Throttle response with fuel injection

[FalconXV]

rolling response definately, off the line, no chance. It's surprisingly easy to get wheelspin up to 4th gear in a fEStiVA!

[Mr Hardware]

in the wet

[FalconXV]

clearly you haven't driven one (1.5 manual).

[Mr Hardware]

actually, i have. a white 98 5-door, manual air steer. i just never saw it to be a good idea to try and clutch dump it into fourth in the dry.

[FalconXV]

also wonderful handbrakers on gravel ( not on sealed roads of course)
Sorry to hijack the thread. My XF carb I had seemed more responsive than EFI which hesitates before it lunges into the horizon, come to think of it all my automatic Falcons have done that.

[Glow_Mouse]

i guess with every festiva post you'll get a lot of haters. Hey guys, it's only a car, don't knock it till you try, oh she spins quite well without the wet weather. If you know how to tune your car instead of buyin with 6 or even 8cyl's then you know that you've got more exp in engines.

6.5k Rpms into first, then spike it into 2nd at 5k rpms, you'll scream your tyres everytime and every other gear after that. I'll post some pics.

wow glow mouse, sounds great, it's just a pity that any old cabbie would hose you in the traffic light grand prix

Lol i like that, I was downtown the other night, 4 car race, a nissan silvia, sports edition lancer and a 6cly XF falcon ute and me. 1/4mile down a main street, I didnt come last that's for sure. Hey, it may be a festiva but just because you cosmo boys only worry about what a car looks like and not whats under the hood, you'd be surpised.. btw i came second...stupid ute..

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Glow_Mouse

The guy in the know for festiva bod-kits and easy how-to intakes!

Can you show me a good how-to intake for the stang? I want to spin one cheese cutter too! jokes.

On the topic, I haven't really come across any cars with a lag when you put your foot down or not a noticable one. For instant grunt however a carbed I6 or V8 is the go. Not much top end without work though.

[Glow_Mouse]

sheesh did you think of that all by yourself? and FYI i do build my own intakes, There is such a thing as self dependent.

Why spend the cash if you have all the knowlege. The only 2 models i currently create for are the honda civic hatch and the Ford Aspire. 94models and up.

oh recently adaptated some more aspiration to allow a faster response. Just made a CAI system.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Glow_Mouse

i guess with every festiva post you'll get a lot of haters. Hey guys, it's only a car, don't knock it till you try, oh she spins quite well without the wet weather. If you know how to tune your car instead of buyin with 6 or even 8cyl's then you know that you've got more exp in engines.

6.5k Rpms into first, then spike it into 2nd at 5k rpms, you'll scream your tyres everytime and every other gear after that. I'll post some pics.



Lol i like that, I was downtown the other night, 4 car race, a nissan silvia, sports edition lancer and a 6cly XF falcon ute and me. 1/4mile down a main street, I didnt come last that's for sure. Hey, it may be a festiva but just because you cosmo boys only worry about what a car looks like and not whats under the hood, you'd be surpised.. btw i came second...stupid ute..

Never thought i'd hear someone talking about dropping skids in a Festiva.

[Glow_Mouse]

well, yea... We are out there and just because it is a festiva doesnt mean it cant do anything. Time to look past that smooth shape and time to get a microscope to the engine bay.

Are you guys even listening?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Glow_Mouse

Are you guys even listening?

To be honest, no. I think you're preaching to the wrong crowd here.

I'd say 99% of us would rather have AIDS than drive a modded Festiva.

[FalconXV]

keep up the good work glow mouse knowledge is power. it might be a rebadge but its still a ford. not everyone understands they are not that bad:

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

To be honest, no. I think you're preaching to the wrong crowd here.

I'd say 99% of us would rather have AIDS than drive a modded Festiva.

Owch!

Happy to be the 1% that's AIDS free lol.

For what it's worth, the Festiva does have a very quick throttle. Yeah I know, they are Korean crap, blah blah blah. However, had I not crashed mine 3 months ago I would still be gladly driving it around. 205,000 plus km of TROUBLE FREE service.

I now have a 1.6 in a car 5 years newer, and all the electronic hoo haa between the pedal and the engine is starting to peeve me. It goes how hard it wants when it's good a ready.. If I try and do a quick pedal / gear change to get somewhere fast the dash lights up with warnings and chimes saying that I need to take it easy.... :

Still miss my Yellow Festiva ..... :(

[Danny]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

rolling response definately, off the line, no chance. It's surprisingly easy to get wheelspin up to 4th gear in a fEStiVA!

What? Up 45 degree hill made of ice??

Originally Posted by Glow_Mouse

Lol i like that, I was downtown the other night, 4 car race, a nissan silvia, sports edition lancer and a 6cly XF falcon ute and me. 1/4mile down a main street, I didnt come last that's for sure. Hey, it may be a festiva but just because you cosmo boys only worry about what a car looks like and not whats under the hood, you'd be surpised.. btw i came second...stupid ute..

Mate, are you sure the other guys knew they were actually in a race??

I have driven a 1.5 Festiva in manual in ripper purple through rent a bomb in Cairns (I was too young to be insured for hire of a proper car). I tell you now it was not fast, it was not responsive, it was scary (like all 4 wheels locking up at the slightest touch of brakes) and held around corners like Magda Szubanski in a Safeway trolley, so excuse us all for not reacting kindly to your Fast Festiva musings :

To go back on track, Kircher I agree with you on the 206 (I drove a Gti 180 and was flabbergasted at the lack of feel), and I feel that you may not be driving the right cars. I thought I'd give you an insight (as you asked) from the point of view of a gruntier 4cyl owner (My 2.0 182 Cup has been tested @ near 142kw since the stage one tune with a 0-100 time of 6.5s. Not an XR6 Turbo I know, but weighing in at a hair over a tonne, It will sip 7.9L/100 all day). I find my 182 has amazing throttle response for a Fly by wire jigger that surpasses that of both our BA/BF Xr8s we have had, and also my old Fiesta Zetec (I did find a delay in the Fiesta - I had a video of it which I cannot find!). We also have a 3.0d 08' BMW X5 in the garage now and the response on that is nothing short of phenominal!

I think it all depends on the tune of the auto throttles these days rather than the EFi system. The only Carby car I've driven was a VH 202 Blue motor and that was like a vaccuum cleaner with a full bag : so I can't really judge a carb car based on that!!

Just so you know, there ARE cars out there with EFi and ETC that are fun and involving, you need to know where to look

[kircher]

Originally Posted by Danny

To go back on track, Kircher I agree with you on the 206 (I drove a Gti 180 and was flabbergasted at the lack of feel), and I feel that you may not be driving the right cars. I thought I'd give you an insight (as you asked) from the point of view of a gruntier 4cyl owner (My 2.0 182 Cup has been tested @ near 142kw since the stage one tune with a 0-100 time of 6.5s. Not an XR6 Turbo I know, but weighing in at a hair over a tonne, It will sip 7.9L/100 all day). I find my 182 has amazing throttle response for a Fly by wire jigger that surpasses that of both our BA/BF Xr8s we have had, and also my old Fiesta Zetec (I did find a delay in the Fiesta - I had a video of it which I cannot find!). We also have a 3.0d 08' BMW X5 in the garage now and the response on that is nothing short of phenominal!

I think it all depends on the tune of the auto throttles these days rather than the EFi system. The only Carby car I've driven was a VH 202 Blue motor and that was like a vaccuum cleaner with a full bag : so I can't really judge a carb car based on that!!

Just so you know, there ARE cars out there with EFi and ETC that are fun and involving, you need to know where to look

It was actually a 2005 307 I drove. I think XSE. The 2 Litre petrol anyway. It was terrible. I said in my first post that I stalled it a couple of times taking off from a stop before I got used to it's absolute lack of response. I am used to applying throttle and simultaneously letting out the clutch in a manual. It didn't help that this thing had a really high take up point in the clutch either. It would have been impossible for me to take off on a steep hill in it without stalling or rolling backward too far without using the handbrake. The manual current model yaris I drove was almost as bad, if not as bad. They would both continue to rev after I put the clutch in and took my foot off the accelerator. Someone else mentioned that could be an emissions related issue, but I see that as petty and negligable. Any increase in emissions for that split second that a throttle plate is snapped shut would have to be nothing when taken as an average of a vehicles emissions over a period of time.

I understand that drive by wire simplifies traction control, cruise control etc. It can all be controlled with the computer rather than separate components to speed up or release the throttle, but another issue people have mentioned is with a conventional throttle too much throttle at low accelerator pedal movement makes the car jerky from a standstill. This could be solved with a conventional mechanical throttle with a progressive linkage, that opens the throttle at a faster rate as you put your foot down closer to the floor. cruise and traction control could be adjusted with a motor attached to the progressive linkage. The best of both worlds. I want to be the one controlling my car. Not a computer. If take off is jerky, then I'll use more subtle inputs. I want my throttle plate to move with my foot. Not second guess my foot.

Sadly most motorists don't care. hence why they buy corollas.

So anyway, I guess my main problems are not with EFI as such, but with electric throttles. I still think the most responsive vehicles I've driven have had carbs though.

[mcnews]

I believe you are correct and due to the quick revving nature and acceleration of bikes the effects of EFI are more evident than in a car. Although a Harley with carbs having good throttle response is a bit of an oxymoron, as not much happens when you twist the throttle on a Harley anyway :-)

CV carbs give wonderful on/off throttle response generally on a bike. Like EFI systems on bikes they generally also have a carb/throttle body for each cylinder with very short intakes runners. Suzuki have done the best EFI for years with their twin throttle butterfly per throttle body and two injectors per throttle body design. But generally well tuned carburettors in such a performance oriented design give the best throttle response. EFI is mainly to allow manfuacturers to still produce good power while strictly controlling emissions.

[kircher]

Originally Posted by mcnews

I believe you are correct and due to the quick revving nature and acceleration of bikes the effects of EFI are more evident than in a car. Although a Harley with carbs having good throttle response is a bit of an oxymoron, as not much happens when you twist the throttle on a Harley anyway :-)

CV carbs give wonderful on/off throttle response generally on a bike. Like EFI systems on bikes they generally also have a carb/throttle body for each cylinder with very short intakes runners. Suzuki have done the best EFI for years with their twin throttle butterfly per throttle body and two injectors per throttle body design. But generally well tuned carburettors in such a performance oriented design give the best throttle response. EFI is mainly to allow manfuacturers to still produce good power while strictly controlling emissions.

The only other road bike I've ridden was a Suzuki GS500. I think it was 1998 or so. They have twin CV carbs and yes, it was a very responsive bike. It would probably give dad's Harley a run for its money too, considering it revs to 11 000, and I have no doubts most other bikes will absolutely kill it acceleration, speed and handling wise. Still the Harley had awesome response from just off idle, and pulled with a torquey urge I've never experienced in any vehicle 2 wheeled or 4 wheeled before. It makes around 75hp at the rear wheel right on the rev limiter which is set to 6 000, so not too bad (in standard form they make about 40hp). But when you consider that a litre bike produces 120+ kw and weighs a lot less, it's nothing. If someone offered me a ride of one of those bikes I think I'd have to decline. I simply don't have the experience just yet. I would kill myself.

[Rev28K]

I can remember reading about Senna driving a McLaren when they had Honda powerplants. He was finicky about his throttle travel and how it controlled things.

I think that the article said that he wanted the response to be more sensitive in the middle arc of the accelerator travel and less sensitive at the top end of the travel (90% of butterflies open?). His idea was when he going flat through a turn or on a straight he’d didn’t care but he really wanted to be able to modulate the mid range openings to be more sensitive. This was in the days before electronic throttle control (and Damon Hill not taking a win at The Hungoring in an Arrows when the throttle sensor packed it in) so Honda/McLaren had to come up with a really weird complex arrangement of springs and cammed gears to make an accelerator moving in a linear arc control a throttle butterfly in a non-linear way.

Nowadays they’d just do it through the CPU from the accelerator input (P.S. I wonder if “our Nige” used a switch – he always maintained that unless you were hard on the brakes or hard on the throttle you were just wasting your time).

[ebxr8240]

Alot depends on transmission and how tight or loose the converter is..
I find the newer 4/ 5/ 6 speed auto's kick down way quicker than changing down in a manual, besides most the time the auto makes a better choice of gears...