Australian cars...is "good enough", good enough...?

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by stang65

First of all only the first line of that quote is mine although I do agree with what is written afterwards.

If Ford or Holden left manufacturing in Australia do you think our cars would be cheaper or dearer? Think hard. Don`t compare to the cheap imports that don`t hold together as well after 5 years of being driven hard.

I don`t think Ford or Holden are in the market to give you everything you need and lose money on their cars, Would you pay $10,000 more to Ford or Holden to get a better car.

you get what is budgeted for you don`t like it take your money and buy another brand, go buy a euro with that line of thinking if your cashed up.

Enjoy your euro, it will still have faults and you payed twice as much just for a few more gadgets.

unfortunately the quoting function didn't capture correctly.

See there is the biggest misconception.
Buying Euro doesn't always mean spending big dollars. Don't think of Euro cars as just Mercs, BMWs and Audis. There are VW, Skoda, FORD, Renault, etc. These don't all cost a small fortune and many are actually within the price range of other makes in the segment (C segement cars). Just look at the new Focus and what you get with that.
People need to also forget the euro car, look at the Japanese and the rise of the Koreans. They're making cars of decent quality (or have improved ten fold in Hyundai's case) for a good price.

I don't expect my "Euro" not to have faults. Far from it, a car has many moving components, they wear out and need to be replaced you'd be stupid to think otherwise. My expectation is around build quality and I expect it to be of a decent standard of which I do have now. I won't go into detail of my experiences with local cars, you can seach on that, I have posted enough about it, but small issues I did have like lack of paint on the doors, bonnet latch snapping, rear passenger seat latch breaking (four times) and constant electrical issues are not something I expect or want to have to deal with all the time from a brand new car.

The scare tactics people use about the cost of servicing a euro or any imported car is completly blown out. You need to look at the car.
The Focus costs no more to service than the Falcon at the same dealer. The only large cost was brakes but then they're not standard Focus brakes and if I was smarter at the time I would have went aftermarket.

[stang65]

Find me an Audi same price point same power same size at a simialr price.
Same for VW they not cheap either, Skoda wouldn`t even have something similar.

I am talking about a full size sedan that delivers over 300kw for the same dollars. I THINK YOUR HAVING A BIT OF a tug mate sorry but it`s true.

It`s nt the service it`s the parts , try 12,000 for a getrag gearbox for a GTI as it`s not servicable if it breaks knowone knows how....lol not in Aussie anyway.

We said the cars have to be similar in size and power.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by stang65

Find me an Audi same price point same power same size at a simialr price.
Same for VW they not cheap either, Skoda wouldn`t even have something similar.

I am talking about a full size sedan that delivers over 300kw for the same dollars. I THINK YOUR HAVING A BIT OF a tug mate sorry but it`s true.

It`s nt the service it`s the parts , try 12,000 for a getrag gearbox for a GTI as it`s not servicable if it breaks knowone knows how....lol not in Aussie anyway.

We said the cars have to be similar in size and power.

And I said not everyone wants a large 300kw car. Sales reflect this, hence this discussion. Surprisingly power isn't everything to everyone. We're referring to the quality of the product that is what the thread is about.

So ok how much for a ZF transmission from the Falcon?
How often do you replace the DSG or the ZF?
I think you're clutching at straws too much.

[stang65]

No I`m comparing to what you drive.
GO price an alternator/startermotor even a panel and see how much they cost. **** even some Jap parts cost heaps I remeber my mazda 626 parts were expensive for that.

Don`t need straws thanks.

I beleive can pick up the zf for around 6K

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by stang65

No I`m comparing to what you drive.
GO price an alternator/startermotor even a panel and see how much they cost. **** even some Jap parts cost heaps I remeber my mazda 626 parts were expensive for that.

Don`t need straws thanks.

I beleive can pick up the zf for around 6K

I don't drive a 300KW car so i don't understand your reference to it.
Really? You want to go through a whole inventory of car parts for varying models and the costs and a varying amount of cars sold here? and you're say you're not clutching at straws

You do realise many components in local cars are made by Bosch a euro company supplying other makes AND Denso who are a Toyota company?
The locals also use many other international company's for components, ZF, Brembro, etc.

I cannot verify your ZF or DSG price claims but either way do you really think 6k is a bargain to replace the transmission?

[stang65]

Sorry you are right I WAS THINKIN of F6 Phoon when I wrote that.

But it is fact european parts are expensive no need to clutch for straws.
Anything from europe is expensive. Especially AUdi and VW

[Fireblade]

Power and size matters to me none (quality does now after owning a few performance cars), but one that stands out to me from its own Ford brand is the Mondeo XR5T (along with the Focus XR5T), absolutely impressive car in build quality, power and luxury appointments and its in the similar price point,( actually its less than the car you want to compare it too which is not the one I have a problem with as that was a choice I was willing to live with for my own reasons), and of similar if not same size inside where the size matters, where do these come from? I'm not sure there is any euro's in the same price bracket as the XR6, but if push come to shove I would have a look for sure. I would be more open to some Japanese cars or even Korean, parts price is not an issue for me much, I have a few contacts that could probably sort me out with cheaper pricing.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I don't drive a 300KW car so i don't understand your reference to it.
Really? You want to go through a whole inventory of car parts for varying models and the costs and a varying amount of cars sold here? and you're say you're not clutching at straws

You do realise many components in local cars are made by Bosch a euro company supplying other makes AND Denso who are a Toyota company?
The locals also use many other international company's for components, ZF, Brembro, etc.

I cannot verify your ZF or DSG price claims but either way do you really think 6k is a bargain to replace the transmission?

as far as the zf transmission goes for replacement, this is the cost of having a truly high quality tranny with a bit of technology, you can`t have your cake and eat it too , 6k sounds a bargain to me for that bit of gear.

[stang65]

ebay currently has a zf for $2200 change over with 3 months warranty or an extra $500 if you have no change over.

[stang65]

yes but the mondeo and Focus are world cars not made for just one country like the Falcon is. They have massive exports that justify thlarger budgets.

As i stated earlier if Ford charged an extra $10,000 to give you a similar product would you fork out the cash?

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by stang65

yes but the mondeo and Focus are world cars not made for just one country like the Falcon is. They have massive exports that justify thlarger budgets.

As i stated earlier if Ford charged an extra $10,000 to give you a similar product would you fork out the cash?

And hence the better quality also, doesn't dismiss it as an option.

If the overall quality is better, Yes I would, I would also pay more for more interior appointments, but sadly I'm in the minority on that one.

[stang65]

Would have to agree that you would be the minority i know when I paid $50k for my xr6 turbo i said thats all I was prepared to pay for a car if it was anymore regardless of brand they wouldn`t have got my money.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by mik

as far as the zf transmission goes for replacement, this is the cost of having a truly high quality tranny with a bit of technology, you can`t have your cake and eat it too , 6k sounds a bargain to me for that bit of gear.

I wasn't criticising the transmission, i have had it and thought it was brilliant. It was the best decision Ford AU made to include it in their line up.
I only used it as a reference when the price of parts were compared from Euro cars to local. I was trying to make a point that even local cars have expensive replacement parts in them. 6k is not cheap for the average person to have to pay for a replacement but like you said that's what you get for better quality.

Originally Posted by stang65

But it is fact european parts are expensive no need to clutch for straws.
Anything from europe is expensive. Especially AUdi and VW

You keep telling yourself that

[aussiegeorge]

WARNING NEWBIE HERE

I have a holden vr and the kid has an old xf. the same major things break on both cars. For example front suspension. Twice as much money to replace on the holden. wARNING RANT COMING! I had to rip the entire dash out of the holden to fix the air con. While inside I found that the factory had made up a makeshift wiring harness that was about to catch on fire! The holden has all sorts of things that break due to bad quality assembly Rant over language warning canceled.

The xf so far has only had one thing that broke that the parts are not available for. The three on the tree shifter. I welded the levers and they cracked again after two years. Some research says that they need to be high tensile steel. I am having a batch of them lasered out of bisplate 400. Does anybody want some of these levers? The other things that are not available are the so called bird cage or steering wheel surround. I have a pattern and could cut out some reinforcements for the hogged out holes where the shift lever goes. For him I welded up some bits of metal. It looks bad but is still going strong. Lastly the Bearing that the shift levers slide in is weak. I have a pattern reinforcing plates made up or alternatively a pattern for building up the whole thing. For now I hogged out some plates to get him on the road. Is there any interest in this or has everybody retired all the three on a tree shifters?

[onfire]

Take a look in today's Saturday Herald Sun. The Ford Falcon isn't even in the top 10 selling cars anymore. As much as we're loyalists to the brand, and there is a lot of redeemable qualities in the Falcon range. The stats show the Falcon is falling a long way behind it's main rival, the Commodore.

There were almost 10,000 cars sold separating the two vehicles. Something is seriously wrong.

[MrsLow006]

I hate too say this ..... but it is may experience, the best car I ever owned was Hyundai Elantra - I had it Five years, did not go back for warranty once and I just drove it and drove it. Now yep it had its design faults - ie you could not put the manual into reverse with the handbrake on and the hatch needed heavier duty gas lifts in it. It was just so heavy to lift.
Anyway I have had Holdens - the VT had the gearbox out 7 times, dash fell off twice, replaced the seals in the car numerous times, scrubbed out tyres every 10,000km I could go on... And now we have the FG..... well what can I say.... I have lost count of the times i have had the car in for warranty work and the thousands it has cost ford - parts suppliers etc. Replacement camshaft being one, BEM, Switches (window), suspension joints, diff bushes, glove box lids, handbrake cover, door seals etc etc. Don't get me wrong I love the FG but it's a new car - cost cutting, all about profit margins before quality etc etc.... Good enough just does not cut it because the new "good enough" suxs - so now we have two old school projects on the go.
When they are on the road the FG goes. Maybe the old "Good enough" was better or my husbands "Good enough". PS we are going to keep our 22 year old Nissan(Ford) Patrol for ever

[aussiegeorge]

We had a late model dedicated gas station wagon. It was a money pit. The so called "country special" springs kept breaking. Its tail stuck way up in the air causing handling and no end of front end problems.I finally put ute springs under the thing to support the lpg tanks and lower the tail back to level.

It had problems with things like the mirrors falling off. Cost a fortune to keep the thing going.

Before the station wagon there was a green ford sedan that was lousy too

Based on that I think the word is out. I will probably never find out what a new holden is like. After the ford wagon she is back to driving a mitsubishi.
Plus I would not buy any car that has a timing belt. She had the poor mechanic change the timing belt. I don't think that we are allowed back at his place. He earned his 1200 bucks for sure. But other than that routine maintenance it has been really good.

She had an old magna that never did break. The second owner drove the thing into the ground for about six years Probably did about 600k.

.

[DanielXR8]

[QUOTE=mik]

Originally Posted by onfire

while some of what you say may be true , but no doubt they have x amount of budget to work with and x amount of work force to get the job done, and rome was`nt built in a day, but looking at what is on the table now and what is in the pipline i`d say there`s a lot to look forward too, the new gas system, the 4 cyl engine, we just got the new boss engine last year, the new diesel for the terri,
its all good and well to say the falc should have this and that but you have to look at the big picture, you certainly can`t accuse ford oz of sitting on their hands.

Hmm. So maybe Ford need to put up a few signs in each service section. "Yes your car is a lemon, but look at the big picture".

Or "I wouldn't want to own your car, but next years will be a corker."

Or. "The money we saved on durability and quality, is helping an American company".

Hope you get my point. People aren't happy with that thinking. Yes Ford Australia may not have the budget for this or that, but things like build quality, durability and service are not optional anymore. Australia is not a protected car market and if Ford doesn't step up (including funding) to make the best they can, then people walk from the brand - as they should and as they do. Next years model is irrelevant if this years model you own doesn't work. Something Ford fails to learn. Customers do not see Ford as a charity that needs their help, they see it as a business that let them down.

[onfire]

Yeah, I didn't say that DanXR8.