Senseless....

[X000BOSS]

its very easy for us to judge them from behind a computer screen but i am still sympathetic towards them. they have suffered serious injuries - not nice.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by GORDZ

"Ms Nixon said so long as all of the car's seat belts were being used, overloading the vehicle with people was not a crime "

I think that Big Kev (Christine Nixon) needs to brush up on her knowledge of road rules, or sack her advisor.

It is not legal to shove eight people in a passenger vehicle (car) that has a seating capacity of five. That’s why it says the seating capacity on the compliance plate. If they don’t have a seatbelt that they can wear (on their own) they can be booked for it.

Originally Posted by GORDZ

....so.... if i have two people in the cabin with seatbelts on, i can take as many as i want in the back of the ute?

Simple answer, no. The law regarding this was changed a long time ago. Back in the olden days, you cloud shove as many people you like in that back of a ute as long as you didn’t exceed the load carrying capacity of the vehicle.

These days, if there’s a person in the vehicle, they are required to wear a belt.

[MAGPIE]

Would have been an interesting "cut out" with that number of people in the vehicle.

[maccamom]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

I think that Big Kev (Christine Nixon) needs to brush up on her knowledge of road rules, or sack her advisor.

It is not legal to shove eight people in a passenger vehicle (car) that has a seating capacity of five. That’s why it says the seating capacity on the compliance plate. If they don’t have a seatbelt that they can wear (on their own) they can be booked for it.

Simple answer, no. The law regarding this was changed a long time ago. Back in the olden days, you cloud shove as many people you like in that back of a ute as long as you didn’t exceed the load carrying capacity of the vehicle.

These days, if there’s a person in the vehicle, they are required to wear a belt.

Nothing wrong with her legal advisers, the law in this particular field does not relate to the compliance plate, it relates to all occupied seats having a seatbelt in use. This is different in other states. Stupid I know, but fact at the present time :

Both Police and State Government have announced it is a key change with the review of the Road Rules. Utes are a different kettle of fish as the rear area is not for occupants.

[Burnout]

The other senseless item was the Lancer was referred to as a 'sports coupe'.

[leadfoot]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

this MAY not have been any part of the problem, but the current licensing system for immigrant drivers is laughable. if you hold a license overseas, whether experienced on the road or not, you can rock up to the road authority and pass your learners, hazard perception and test in one day. if you have held a license overseas for over 3 years you can be a fully licensed driver here with very minimal experience on the roads

add to that, most people in sudan, asia etc. do not drive much at all, so do not know the dangers of driving; and (in asia at least) the speed of traffic is so slow, that carrying too many people, not wearing seatbelts and a general low appreciation of road safety is not same problem that it would be here

they do not teach people who have only seen our roads, how to drive properly. unfortunately for the immigrants coming over in their thousands, they have even less chance. our money hungry governments do not take into account differences in culture and experience, so until they do we will always get situations like these

More racist cr*p...Obviously the problem must be with the testing as these are the same that us good white folk do.
I would also like to know where you get your info on driving conditions in asian countries are like..I have lived in Bangkok and can tell you that while in peak hour traffic is slow moving - once it clears it moves somewhat faster than it does here.

[BF2XR6T]

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...5-2862,00.html

read one of the comments:
Question: How do you get 4 elephants into a mini? 2 in the front and 2 in the back. As long as they've got seatbelts, they're OK. 8 people jammed in a Lancer is an example of natural selection at work. Darwin would be pleased.

cold but kinda true..

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by leadfoot

More racist cr*p...Obviously the problem must be with the testing as these are the same that us good white folk do.

more ignorant crap . . . . bangkok and manila are 2 different places. i do not believe i mentioned bankok at all. i suggested it is too easy to get a license in australia if you have an international license. my wife is from manila so i do not see how i am being racist. you are only racist when you DON'T like the race


i put down the license testing standards, not the people who get a license too easily

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by maccamom

And further on the subject of stupidity....




Dumb drivers (family) and dumb laws - what a combination :

I thought a Falcon Sedan for example was only licenced to carry 5 passengers?

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by leadfoot

More racist cr*p...Obviously the problem must be with the testing as these are the same that us good white folk do.
I would also like to know where you get your info on driving conditions in asian countries are like..I have lived in Bangkok and can tell you that while in peak hour traffic is slow moving - once it clears it moves somewhat faster than it does here.

It may be racist, but the news bulletin mentioned that these people (sudanese) are not aware of overloading dangers. (remember there was an accident last year with people of the same race overloaded and same result) If they are unaware of the dangers and need to be educated then may I suggest they are not suitable to hold a license. If they are able to come over and pass a simple road rules test and quick driving test with vic roads instructor then by all means they may carry an australian driving permit.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

My experience is that it is easier.

a RWD will progressively loose control, allowing you the opportunity to adjust, FWD tend to appear to be infallible, but then snap you are suddenly sliding, and it is harder to bring it back in than a RWD.

Agreed. My Falcon was fairly predictable in terms of handling... my Mazda 3... it handles very very well however I get the feeling based on how it feels that once I you get it unstuck you're going to largely be a passenger in it and understeer head first into a tree. I would imagine that most FWD cars have a tendency towards doing this.

Re the overloading... I believe its not necessarily illegal to do what they did, i.e. it does not explicitly state in the legislation that its illegal. In QLD however it most certainly isn't legal (the way I read section 265 of the TORUM I take it to mean that). Its only legal in QLD if you're a cop or other emergency service worker.

If there is a loophole in the Victorian road legislation you can bet there will be an amendment bill very shortly...

[Daymoe]

I find it funny that the learners test is available in many many different languages, but what language are the road signs in?

[AndrewR_AUII]

If I remember correctly, the wording of the rule in question is that one must wear a seat belt if one is provided for that seating position....

[burnz]

must be a vic law.
in nsw a car stamped to carry 5, then five it is. ($1000.00 fine per person exeed limit)
that also includes SUV stamped 5 but with 7 seat's, look out it's gunna cost ya.

[mik]

the poor learner would`nt have known what hit her at the first bend or large steering input, all that extra weight in the car her odds were not good, unfortunatley you can`t put an old head on young shoulders.

[leadfoot]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

more ignorant crap . . . . bangkok and manila are 2 different places. i do not believe i mentioned bankok at all. i suggested it is too easy to get a license in australia if you have an international license. my wife is from manila so i do not see how i am being racist. you are only racist when you DON'T like the race


i put down the license testing standards, not the people who get a license too easily

Go back & read your own post...you said asian traffic moves slowly..and you did complain about the people who get licenses too easily.If you had a beef about testing standards you would have included ALL immigrants not specifically mentioned asians & africans.

[Unco]

Originally Posted by Daymoe

I find it funny that the learners test is available in many many different languages, but what language are the road signs in?

i'm pretty sure that the "STOP" sign and "GIVE WAY" signs, etc. in the road tests are not translated. so they need to be aware of the meaning of these to pass the tests.

you don't need to learn a whole new language to understand the meaning of just a few words.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Unco

i'm pretty sure that the "STOP" sign and "GIVE WAY" signs, etc. in the road tests are not translated. so they need to be aware of the meaning of these to pass the tests.

No translation of these two required, they are international road traffic signs held in the UN Convention on "Road Traffic, Road Signs & Signals".

Meaning their shape, colours and outside measure are the same, its just that language in relation to these two will vary, but the 'meaning' *must* be the same throughout the world.

Example, when OS you will see the word HALT used instead of STOP, but the sign otherwise looks the same, - hexagonal and red background.

In the US, you will see the words YIELD, instead of GIVE-WAY, but the sign otherwise looks the same, - triangular, and red triangle over white ground.

Australia (particularly Monash, Melbourne VIC) however like to create unique to the world road traffic signs, a good example is the 1990's designed R4-12 END SPEED-LIMIT sign *.

It contains the english word END in black, within a black circle and border (rim) over a white background, eg; "END 50" (Sign falls back to the rural default, but signals the road ahead has quality issues).

However, this sign, its colour and shape - is unique to the world, and to a NESB tourist, might represent 'speed-limit 50' or whatever limit is stated - as meaning to in fact 'cease' AS the numerals are the only thing he or she will understand about the sign).

Had the Victorian road safety 'experts' known their stuff, instead of designing at cost, a whole new unique to the world road traffic sign, they smply could have adopted the UN Convention version of same! It's catalogued as "17,(b)".

This one is similar 'in look' to the the old speed derestriction sign, EXCEPT that within the circle and diagonal sloping bars is a speed-limit that ceases, example; a 40 within the circle with diagonal bands.

Now, in UN trim/law - this sign falls back to the jurisdictions rural default - (and so in regards law - we could have adopted it), UNLIKE its sister sign, catalogued the c,17(a) - or what we call the 'speed derestriction' sign,- which ceases 'all local prohibitions imposed on moving vehicles".

NZ, Fiji, New Caledonia, Vanuatu, Solomon Islands in our region use the International road traffic signs far more than AUS. We need to move more to international road traffic signage rather than duplicating same at cost and with differing design.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by leadfoot

Go back & read your own post...you said asian traffic moves slowly..and you did complain about the people who get licenses too easily.If you had a beef about testing standards you would have included ALL immigrants not specifically mentioned asians & africans.

i mentioned the sudanese because it seemed a sudanese was involved in the particular accident. i mentioned asians and specifically phillipines because the only country other than australia i have experience in is the phillipines

did i put them down. i just stated a fact. the fact is the traffic in manila is so much busier than melbourne, there is no comparison. trucks are (or were not in 2005) not allowed on the road between 9am and 9pm. cars are only allowed out on the road depending on odds or evens number plates. a trip in manila takes probably 3 times longer at least than the equivalent distance in melbourne



and i complained about vic roads given them a license too easily - maybe you should read the whole post. there are many people who put down the particular people who you claim i have singled out for their driving, behaviour etc. i have actually given a view that supports them to some degree and puts down the government. i do not see how that is racist




i do find it a little wierd that you suggest i am racist based on those comments, but you obviously are not when you state "Australia - where everything is either forbidden or compulsory". sounds like you have something against australians

[troppo]

Originally Posted by maccamom

Nothing wrong with her legal advisers, the law in this particular field does not relate to the compliance plate, it relates to all occupied seats having a seatbelt in use. This is different in other states. Stupid I know, but fact at the present time :

If that is indeed fact, it's more than just stupid...it's negligent. A Lancer, like most sedans, has 2 seats with belts in the front and 3 in the rear, so unless those seats were occupied by more than one person, it's not possible to fit eight into a Lancer. Surely doubling up on the seating capacity is against the law somehow as neither the seats or belts were designed to contain/restrain more then one?

[Falcon Coupe]

Today's paper had an interview with the drivers sister, she has had her Learners for 12 months but never driven and does not know how, Police said alcohol and speed were also factors.

So to sum it up: Learner driver, possibly drunk with no driving experience and an overloaded car, it was an accident waiting to happen.

[GORDZ]

jesus,... re-inforced: No Sympathy. Does alcohol make teenage girls think they can drive now?

[manxman]

Well, we still let ourselves use natural attrition to keep the number of fools in check. This is just more evidence that there's no shortage of them. Pity the driver wasn't on a bike, then he wouldn't have hurt so many. You have to question the mentality of the passengers allowing themselves to be in his hands tho', and no one pulling on the handbrake........ Until drivers are tested and proven mentally fit to drive, with a default NO, & periodically re-tested often, not much will change.