stupid placement of a school zone speedlimit

mrbaxr6t · 26-09-2011, 04:52 PM

okay I am quite annoyed at this bs stunt a CHURCH has decided to pull on one of the local roads here said road has a speedlimit of 60kmh and before you bleet it is signposted at 60 kph and it is 60 kmh - some time ago (two months or so) some of those double tape roadcounters went down in three different locations as somebody claimed that motorists were speeding along this road, and when the data was collected no the motorists weren't speeding they were traveling at 60 kmh which is LEGAL and as such no road measures (speed bumps or chicanes) were to be installed to slow the traffic down as they were not speeding. now what it seems these do-gooders at this particular church have decided to do is start giving religous instruction to a small group (under 10 as best as I can tell at this point in time) and as such they are now a church/school and as such have got council to install the school 40kmh limit on this road, now schools at school pickup/dropoff times are busy places but this place is completely dead no buses no parents dropping kids off etc etc.. I have done some recon on this "place" and the school zone is not required as the place cannot possibly require a "school zone speedlimit" as there are no children coming and going. this has made me furious that some church can decide that they are a school and make everybody pander to the 40kmh limit because according to them we are driving too fast. Clearly local council believes the road safe at 60kmh otherwise it would be 50kmh and they have no right to do this. whats next 40kmh around parks because there may or may not be children there? I plan on going to council with this abuse of legislation and will await a response. Sorry I just had to get this off my chest as its got me so angry that laws that are designed to protect children can be perverted such.

Pedro · 26-09-2011, 05:34 PM

C'mon you know you're only trying to get Harold Scruby to post on here. LOL

FrogInASock · 26-09-2011, 06:04 PM

Location or it didn't happen.

Mercury 8 · 26-09-2011, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro

C'mon you know you're only trying to get Harold Scruby to post on here. LOL

That made me LOL.

Jim Goose · 26-09-2011, 06:53 PM

BA your not really clear in the post, but did they turn it into a school zone? or did they just post new speed limits?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogInASock

Location or it didn't happen.

Actually Frog in Townsville the council DID DO a similar thing just a few months ago..

Townsend St is a major suburban road which joins two important main roads which run parrallel to each other, but seperated by about 1km.

Its been posted as a 60kmh zone since the dawn of time (well ok maybe not that long, but its always been 60 since the 1970s.).
Now along this road is a combined church and daycare/ kindergarden center, which has also been there since the 1970s.

Now this church center is rarely busy, unless its on a Sunday where cars line the street either side for about 100m.

In all this time there has NEVER been any accidents there and the last time i can remember police having a radar trap there was in the late 1990s (I got pulled over).

Now this road isnt overly busy at all, but as i said its an important link between two major roads here which during peak hour get VERY congested.

Now suddenly the council installed TWO LOTS of speed bumps right in front of the Church because "people had complained about speeding"!

Funny how Police havent ever set up any radar traps, or funnier still why wasnt the speed limit lowered to 50kmh? OR if the concern was for a safe way to cross the road in front of the church, why wasnt a pedestrian crossing installed???

But sadly NO.... two sets of speed bumps and the speed limit is STILL 60!
(the speed bumps are those rubber ones dynabolted to the road and are narrower then each lane. My wheel track is just wider then the speed bumps so if im careful i can avoid the humps).

So yes STUPID things like this can happen!

2011G6E · 26-09-2011, 06:59 PM

...so...doing 40kph for a short distance on a short piece of road where signposted is too much inconvenience in your busy day...?

geckoGT · 26-09-2011, 07:03 PM

The place to take this is to your local council.

pottery beige · 26-09-2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

...so...doing 40kph for a short distance on a short piece of road where signposted is too much inconvenience in your busy day...?

much more inconvenience running over a snotty nosed little catholic kid in a school zone.....

TheInterceptor · 26-09-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

...so...doing 40kph for a short distance on a short piece of road where signposted is too much inconvenience in your busy day...?

On the way to work, i pass through 3 school zones. With them active, i get to work in 15mins.

With them inactive i get to work in 10mins.

Really no big inconvenience in my case but i get the OP's point. When theres NO NEED for them, they **** me like hell. Same story with 40kmph workzones when theres nobody there but thats a different thread.

Jim Goose · 26-09-2011, 07:32 PM

Im not against school zones at all.. but when speeds are reduced for no real reason 24hrs a day (when its not needed) then it becomes annoying.

Some schools you may not see kids at the time specified, thats fine by me.
I can accept that. Like TheInterceptor said, roadworks are an other, leaving 40kmh when there no one working and no lane closures etc....

sudszy · 26-09-2011, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I plan on going to council with this abuse of legislation and will await a response. .

Council is not able to decide on the speed limit of roads in its jurisdiction.

council ultimately makes a reccommendation to your road regulatory body, they have to sign off on councils reccommendation, council can not decide these things on a whim.

It is not clear whether they have labelled this area as a school zone(Im interpreting that for you 40km/h and schoolzone mean the same thing?)
Are there signs and do they only apply for the school times and not for weekends?
areas can be signed as 40km/h zones that aren't school zones, busy shopping strips if sufficient concerns exist about the area, perhaps council can provide you with the reason?, it isnt necessary for people to have actually been run over at the area for this to occur

FGII-XR6 · 26-09-2011, 07:53 PM

one possible way to deal with it is to get actual evidence that there are not school aged children there during the posted times. once you do that you have evidence that they acted corruptly in applying for the school zone so you can lodge a complaint with ICAC. Who ever made the original Application can end up on criminal charges and any further attempts to get a school zone will be scrutinised before any approval is given making it hard for them to try it again

Jim Goose · 26-09-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

Council is not able to decide on the speed limit of roads in its jurisdiction.

council ultimately makes a reccommendation to your road regulatory body, they have to sign off on councils reccommendation, council can not decide these things on a whim.

It is not clear whether they have labelled this area as a school zone(Im interpreting that for you 40km/h and schoolzone mean the same thing?)
Are there signs and do they only apply for the school times and not for weekends?
areas can be signed as 40km/h zones that aren't school zones, busy shopping strips if sufficient concerns exist about the area, perhaps council can provide you with the reason?, it isnt necessary for people to have actually been run over at the area for this to occur

Dunno what state your in, but council controlled roads mean just that in QLD.

They set the speed limits, signs etc within their city limits.... thats why the state government created the MUTC, so that councils and main roads abide by it.

TMR in QLD owns/ controls a vast number of major roads within major cities.
But the rest are up to the council.

sudszy · 26-09-2011, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Dunno what state your in, but council controlled roads mean just that in QLD.

They set the speed limits, signs etc within their city limits.... thats why the state government created the MUTC, so that councils and main roads abide by it.

TMR in QLD owns/ controls a vast number of major roads within major cities.
But the rest are up to the council.

Council simply follows the rules setup by the regulators, they cant go out on a limb and do crazy stuff.

However, my understanding is that 60km/h roads are classed as arterials and they fall under state regulators, this is how it is in Vic, guessing other states are the same, the OP is in qld?. There is a busy suburban strip where I live where council is unable to get the limit lowered to 40km/h because of this.

foxtrot3 · 26-09-2011, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

Council is not able to decide on the speed limit of roads in its jurisdiction.

council ultimately makes a reccommendation to your road regulatory body, they have to sign off on councils reccommendation, council can not decide these things on a whim.

It is not clear whether they have labelled this area as a school zone(Im interpreting that for you 40km/h and schoolzone mean the same thing?)
Are there signs and do they only apply for the school times and not for weekends?
areas can be signed as 40km/h zones that aren't school zones, busy shopping strips if sufficient concerns exist about the area, perhaps council can provide you with the reason?, it isnt necessary for people to have actually been run over at the area for this to occur

Hi. In Victoria the state sets the type of school zone based on the existing limit, 50k road gets a fixed 40k school zone a 60k road gets a variable time 40k school zone and 80k roads get a timed 60 school zone so our local council put up the speed limits in some streets so they got a variable zone and after the audit and zones were set put the existing limits back so we got variable zones on 50k streets. Cheers MD

Franco Cozzo · 26-09-2011, 09:11 PM

Go there at night and swap it for a 100km/h sign

cobramania · 27-09-2011, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

Council simply follows the rules setup by the regulators, they cant go out on a limb and do crazy stuff.

However, my understanding is that 60km/h roads are classed as arterials and they fall under state regulators, this is how it is in Vic, guessing other states are the same, the OP is in qld?. There is a busy suburban strip where I live where council is unable to get the limit lowered to 40km/h because of this.

NSW is the same as Queensland, the RTA (state), has control & maintains freeways & major arterial roads & limits. Most main roads & local roads are owned, maintained & controlled by the local council that they're in. The councils can decide on the speed limits, whether to put in or take out speed humps, chicanes or other speed slowing devices, make them one way, close a road (fully or partially), & parking restrictions.

Near me the borders between councils, often cross or run down the middle of roads, for a period of time a few years back, one council decided to make all local streets 50, but the other council wanted to stay at 60, so a couple of the roads you would drive along at 60, then at the border it would change to 50 or vice versa (one changed speeds halfway down a hill, 60 to 50 going down, 50 to 60 going up), another particular road was 50 on one side (going one direction) & 60 on the other, as each side was in a different local council area. Needless to say, a couple of weeks later this road was changed to 50 on both sides for continuity, but the others stayed with different speed limits for a few years until both councils had 50 local streets.

mrbaxr6t · 27-09-2011, 05:17 PM

firstly this is in regional Victoria and secondly its one of those 40kmh between x and x times, and thirdly I am not against school zones I am against the dangerous precedent this sets, if this church can do this whats stopping others doing it also, needlessly this is my bone of contention it is not placed outside a school it is placed outside a church masquerading as a school to inconvenience others needlessly, I use this road very frequently and never have I witnessed the usual goings on associated with a school, by this I mean buses and kids arriving and leaving at the usual times. As it is currently school holidays clearly there is no activity at this place or at actual schools so my investigations will need to wait until school returns after the holidays