apart from Swan hill track of course Bendigo would be the next closet

BradZ · 26-05-2010, 08:58 PM

Yeah i'm hoping to have my car done for the June meet. I need to re-wire it a bit because it isn't starting even with a charged battery. I'm also going to fill in a dent on the side behind the rear wheel from last race (whoops). I'd just really like to get a bit more power outta the old girl.

obsesscort · 05-06-2010, 11:23 PM

hey guys am new here. just for BradZ if you're after some webers check out ebay I had a quick squiz for ya but not sure what specs you need, heres a cheap example

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WEBER...Q5fAccessories

John Roberts · 16-06-2024, 07:01 PM

Don't forget the rubber timing belt merry-go-round endemic to the Pinto. Jumped in a mate's fairly high-mileage low-maintenance 4-speed TE many years ago and went roaring off down Parramatta Road
- made more exciting by a tiny hole in the downpipe near where it met the exhaust, giving off a simply marvellous noise when you tromped the loud pedal in the lower gears. Anyway, she suddenly stops dead.

After checking the non-functioning fuel gauge, I sighed and traipsed a mile round trip to the closest servo, buying funnel and using an empty oil bottle from a skip which I'd filled with super and then back to the car - she still no go. Scratching my head in the engine bay I was fortunate (?) enough to espy said broken timing belt - made possible by being only semi-covered and showing two lovely shredded ends at the uncovered bit. I presume maintenance of this would be much more of a pain in a hotted-up engine than a chain would.