Ministry of truth

[Cuey]

Wow...and I thought politicians had issues!

Flappist obvisously feels very strongly about his opinion, and I respect anyone who put's their balls on the line and passionately tells people what they believe.

How this turned into a guns thread, i'm not quite sure. But here are my thoughts...

Bottom line on the two topics of converstation

Purpose of guns = kill / injure / immobilise people, animals, buildings, vehicles

Purpose of Cars = transportation from one place to another

While there may be similarties mixed in their somewhere, I think you'll find that they are completely different. No need to put them in the same basket.

Even detailed scientific research has not uncovered the direct root of the road toll, there are many reasons why.

I think you'll find that performance cars will be around for a long time to come....bottom line on that one, Money talks. While manufacutures are still making money off them, they won't stop building them.

Relax Flappist...smile

[Tobey]

Originally Posted by Cuey

Wow...and I thought politicians had issues!

Flappist obvisously feels very strongly about his opinion, and I respect anyone who put's their balls on the line and passionately tells people what they believe.

How this turned into a guns thread, i'm not quite sure. But here are my thoughts...

Bottom line on the two topics of converstation

Purpose of guns = kill / injure / immobilise people, animals, buildings, vehicles

Purpose of Cars = transportation from one place to another

This isn't about cars in general, but about performance cars.

I think what flappist is trying to get at is how performance cars are being profiled - that is, kill / injure / immobilise people, animals, buildings, vehicles.

I think what is happening is exactly the same as guns.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Cuey

Wow...and I thought politicians had issues!

Flappist obvisously feels very strongly about his opinion, and I respect anyone who put's their balls on the line and passionately tells people what they believe.

How this turned into a guns thread, i'm not quite sure. But here are my thoughts...

Bottom line on the two topics of converstation

Purpose of guns = kill / injure / immobilise people, animals, buildings, vehicles

Purpose of Cars = transportation from one place to another

While there may be similarties mixed in their somewhere, I think you'll find that they are completely different. No need to put them in the same basket.

Even detailed scientific research has not uncovered the direct root of the road toll, there are many reasons why.

I think you'll find that performance cars will be around for a long time to come....bottom line on that one, Money talks. While manufacutures are still making money off them, they won't stop building them.

Relax Flappist...smile

Reason for guns? It was recent event that echoes the current event. It would be pointless talking about televion or CB licencing or maybe lowering the drinking age to 18 from 21 or even conscription or other socially engineered events as most here have no knowlege of them.

Cars are necessary. Please explain without any reference to emotion how PERFORMANCE cars are necessary instead of detuned Camrys?

As for the money, you are kidding aren't you. The SINGLE most manufactured and sold item in the world is WEAPONS. The previous event did not care about the hundreds of guns shops and the dozen or so Australian gun manufacturers put out of business.
Blind faith can be a good thing but it can also be not so good.

[Wise]

OK I see what you're saying

Agreed, the media is twisted to achieve a goal.

BUT

I went to america recently and the news and current affairs shows over there are shocking. I thought 2day 2nyt and ACA were badly informing people here...the versions of the shows over there are rediculous!

The investigative journalism over there is all about scaring the viewers into hating or loving something. All their reports are about "How this could kill you", "How this could harm your children" with the tones of the entire show all serious, then the last story will be the one that tops them all by "Killing you AND costing you your life savings!". Yet on the next airing of the show they will have a lighter tone about a new procedure to remove back fat and how its curing peoples back problems...

Thats the reason why news parody shows do so well over there, people are sick and tired of hearing everything is going to kill them and take their money.

Australian media is becoming more and more like the american scare tactic news reporting, but hopefully aussies won't buy into it as heavily as the yanks.

[irlewy86]

Not that "hooning" is the only issue the media is conditioning us to hate. About 4 weeks ago 60 minutes ran a report on pornography. They were "horrified" and "alarmed" about how easy it was for children to access pornography on the internet. Maybe I'm paranoid but the entire segment seemed like a sales pitch for the new ISP filtering policy

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Not that "hooning" is the only issue the media is conditioning us to hate. About 4 weeks ago 60 minutes ran a report on pornography. They were "horrified" and "alarmed" about how easy it was for children to access pornography on the internet. Maybe I'm paranoid but the entire segment seemed like a sales pitch for the new ISP filtering policy

Another waste of good money but I wont bring that up in this thread. Though their main focus at the moment does seem to be hooning.

[troppo]

Originally Posted by Cuey

Even detailed scientific research has not uncovered the direct root of the road toll, there are many reasons why.

Of course it has....speeding by hoons in performance cars is the root cause. Any number of media outlets will tell you this undisputable fact, and who are we to question...

[MotherNatureVer2]

I am a female who loves hunting and her V8 performance vehicle......... I know I am not what society calls the 'norm' for this day & age ...... but it does give me the irriates that someone would think that we dont exist ..........

[mongoloid]

Fear is becoming the most useful marketing tool. Almost anything can be promoted or sold by eliciting peoples fears. There seems to be 2 stages it goes through, a campaign of misinformation followed by taking advantage of the situation.

[troppo]

Strangely enough, the same tactics used by every Government to push an agenda since the Roman Empire. Clearly, we've come a long way in the last 2000 odd years...

[StrokedXT]

if you think that toy is going to stop kids from embracing a car culture you are an idiot.

Its a game were a ford v8 gets to crush a jap drifter the people of this forum should be embracing it

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by Cuey

Purpose of guns = kill / injure / immobilise people, animals, buildings, vehicles

Utter BS. Ever heard of target shooting?
I have been target shooting for over 30 yrs, and have never ever shot an animal etc. in my life.
You have been brainwashed by the media etc.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by jeep_by_ford

if you think that toy is going to stop kids from embracing a car culture you are an idiot.

Its a game were a ford v8 gets to crush a jap drifter the people of this forum should be embracing it

Note to self: School holidays have started.

[snappy]

Purpose of guns = kill / injure / immobilise people, animals, buildings, vehicles

Purpose of guns = kill /eat/survive/ immobilise people/ defend and most important make all men/women equal

[fiery]

Originally Posted by Cuey

How this turned into a guns thread, i'm not quite sure. But here are my thoughts...

Have to agree, when I first read the thread it was about a car ad, to which I still have not seen :

Originally Posted by Cuey

Purpose of guns = kill / injure / immobilise people, animals, buildings, vehicles

How does a gun immobilise a building? Or did you mean the people within that building? Same Q goes for the vehicle bit ..

How many have actually seen the advert to which this thread was about originally?

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well the ministry of truth has started yet another propaganda assault against us.

During the V8SC yesterday and a couple of times since I watched an ad for kids remote control cars. A cops and robbers set, NO IT WASN'T. A police car catching the "speeding car".

"Comes complete with police car in current markings and a street drift car".

It then goes on to detail how you can arrest your little brother.

This is the same method used over the years to condition young people against whatever the do gooders are pushing. We already have a generation of teenagers and 20s who pee themselves whenever they see a gun and get physically sick at the thought of hunting.
Riding or driving in the bush is up there with genocide because you might injure a lesser spotted fleebydoo. Smokers and paedophiles are often confused by some people now.

I am deeply offended by this ad that shows simulated speeding and think I should write to complain about it Anyone else?

So what you are saying is that a toy wholesaler is trying to condition young people into drifting?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by flappist

Note to self: School holidays have started.

Noted too....

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

So what you are saying is that a toy wholesaler is trying to condition young people into drifting?

No. its conditioning you to tow the line and become a brownnose to the system.

it has a drift car AND a cop car. the cop chases the drift car.

wouldnt be surprised if the cop car was geared a little higher to be a bit quicker too.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

No. its conditioning you to tow the line and become a brownnose to the system.

it has a drift car AND a cop car. the cop chases the drift car.

wouldnt be surprised if the cop car was geared a little higher to be a bit quicker too.

Read the underlined text.

[Mr Brooksy]

Getting back to the original post (as some have started doing). I was wondering if the makers of this toy had seen "Fast and Furious 3"? I bet the 'drift car' cant handbrake turn into a side alley and turn off in time for the cops to drive past oblivious to the move.

To be serious though, this type of add/toy etc isnt all that new. go back a few decades to the ol' AFX slotcar adds, ol Black and white patrol car (with lights) against a Vette or TBird.

If I remeber my childhood well enough, everyone wanted to be the Vette or Tbird, not the cop. It would be more interesting (in my mind anyway) to see which is more popular from the kids perspective. I have a sneeky suspicion that the 'robber/drifter' would be more popular.

I also just want to add, that with the thousands of young men (youths) that I work with each year, most of them still love shooting (admittedly they only shoot paintball guns/laser guns/computer game guns). But most importantly, they love their high powered cars. Only 3-4 weeks ago I was talking about what a student wanted to do once he had finished school. The first thing he said was buy a Toyota Supra. I was surprised by this as he would be the classic "conditioned kid".

So in short, all is not lost on the current generation. Oh and by the way do a little research on "Gen Y" and youll find that they have a huge distrust of authority, and 'the establishment'.

[ltd_on20s]

youngsters will always rebel. its like a subconcious mechanism that unless something is explained with proof behind it, they wont listen.

only as they get older most drift into conformity and start accept things at face value rather then ask the hard questions

say a lie a hundred times and it becomes the truth.

look how many people still believe the iraq war was about "freedom" and to defend our way of life....

[Mr Brooksy]

You mean it wasn't... and Bush isn't the best President in all US history?! Shock Gasp Horror!! hehehehe

Agreed LTD, many generations that we have statistics on are like that, and Im sure Gen Y will change aka Boomers.

I think if we dont encourage our young people to 'Question everything' then we will end up with another generation ending up in 'mid life crisis'. Similar to the past 2 or so generations in China (gov has their hands full now though with the Gen Y's hehehe).

Also... "say a lie... becomes the truth". It becomes true (to them), but not necessarily truth per se. Its all about relitivism (everything being relitive, whats true for you isnt necesserily true for me). And in this world of relitivism... the Iraq war was about freedom!! (PLEASE not sarcasm)!

[SPK-250]

Originally Posted by Mr Brooksy

I think if we dont encourage our young people to 'Question everything' then we will end up with another generation ending up in 'mid life crisis'.

I think that is the key right there to living a long and prosperous life. Do things now that might seem a little "hardcore" and then they will discover what life is really about, instead of being worried if something might be unhealthy for themselves, or the environment or whatever.

I think at the end of the day if your kid wants and or gets the slot car set and really enjoys playing with it then he/she will most likely grow up to be a cool kid.

Its, as stated earlier, Shows like Home and Agay, neighbours and ACA/TT that are were the real problem is.

Children aged between 0-12 are only really concerned about the world that revolves immediately around them and who they are going to ride bikes with after school.

It's when the youth reach the age of 12 that things like Soap operas, and teenage magazines become of interest. Hence they start to notice more who is cool in these things and what are they wearing/doing/saying?

See where i'm going?

Also people under the age of 18 should not be allowed a mobile phone. I'm 29 and never had a mobile or even the internet when i was 18, because it was far too expensive back then. But because of the cotton wool mentality of people these days nearly ever 10 yo has one(based on someone i know), so in case they get into trouble. Why the hell is a 10 yo old in a place to be getting into trouble, they should be at home playing with the slot car set.

Anyways i spoke my mind and now i have a headache.

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by SPK-250

I think that is the key right there to living a long and prosperous life. Do things now that might seem a little "hardcore" and then they will discover what life is really about, instead of being worried if something might be unhealthy for themselves, or the environment or whatever.

I think at the end of the day if your kid wants and or gets the slot car set and really enjoys playing with it then he/she will most likely grow up to be a cool kid.

Its, as stated earlier, Shows like Home and Agay, neighbours and ACA/TT that are were the real problem is.

Children aged between 0-12 are only really concerned about the world that revolves immediately around them and who they are going to ride bikes with after school.

It's when the youth reach the age of 12 that things like Soap operas, and teenage magazines become of interest. Hence they start to notice more who is cool in these things and what are they wearing/doing/saying?

See where i'm going?

Also people under the age of 18 should not be allowed a mobile phone. I'm 29 and never had a mobile or even the internet when i was 18, because it was far too expensive back then. But because of the cotton wool mentality of people these days nearly ever 10 yo has one(based on someone i know), so in case they get into trouble. Why the hell is a 10 yo old in a place to be getting into trouble, they should be at home playing with the slot car set.

Anyways i spoke my mind and now i have a headache.

I got a mobile phone 2 years ago, my mate gave me a sim card for christmas and I got Dad's old phone. Thing is, I don't use it much, someone messages me and I reply a week later because I barely look at it.

[troppo]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

only as they get older most drift into conformity and start accept things at face value rather then ask the hard questions

I don't know that I agree with that. I think it's more a case of priorities changing as we age. Once we get married, get a mortgage and have kids, other issues don't seem quite so important and most of us are reasonably happy to put up with the daily grind and ignore most things unless it directly affects us. Thus, the trick to smoothly introducing new legislation that DOES directly affect us is to spin the issue in a way that has the bulk of us thinking we WON'T be directly affected. It's the oldest trick in the book (as I said earlier, used by the Romans) and despite education levels being at an all time high for entire span of human history, we still fall for it every time. It's not limited to any particular generation either, baby boomers, gen x,y,z...we are all happy to remain blissfully ignorant on many issues so long as it doesn't affect our day to day activities too much.

PS: Hands up everyone who knows which book the thread title refers to. It used to be compulsory reading...is it still or has the education department decided it's too close to the truth?

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by troppo

I don't know that I agree with that. I think it's more a case of priorities changing as we age. Once we get married, get a mortgage and have kids, other issues don't seem quite so important and most of us are reasonably happy to put up with the daily grind and ignore most things unless it directly affects us. Thus, the trick to smoothly introducing new legislation that DOES directly affect us is to spin the issue in a way that has the bulk of us thinking we WON'T be directly affected. It's the oldest trick in the book (as I said earlier, used by the Romans) and despite education levels being at an all time high for entire span of human history, we still fall for it every time. It's not limited to any particular generation either, baby boomers, gen x,y,z...we are all happy to remain blissfully ignorant on many issues so long as it doesn't affect our day to day activities too much.

PS: Hands up everyone who knows which book the thread title refers to. It used to be compulsory reading...is it still or has the education department decided it's too close to the truth?

1984. one of the four ministries that govern oceania.

good work from flappist on that one. didnt even pick it till you said that

[troppo]

Correct. Aka the Ministry of Propoganda who specialised in convincing the majority that legislation was aimed solely at the minority in order to achieve conformity.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by mongoloid

I completely agree up until the last bit.

How many people googled Quod erat demonstrandum? Go on be honest!

Don't really have an opinion one way or another on the OP. Haven't seen the add and since I don't watch FTA, I doubt I ever will.

However, I didn't go to a particularly posh school, but I do recall having to insert QED after proving a math problem - that was 20 odd years ago though.