Britain Increasing Speed Limit to 80mph.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Well you could probably dedicate an entire conference of psychologists to analysing cause and effect but I wonder if the levels of sheer human vagueness here (not being aware of surroundings and external events and lack of anticipation) is entirely down to the speed at which they travel.

I've driven a lot in Europe and I see virtually no inattentiveness. And what is taken as rudeness in Europe is not really rudeness but the European way of being honestly direct. I certainly haven't seen anything like the very disturbing murderous road rage you see here.

Do you think that some of this "disturbing murderous road rage" may stem from years of being beaten over the head by nannyista do gooders at any and every opportunity?

Interestingly I find that the worst road rage appears to be in the cities where there are the highest levels of "enforcement".

Another point to consider is that as opposed to Europe, Australia has never been occupied by foreign forces and Australians have never had to use extreme measures to remove dictatorships so we have no idea whether of not we are heading towards one or what to do about it....

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by flappist

Do you think that some of this "disturbing murderous road rage" may stem from years of being beaten over the head by nannyista do gooders at any and every opportunity?

Interestingly I find that the worst road rage appears to be in the cities where there are the highest levels of "enforcement".

Another point to consider is that as opposed to Europe, Australia has never been occupied by foreign forces and Australians have never had to use extreme measures to remove dictatorships so we have no idea whether of not we are heading towards one or what to do about it....

Isn't Australia presently occupied by a force of unAustralian nannyistas?

In terms of road rage, I believe the larger Australian cities suffer a high degree of "transport stress" brought about by a combination of severe under-investment in public transport (resulting in car-dependency) and an inadequate road system to handle that greater volume of vehicles. The chickens have come home to roost in cities like Sydney where road traffic has reached nightmarish proportions resulting in loss of productivity, lifestyle degradation and frustration - which sometimes boils over into rage.

Nannying would certainly contribute to that situation but I think would be more the icing on the cake rather than the underlying cause.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by new2ford

"Undertaking" is unfortunately necessary in Australia because of the huge number of drivers who won't keep left unless overtaking and the lack of enforcement of that (indeed I understand NSW has recently reduced the penalty points for not keeping left, which sends out a great message!).

Here is a rundown of speed limits by country:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_by_country

Yes, a necessary evil here. It comes down to poor road design and coupled with that poor driver training.

So many of our major highways in WA have traffic lights with no overpasses, which means you often have to leave them from the right, which means going into the fast lane, and when that intersection doesn't flow, the stopped traffic all banks up into the fastlane.

We had traffic lights on the Kwinana Fwy up until a few years ago. Every couple of km's you "left" the Freeway to get back onto it again after the lights. Ridiculous.

We now have ring highways around Perth which take just as much traffic as the north south freeway system and they are only just putting overpass bridges onto them. The trouble is, they put lights at the end of the off and on ramps where they should have roundabouts that self govern like they do on the motorways in England. WA seems obsessed with traffic lights. I used to work in the Engineering Dept of one of the local councils and the cost of a good roundabout was about half that of a set of lights, and they flow more traffic.

Another thing we are seeing over here which is destroying the driving experience is the amount of seriously dangerous poor driving skills. You know the "driving the wrong way onto a freeway" sort of stuff. Generally due to foreigners (I have nothing against foreigners or immigration to this country) who can't read the signs or just can't drive.

Over here, you can get a license way too easily and I don't know how some taxi drivers, courier drivers etc are getting there licenses. I would like to see all professional drivers (taxi, courier, etc) having to do advanced driver training, and having to resit a test every 5 years.

I wonder how many can just get a license here, because back in Kazikstan, they owned a donkey and once drove in a tractor. "Here, become a taxi driver in Australia" It may not be that simple, but the proof is in the pudding. You can't blame someone for a course of action, if they honestly don't know it's wrong. The government has got to train drivers so much better. I could go on and on, so I'll stop now.

That's why we don't have high speed zones in most of Oz. Oz drivers couldn't handle it.

[rancidpunx]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ah the old "Australians are bad drivers" agument. Its a load of crap. Europeans can be just as rude, aggressive, inattentive on the roads as any Australian, its just that the higher speeds force you to concentrate and pay attention. If you have the same speeds here as you do in Europe you will start to see driving levels at European levels.

The licencing system in Europe is arduous but an Australian P-plater will gain more driving expierience in a fortnight than a UK learner driver does in a couple of months. Kind of like how the mummy bird throws the baby birds out of nest forcing them to fly we do the same to drivers over here and in my opinion a young Australian driver will typically be better more confident and better prepared in an emergency situation than a UK young driver who grabs an instruction book to see what they need to do when a dog runs across the road. Just my expierience with young European drivers is that they are skittish and nervous on the roads.

The problem then becomes that we dumb down driving over here to such a low level that no one pays attention.

No matter where you go in the world, Asia, US, Europe whatever. People adapt to the conditions and behaviour around them, what seems to be universal is that the faster you drive the better you drive.

Wrong!

I learnt to drive in the UK. I have a few friends there that have upwards of 6 tests to finally pass. I have a friend here who hit a kerb whilst exiting a roundabout and still passed. Youngsters there are more prepared to be on the road and in my opinion that few weeks after an aussie kid passes is just catch up time.
Being nervous after you pass is natural and happens everywhere.
Europeans CAN be rude, aggressive, inattentive on the roads as any Australian BUT they know how to drive to the conditions and surroundings which makes them better drivers by definition.

As much as it sucks to hear you have a country of bad drivers its true. Im sure many here as enthusiasts would be in the top 10% but average Joe out there in his white goods Toyota is just plain bad.

[TMC]

I was just thinking too that we have nothing in Australia like the B roads in the UK. You have to know how to drive on those roads or you will die. Basically the B roads are all the little roads designed for horse and carts that go through all the little towns and hamlets around the place. The edge of 2 story buildings are right on the kerb on bends in a lot of places and the speed limit is 30mph. True there are a lot of scuff marks on the buildings, probably where slightly overwidth stuff has hit the buildings, but I remember thinking to myself that if these roads were in WA, every young guy who likes to hang the back out on his ute would be hitting these sorts of buildings every day. But you didn't really see that sort of nonsense going on over there.

Then there are the one lane cobblestone bridges and the very narrow main streets through villages where tourist coaches share the road and you literally miss the side of them with your wing mirrors by centimetres, and the hedges which you virtually have to drive within 15cm of sometimes. One of the common sayings my UK friend had while driving over there was "suck in" when going past a coach or a truck, then "breathe out" when you got past. Perth drivers would just lockup all 4 wheels unless they had at least 2m clearance on either side.