Falcon future to be decided in 6 months: Mays - Page 3

z80 · 14-09-2011, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Hmmm, a turbo diesel AWD Falcon with a 2.5 tonne tow capacity.

I see diesel Mondeos everywhere in rural Australia, make it Australian made, with more room, all-wheel-drive, big tow capacity, with the Falcon name and you will have the default sedan for Australian rural buyers.

Personally I doubt there will ever be an AWD Falcon.

If you want AWD, buy a Territory is the FoA business model.

A Falcon with AWD would drink an extra 20% more fuel, and be completely unnecessary in Australian conditions.

jpd80 · 14-09-2011, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbo/region15

Exactly my point ...You look at a schedule that can be 8 weeks ahead.Plan for it.
Ive been in Automotive Components since 1985,so have a fair idea whats going on in the Manufacturing world.

Do you suspect that Ford will source alternate components to yours from Asia or elsewhere?
Can they do that or is your supply chain essential as just in time delivery?

robbo/region15 · 14-09-2011, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Do you suspect that Ford will source alternate components to yours from Asia or elsewhere?
Can they do that or is your supply chain essential as just in time delivery?

To be honest,Ford can do what they want,being in reasonably close proximity,maybe that keeps us in the picture....
Being JIT,that helps & we have a long association with all of the Auto companies in Australia,these days that is Nostalgia,nothing more .To put it mildly i think component manufacturing is virtualy doomed in this country.

* I recall the day Nissan closed,in the same 24 hrs,all there Moulding Tools were welded shut...

Bobman · 14-09-2011, 10:05 PM

Most of the speculators about the Falcon have been magazine or online car site writers. This has been going on for years.

Have to wonder though if in the future labour rates grow in countries such as China and India as the industrial revolution hits full peak - what will people do then? I personally can't wait for that to happen, so companies stop trying to save a buck and exploit slave labour.

jpd80 · 14-09-2011, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbo/region15

To be honest,Ford can do what they want,being in reasonably close proximity,maybe that keeps us in the picture....
Being JIT,that helps & we have a long association with all of the Auto companies in Australia,these days that is Nostalgia,nothing more .To put it mildly i think component manufacturing is virtualy doomed in this country.

* I recall the day Nissan closed,in the same 24 hrs,all there Moulding Tools were welded shut...

Look at Pilkington glass, Ford went to an Asian supplier through its FAPA approved supplier list,
I think the same is clearly happening with all local suppliers and the squish is on for profitability.
That sadly, will see more local suppliers being forced out, it's the death of a thousand cuts...

Bossxr8 · 14-09-2011, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z80

Personally I doubt there will ever be an AWD Falcon.

If you want AWD, buy a Territory is the FoA business model.

A Falcon with AWD would drink an extra 20% more fuel, and be completely unnecessary in Australian conditions.

The yanks want FWD because its around 1 mpg better economy, but going awd removes that gain and further adds costs, so whats the point?

robbo/region15 · 14-09-2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Look at Pilkington glass, Ford went to an Asian supplier through its FAPA approved supplier list,
I think the same is clearly happening with all local suppliers and the squish is on for profitability.
That sadly, will see more local suppliers being forced out, it's the death of a thousand cuts...

Who was the Glass mob in Geelong that MHG now own?

Death of a thousand cuts would have to be better than The Cat o Nine Tails were currently dining on ,surely........

phillyc · 14-09-2011, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z80

Personally I doubt there will ever be an AWD Falcon.

If you want AWD, buy a Territory is the FoA business model.

A Falcon with AWD would drink an extra 20% more fuel, and be completely unnecessary in Australian conditions.

Agreed with the first 2 statements. But completely disagree with the 3rd. Sadly at the top of the page which gets the most attention.

Why would AWD Falcon drink 20% more? It wouldn't.

RWD FG Falcon uses 9.9L/100km and RWD SZ Territory uses 10.6L/100km. Despite their being a ~275kg (+15%) weight difference between them and a sedan versus SUV body. Only 7%.

The SY2 Territory AWD (6spd) used 12.5L, RWD (4spd) used 12.0L/100km. About 4% but add the acknowledged 6% gain from the 4spd to 6spd. So, 10%.

The SZ Diesel AWD uses 8.2L, RWD 8.8L/100km with both using 6spd. About 7%.

Empirically. Somewhere between 7% and 10% is most likely.

SteveJH · 14-09-2011, 10:28 PM

At the end of the day, the same amount of power is getting to the ground, the only thing changing is the higher drive train losses, so unless 20% more power is lost to the drive train in an AWD setup, then fuel use will not increase by 20%.

Falc'man · 14-09-2011, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

Agreed with the first 2 statements. But completely disagree with the 3rd. Sadly at the top of the page which gets the most attention.

Why would AWD Falcon drink 20% more? It wouldn't.

RWD FG Falcon uses 9.9L/100km and RWD SZ Territory uses 10.6L/100km. Despite their being a ~275kg (+15%) weight difference between them and a sedan versus SUV body. Only 7%.

The SY2 Territory AWD (6spd) used 12.5L, RWD (4spd) used 12.0L/100km. About 4% but add the acknowledged 6% gain from the 4spd to 6spd. So, 10%.

The SZ Diesel AWD uses 8.2L, RWD 8.8L/100km with both using 6spd. About 7%.

Empirically. Somewhere between 7% and 10% is most likely.

Yep, and if they go Carbon Fibre on the rims, that's 7-8% improvement right there

4.0i OHC · 14-09-2011, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z80

A Falcon with AWD would be completely unnecessary in Australian conditions.

True. The WRX market would most likely never buy a Falcon anyway.

Edit: From what I hear, the Americans don't want FWD either; they feel that it is forced upon them by manufacturers looking to save money. Read any US article about the Falcon, and the comments section would be littered with replies stating that Ford should bring the Falcon over to the US, and that the Falcon is a much better car than the local Ford product.

4.0i OHC · 14-09-2011, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

Facelifted Taurus due out soon, you be the judge...
http://www.ford.com/cars/thenewtaurus/

I simply can't get my head around how dated that...erm...car looks. The doors still look circa 2000 Mondeo. As well as this, it appears very 'fat' and American looking, apparently with no interior space as well. Keep that abomination off our shores, please.

This is coming from a person who saw an AU I Forte drive past on their walk home, and thought "Wow, that is one fine looking car!" (What is happening to me?)

Nice to see the EcoBoost 2.0 available, though.

Ford_The_Win · 14-09-2011, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.0i OHC

I simply can't get my head around how dated that...erm...car looks. The doors still look circa 2000 Mondeo. As well as this, it appears very 'fat' and American looking, apparently with no interior space as well. Keep that abomination off our shores, please.

I wouldn't exactly call it an 'abombination', there have been much worse looking American cars over the years. I prefer the conservative look personally. Although the foot operated parking brake is a joke, it's not the 1950s anymore Ford NA.

2011G6E · 15-09-2011, 04:32 AM

Given that the Falcon (and Territory) is the only car in the entire range that isn't an "import", then I don't see how the brand will "collapse" if they replace teh Falcon with something from overseas.

They don't sell bulk cars to enthusiasts...they sell them to people who want "a car" and fleet buyers. There is also too much concentration of it being a rear wheel drive platform...the fact is that they've repeatedly shown that the vast majority of people either couldn't care or don't know which end of thier car is doing the driving...front wheel drives have come a long way, and people care more about other things than chirping the back tyres.

It'd be nice to see Falcon survive...but I still remember the wailing and nashing of teeth when the Kingswood went the way of the dodo for the Commodore, and Chrysler killed off the CM Valiant for the Sigma. Neither company went bust, the buyers just changed thier perspective and realised what they really wanted out of a car...and it wasn't the name.

Road_Warrior · 15-09-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Given that the Falcon (and Territory) is the only car in the entire range that isn't an "import", then I don't see how the brand will "collapse" if they replace teh Falcon with something from overseas.

They don't sell bulk cars to enthusiasts...they sell them to people who want "a car" and fleet buyers. There is also too much concentration of it being a rear wheel drive platform...the fact is that they've repeatedly shown that the vast majority of people either couldn't care or don't know which end of thier car is doing the driving...front wheel drives have come a long way, and people care more about other things than chirping the back tyres.

It'd be nice to see Falcon survive...but I still remember the wailing and nashing of teeth when the Kingswood went the way of the dodo for the Commodore, and Chrysler killed off the CM Valiant for the Sigma. Neither company went bust, the buyers just changed thier perspective and realised what they really wanted out of a car...and it wasn't the name.

The customer survey Ford did a couple of years ago indicated that 50% of people didn't care which wheels drive the car, and the other 50% actually did. So I don't know where you've pulled that "fact" that has been "repeatedly shown" that large car buyers don't care about drive type. There were even forum members here who completed the survey...

aussie muscle · 15-09-2011, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Given that the Falcon (and Territory) is the only car in the entire range that isn't an "import", then I don't see how the brand will "collapse" if they replace teh Falcon with something from overseas.

What will the Falcon Performance Vehicles (FPV) company do? they haven't really bothered using the rest of the ford range. ie hot hatches or fpv rangers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobman

Have to wonder though if in the future labour rates grow in countries such as China and India as the industrial revolution hits full peak - what will people do then?

They'll simply look for other cheap labour sources.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.0i OHC

This is coming from a person who saw an AU I Forte drive past on their walk home, and thought "Wow, that is one fine looking car!" (What is happening to me?)

it's a nice car apart from that cheese grille. WWTT?

Brazen · 15-09-2011, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z80

Personally I doubt there will ever be an AWD Falcon.

If you want AWD, buy a Territory is the FoA business model.

A Falcon with AWD would drink an extra 20% more fuel, and be completely unnecessary in Australian conditions.

If it is Taurus based there will be an AWD version, they would throw away too many profitable performance and luxury sales if it was FWD only.

Actually I am betting it will be released as AWD only to begin with and then 6 months down the track FWD versions will be released. That way the media wont focus on it being FWD when it is first released and tarnish the new model.