Petrol v Diesel, It's got closer all of a sudden

**buggerlugs** · 07-01-2009, 07:06 PM

Having 2 diesel Vehicles, I couldn't beleive the difference in the price between Petrol and Diesel for the last 18 months. Diesel has always been at least 30 cents a litre more expensive than Petrol. Until this week up here. All of a sudden Unleaded is 96 cpl and I got diesel today for $1.07 cpl. What's happened in the last week to change this ??????????

**Falcon Coupe** · 07-01-2009, 07:09 PM

Still $1.22 here, i hope this will be across the board.

http://www.racv.com.au/wps/wcm/conne...es/?CACHE=NONE

duaned · 07-01-2009, 07:11 PM

Adelaide is still $1.28 p/l. You have it lucky up there!

go_ford · 07-01-2009, 08:25 PM

$1.36 here..wow thats cheap. but isnt it about to go back up

Luke3000 · 07-01-2009, 09:05 PM

Its $1.05ish in syndey for unleaded, premium about the same price as Diesel which is $1.22ish.
Strange, but i suspect we are getting massively ripped.
Time to but some shares in shell or caltex people!
They seem to put the price up straight away and disregard lowering crude oil prices when it happens.
Robbing bastards!

old_mate · 08-01-2009, 12:35 AM

i'd drive up the coast and back to buy it for $1.07, musta been a signo (think typo)

**Luke Plaizier** · 08-01-2009, 07:33 AM

Back in the early 00's when fuel was $50 a Barrell we were paying 89c per litre at the Bowser. The exchange rate was much the same.

It's now $38 a barrell and we're paying $1.09 a Litre.

Yeah, we're being ripped.

Lukeyson

**buggerlugs** · 08-01-2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_mate

i'd drive up the coast and back to buy it for $1.07, musta been a signo (think typo)

Actually was $1.11cpl minus your 4 cent discount voucher which made it $1.07cpl. A lot better than $1.52cpl a couple of months ago........

SSVPom · 08-01-2009, 08:58 AM

Spotted 97 cents per litre for regular BP unleaded on Monday in Sandhurst this week...

daniel_rossy · 09-01-2009, 01:21 AM

here unleaded is $1.12 and i think diesel is $1.29.9

axeray · 09-01-2009, 08:15 AM

Still 20c to 30c difference here

Mr Hardware · 09-01-2009, 08:45 AM

buggerlugs and others, i'll explain it to you.
in aus, when you buy a litre of oil-based fuel (petrol or diesel, not LPG) you're paying two components - the price of the fuel and the government taxes. so the government taxes account for about 40c. The rest of the cost of the fuel is largely predicted by the price of oil per barrel. Why is diseasel more expensive than petrol? Cos there's more oil in a litre of diesel than petrol, hence why some people call diesels 'oilers'. I thought the refining process for diesel was shorter, thats why it used to be cheaper? Yes, it used to be shorter, before government mandated low-sulphur diesel. When the price of oil per barrel comes down, obviously the gap in price between petrol and diesel is going to come down, but not in a fractional sense. Ie lets set a benchmark at 40c per litre is the govt taxes. On top of that used to be a dollar for the actual petrol component, making $1.40/l for petrol. Add 30% for the extra cost of diesel, and that's $1.70 for diesel. Now, the price of oil per barrel comes down significantly, and the cost of a litre of petrol is now only 50c above the cost of the govt taxes, making 90c/litre. Add 30% for the extra cost of diesel, and we have diesel at $1.05 per litre. The gap has halved! But by no reason whatsoever but the simple change in the price of oil per barrel. It's all relative.

PS I hate diseasels.

aquahead2001 · 09-01-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

buggerlugs and others, i'll explain it to you.
in aus, when you buy a litre of oil-based fuel (petrol or diesel, not LPG) you're paying two components - the price of the fuel and the government taxes. so the government taxes account for about 40c. The rest of the cost of the fuel is largely predicted by the price of oil per barrel. Why is diseasel more expensive than petrol? Cos there's more oil in a litre of diesel than petrol, hence why some people call diesels 'oilers'. I thought the refining process for diesel was shorter, thats why it used to be cheaper? Yes, it used to be shorter, before government mandated low-sulphur diesel. When the price of oil per barrel comes down, obviously the gap in price between petrol and diesel is going to come down, but not in a fractional sense. Ie lets set a benchmark at 40c per litre is the govt taxes. On top of that used to be a dollar for the actual petrol component, making $1.40/l for petrol. Add 30% for the extra cost of diesel, and that's $1.70 for diesel. Now, the price of oil per barrel comes down significantly, and the cost of a litre of petrol is now only 50c above the cost of the govt taxes, making 90c/litre. Add 30% for the extra cost of diesel, and we have diesel at $1.05 per litre. The gap has halved! But by no reason whatsoever but the simple change in the price of oil per barrel. It's all relative.

PS I hate diseasels.

Diesel just happens to be more in demand now as most of Europe and Asia use it as not only a transport fuel in trucks and buses, but also in the VW Golfs & Audi A3s and Toyota Kijangs and Innovas. Its all supply and demand, look at what happend to the price of Iron Ore and Aluminium, with high demand, came high prices, now demand has crashed and so has the price of those commodities.

God help us diesel drivers if the bloody yanks start buying diesel cars!

Having said that, I think the price of fuel is artifically high. I'm trying to think when the Government froze Fuel Indexation, was it 1999? That's when the tax on fuel effectively froze at a set percentage. So if the price of a "barrell" of oil is now around the $50 mark, which it was back in 1999, I think, we should be seeing fuel prices close to that with an increase to cover wage, transport, capital and other things that have gone up ion the preceeding 10 years...

vztrt · 09-01-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

buggerlugs and others, i'll explain it to you.
in aus, when you buy a litre of oil-based fuel (petrol or diesel, not LPG) you're paying two components - the price of the fuel and the government taxes. so the government taxes account for about 40c. The rest of the cost of the fuel is largely predicted by the price of oil per barrel. Why is diseasel more expensive than petrol? Cos there's more oil in a litre of diesel than petrol, hence why some people call diesels 'oilers'. I thought the refining process for diesel was shorter, thats why it used to be cheaper? Yes, it used to be shorter, before government mandated low-sulphur diesel. When the price of oil per barrel comes down, obviously the gap in price between petrol and diesel is going to come down, but not in a fractional sense. Ie lets set a benchmark at 40c per litre is the govt taxes. On top of that used to be a dollar for the actual petrol component, making $1.40/l for petrol. Add 30% for the extra cost of diesel, and that's $1.70 for diesel. Now, the price of oil per barrel comes down significantly, and the cost of a litre of petrol is now only 50c above the cost of the govt taxes, making 90c/litre. Add 30% for the extra cost of diesel, and we have diesel at $1.05 per litre. The gap has halved! But by no reason whatsoever but the simple change in the price of oil per barrel. It's all relative.

PS I hate diseasels.

Nothing wrong with diesels if used in the correct application. Also they're the strongest motors out there and mixed with LPG are very cheap to run.

Also there is an extra excise on Diesel (17.5c) then there is on petrol. This was done by the hippys when the GST came in as they didn't want everyone getting diesel cars.

winkle · 09-01-2009, 10:00 AM

Here in Ballarat unleaded is 97.9 and diesel is 128.9, so still the 30c differential. I've heard it said that one of the reasons diesel is so dear is that there is little retail demand. Comments?

Mr Hardware · 09-01-2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Also there is an extra excise on Diesel (17.5c) then (sic) there is on petrol.

Are you sure?

vztrt · 09-01-2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkle

Here in Ballarat unleaded is 97.9 and diesel is 128.9, so still the 30c differential. I've heard it said that one of the reasons diesel is so dear is that there is little retail demand. Comments?

There's quite a few trucks running in Australia, also Ag equipment, generators (unless they're using natural gas), mining equipment, large ships use proper diesel when coming into port (out in the ocean they just use crude on their low speed diesel engines) and 4wd's and some personal cars. Trucks, ag equipment and mining equipment drink due to being large and pulling big loads. So there is demand there.
I know mid 2008 there was a world shortage on the stuff so it would be supply and demand playing then. But now the world is slowing down so you would think that Diesel wouldn't be in as much demand as before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Are you sure?

Yes, but there is a rebate on commercial vehicles but these vehicles must comply with certain emmission laws to qualify for the rebate. I know the rebate started at 17.5c/l but it did go up a few years back. Unfortunatly my dads prime mover (while he said it complied) had to be proven to comply to get the rebate.

Daymoe · 09-01-2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FairmontPom

Spotted 97 cents per litre for regular BP unleaded on Monday in Sandhurst this week...

I saw 99.9 cents per litre for 91 at BP in Bulla yesterday.

Mr Hardware · 09-01-2009, 10:15 AM

Well i bought E10 for 80.5cpl on wednesday
but i also bought LPG for 39.9 but hey, lets talk about the worst fuel in the world, diseasel, with its carcenogenic, pollutant spewing applications

**Falcon Coupe** · 09-01-2009, 10:17 AM

Diesel passenger car sales are up 65% in recent years, it's supply and demand.

vztrt · 09-01-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Well i bought E10 for 80.5cpl on wednesday
but i also bought LPG for 39.9 but hey, lets talk about the worst fuel in the world, diseasel, with its carcenogenic, pollutant spewing applications

Yet deisel wont kill ya if its pumped into a room!

From Tier 3 diesel is becoming cleaner then petrol. Tier 4 will be cleaner (this is why we need bio fuels). The only issue I can see with tier 4 is if the R&D to get a tier 4 engine is half assed then the life of the engine will not last as long as the old engine.

Mr Hardware · 09-01-2009, 10:41 AM

biodiesel should be alright imo. however, diesel would have to come a long way before it could be a replacement for an LPG I6. Out of all the diesels i've driven, only one has impressed me, and that's a Ford Ranger Turbo Diesel. Even with the standard LSD, i had difficulty with not lighting up the rears from takeoff. Most other diseasels would just be utter slugs off the line, but not this one. However, it refuses to run biodiesel.

**Falcon Coupe** · 09-01-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

biodiesel should be alright imo. however, diesel would have to come a long way before it could be a replacement for an LPG I6.

No one said any different, however the sulfur content of diesel fuel dropped from 500 parts per million to 50ppm in 2006.
It will fall again to 10ppm in 2009, in line with overseas standards, most notably those set by the European Union. The EU says that particle levels below 10ppm are so low they become difficult to measure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Most other diseasels would just be utter slugs off the line, but not this one. However, it refuses to run biodiesel.

You obviously have little experience with new diesels.

vztrt · 09-01-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

No one said any different, however the sulfur content of diesel fuel dropped from 500 parts per million to 50ppm in 2006.
It will fall again to 10ppm in 2009, in line with overseas standards, most notably those set by the European Union. The EU says that particle levels below 10ppm are so low they become difficult to measure.

Also if they can get the particulate levels down to practically 0 with Tier 3 engines using 50ppm, the tier 4 motors should be fine with 10ppm. Mind you to reduce the NOx levels to practically 0 you do increase the particulate levels in the emmissions but that would be why they are running cleaner diesel and would be removing it from the exhaust.

I'm just wondering what the serviceing cost will be with these Tier 4 vehicles.

sgt_doofey · 09-01-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Also if they can get the particulate levels down to practically 0 with Tier 3 engines using 50ppm, the tier 4 motors should be fine with 10ppm. Mind you to reduce the NOx levels to practically 0 you do increase the particulate levels in the emmissions but that would be why they are running cleaner diesel and would be removing it from the exhaust.

I'm just wondering what the serviceing cost will be with these Tier 4 vehicles.

If you mean the European Diesel's with particulate filters. then about on par with other cars. A major service for the 307 HDi is approx $700, but it is stretched out over 20,000kms, so it balances out over a longer period, say 45,000kms. Two services for the diesel (minor and major) vs three for the petrol engine (minor, major, minor, based on 15,000kms service intervals). Not to mention that in our particular model, the cam belt doesn't need to be done until 180,000kms, so there is another saving in servicing costs.

To Mr Hardware, you need to get out and drive the modern euro diesels such as the Golf's and Peugeots. They are so much fun to drive, especially with the bags of torque on tap from such low RPM. As for emissions, I ran my finger inside the end of the exhaust pipe in the 307 after 17,000kms. My finger came out clean. With the particulate filter as well, there is bugger all that is released in to the atmosphere. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_filter

vztrt · 09-01-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

If you mean the European Diesel's with particulate filters. then about on par with other cars. A major service for the 307 HDi is approx $700, but it is stretched out over 20,000kms, so it balances out over a longer period, say 45,000kms. Two services for the diesel (minor and major) vs three for the petrol engine (minor, major, minor, based on 15,000kms service intervals). Not to mention that in our particular model, the cam belt doesn't need to be done until 180,000kms, so there is another saving in servicing costs.

There is also some talk that the cars will run something in the exhaust (the best was to describe it would be a cat) for the NOx levels (this is for Tier 4 engines). If my mate from Merc is correct these things aren't cheap to change (mind you Mercs aren't cheap) and wont be there for the life of the car. Mind you I need to do further reaserch on this.