Hybrids at Bathurst???

Mutley · 03-11-2008, 12:21 AM

In 1960, the Gallagher 500 (Bathurst October race) commenced with the expressed aim of improving the reliability and performance of cars manufactured and sold in Australia.

This move was brought about by the lack of reliability of many British cars (overheating), American cars (suspension and brakes), and Australian cars (lack of performance).

The XK Falcon was an excellent example of a new product released in Australia (1960) that suffered from poor suspension components and reliability.

The race quickly grew in popularity because the local motoring public could identify with, and see a direct link between the race and the improvements in their cars. This led to the Race Sunday, Sell Monday effect.

A case in point was comparing not only the quality, but the relative standing of our cars design and manufacturing on the world stage, from the XK in 1960 to the XWGTHO PH III in 1970. So now should we be racing Hybrids and allowing the teams 100lt of fuel to finish the race?

Sprint XR8 · 03-11-2008, 12:36 AM

Bad idea.It would only end in a power war between the hybrid manufcturers.

Dezza · 03-11-2008, 01:51 AM

So this is what your first thread was about?

The fact is, in race conditions, a hybrid does bugger all. They pretty much use their petrol engine for hard acceleration, and the electric one for cruising. Not much cruising happens in motor racing! On Top Gear, they had a segment where they were going flat out around a track in a Prius. They also had a BMW M3, which just had to keep up with the Prius. Long story short, the Prius used more fuel!

Also as a race fan, there is no way in hell I'd go to a hybrid race. I like big loud V8s, not ****y little engines and electric motors. I'm sure plenty of people would agree. With endurance car racing, fuel economy is a factor but it's only one key area of the race. You also have to drive fast, and for driving fast, hybrids don't cut it.

Rev28K · 03-11-2008, 07:55 AM

At Le Mans the French used to have some sort of efficency formula back in the 50's or 60's. It all got a bit political - Lotus were in with a chance of doing well in some years.

The idea of a lightweight KERS has merit where the wasted braking energy is reused (with efficency losses) in acceleration out of the corners.

Don't ignore the effect of fuel efficency/burn on a race outcome, the BMW 335 was meant to have lost the 12 hour production race this year to the Mitsu Evo's beacuse of it.

GT450 · 03-11-2008, 08:23 AM

I think you will find unil after 1963 the race was at Phillip Island>
Cheers
GT450

GORDZ · 03-11-2008, 09:19 AM

i'd go see a race with those audi turbo diesels (le mans?) On the cover of TGA mag last month... drewl.

Daymoe · 03-11-2008, 09:33 AM

Get the Tesla Roadster on the track, fully electric car 0-100 in 4 seconds

smally289 · 03-11-2008, 09:33 AM

Would take 2 days to do 1000km!

Oh, and at the end of Conrod, a hybrid will automatically turn right and head for the Bathurst Bowling Club.

GORDZ · 03-11-2008, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smally351

Oh, and at the end of Conrod, a hybrid will automatically turn right and head for the Bathurst Bowling Club.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

seriously though, these 100% lithium battery powered cars have been producing some incredible figures, and the range to 'empty' is ever increasing... I wouldn't write a series off for it just yet though.

The money being poured into research and developement of batteries and electric cars is phenominal, and you'd have to think that when they do get these things in the mainstream, they're going to explore every money making avenue using them. Eg, how many non ford or holden fans now drive one or the other after being influenced by the supercar series?

It's only a matter of time really. Hybrid i doubt we'd ever see races for, because as stated, hybrid only comes into play when cruising.

sgt_doofey · 03-11-2008, 10:19 AM

It's starting already: http://www.zcars.com.au/peugeot-908-hdi-fap-hybrid/

GORDZ · 03-11-2008, 10:26 AM

thats basically the same thing as ferrari's upcoming deceleration energy storage for a small 'push to pass' boost from said stored energy, but IMO you can't really call this 'hybrid' as 95+% is still internal combustion?

Bossxr8 · 03-11-2008, 12:34 PM

Bathurst+Hybrids= Dumbest thread ever.

:

Mutley · 03-11-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smally351

Would take 2 days to do 1000km!

Oh, and at the end of Conrod, a hybrid will automatically turn right and head for the Bathurst Bowling Club.

Priceless...!

V3RSAC3 · 03-11-2008, 02:39 PM

GO TEAM EVERREADY!!!!!!!!! Woooooooo!!!

Mutley · 03-11-2008, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Bathurst+Hybrids= Dumbest thread ever.

:

My point is, apart from enthusiasts, the general motoring has lost interest in Bathurst and is losing interest in Australian cars. Even on this forum, some members question the competitiveness of the race when in reality, it is the interpretation of the rules that has a far greater influence on the result than the R & D of the main manufacturers. Sure, go on with V8 super cars but the target market is very small (albeit loyal) and ask yourself, how much from the race feeds back into useful R & D for the manufacturers for our cars. Or, what did Ford learn from Bathurst 2006 that ended up in the new falcons - they don't race 5.4lt V8's or turbo 6's for example.

Dave_au · 03-11-2008, 03:01 PM

A slightly more amusing idea would be to limit the pit stop refuels of the V8 supercars; that would make the race a whole lot more interesting - imagine Lownsie running out of fuel on the last lap!

Airmon · 03-11-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GORDZ

seriously though, these 100% lithium battery powered cars have been producing some incredible figures, and the range to 'empty' is ever increasing... I wouldn't write a series off for it just yet though.

Hybrids are coming along, but the problem at the moment is if you wanted to race the 100% lithium cars (the 200kw Electric Evo for instance, mmmmm), they'd be doing awesome lap times, but when it came time to refueling they'd be in the pits for 3 hours waiting to be fully charged! 20 laps later another 3 hour break.

GORDZ · 03-11-2008, 03:28 PM

i was thinking hot-swappable trays of batteries, not unlike phone batteries... would weigh a bit but hey, thats why pit crews have jacks! :P could even be a quicker pitstop than liquid fuel. how do these things go in crashes though? Battery acid go everywhere?

vztrt · 03-11-2008, 03:31 PM

Well maybe it should be a hybrid v diesel car race. We'll get to see which car can go for longer. Would be a boring as hell race but interesting to see the results.

sgt_doofey · 03-11-2008, 03:56 PM

What with a diesel car winning the Le Mans series the last two years, I'm sure they would crap all over hybrids.
Try driving a modern diesel. You'd be quite surprised and how quick they can be.

vztrt · 03-11-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

What with a diesel car winning the Le Mans series the last two years, I'm sure they would crap all over hybrids.
Try driving a modern diesel. You'd be quite surprised and how quick they can be.

I mean in terms of a fuel efficiency race, the race would be boring.

Airmon · 03-11-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GORDZ

i was thinking hot-swappable trays of batteries, not unlike phone batteries... would weigh a bit but hey, thats why pit crews have jacks! :P could even be a quicker pitstop than liquid fuel. how do these things go in crashes though? Battery acid go everywhere?

True, there would be a giant clip at the back of the car where someone shoves a lever bar into and the battery pops out.

Nah there wouldnt be acid all over the track with Lithium Ion batteries, they lean more towards blowing up over anything else.

GORDZ · 03-11-2008, 05:13 PM

lol, race cars on batteries...

TEAM RADIO: Hows the car feel mate? All good?

DRIVER: I'VE ONLY GOT ONE BAR LEFT!!!!!

TadKa · 03-11-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

A slightly more amusing idea would be to limit the pit stop refuels of the V8 supercars; that would make the race a whole lot more interesting - imagine Lownsie running out of fuel on the last lap!

No.. We won't be imagining that. Go and sit in the corner.

mickbundy · 03-11-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

A slightly more amusing idea would be to limit the pit stop refuels of the V8 supercars; that would make the race a whole lot more interesting - imagine Lownsie running out of fuel on the last lap!

A even more amusing thing would be to make them use their own motor, gearbox, suspension and diffs as they did in the in the seventy's early eighties manufactured instead of build ing something that is no where near what we are buying
Shyte the only genuine part on the Commy or Falcoon V8 super car is the grill the rest is nothing to do with our production type vehicles Cheers

V3RSAC3 · 03-11-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GORDZ

lol, race cars on batteries...

TEAM RADIO: Hows the car feel mate? All good?

DRIVER: I'VE ONLY GOT ONE BAR LEFT!!!!!

ROFLMFAO

FPV+fteT3 · 03-11-2008, 06:05 PM

Quote:

and ask yourself, how much from the race feeds back into useful R & D for the manufacturers for our cars. Or, what did Ford learn from Bathurst 2006 that ended up in the new falcons - they don't race 5.4lt V8's or turbo 6's for example.

simple answer is zero the only part of a v8 supercar that is like a road car is the bodyline and lights have not seen a hollinger box in an fpv yet but ooh yea it would be good (option list "h pattern or sequential sir) :eclipsee_

Probably wouldn't let ford use the f6 motor as they want parity between cars and a six that flogged an old pushrod 8 would upset the red brigade.

Nikked · 03-11-2008, 06:10 PM

as much as we laugh at the idea, it could happen sometime.

FPV+fteT3 · 03-11-2008, 06:16 PM

they do have production car racing for factory cars it just doesn't get as much of a following as the v8's maybe the next generation will be into hybrid racing or belt sander racing the latter uses electricity check it on u tube.

chevypower · 03-11-2008, 06:45 PM

it's true, a parallel hybrid only benefits on city economy - going easy on the accelerator. On a racetrack, the setup would only benefit in torque assistance and a little bit of power. You would have to go for a serial hybrid for better economy on a racetrack, where the internal combustion engine does not put any direct power to the wheels.