The Eagle has Landed..or The Falcon has plummeted - Page 5

OZQUAD44 · 06-04-2016, 08:54 AM

Let's be clear, I'm not saying the only reason the falcon is lost to us is because of the AU. I said it was a contributing factor. Look at the graph.... Lead foot, yes BA and territory sales did spark numbers up again, that was my point. But the fact remains, the rot begun with the styling failure which was the AU. As good as the driveline was in the AU, the damage was done, and for that it gets no love from me.

I would not be surprised if the people who signed off on that look either had a long term view the falcon was gone, or they had intentions to kill it. The fact it was put together so well is the story of the Falcons life. Strong ingenuity and local commitment to the great Australian road car, let down by poor decisions higher up the food chain.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

roddy1960 · 06-04-2016, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

Let's be clear, I'm not saying the only reason the falcon is lost to us is because of the AU. I said it was a contributing factor. Look at the graph.... Lead foot, yes BA and territory sales did spark numbers up again, that was my point. But the fact remains, the rot begun with the styling failure which was the AU. As good as the driveline was in the AU, the damage was done, and for that it gets no love from me.

I would not be surprised if the people who signed off on that look either had a long term view the falcon was gone, or they had intentions to kill it. The fact it was put together so well is the story of the Falcons life. Strong ingenuity and local commitment to the great Australian road car, let down by poor decisions higher up the food chain.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

G'day..We'll agree to disagree then..The AU will be regarded by many over time as two things ..First thing as perhaps the most polarising Falcon ..Love or hate the look BUT...second thing is way more important..Will go down as one of the most reliable of all time..No-one can deny that..I am a huge fan of the AU , because I own one , drive it EVERY DAY and in 13 years ownership it's almost never let me down.There are thousands of AU owners who say the same..By the way , most of the styling grumbles were attributed to the AU l...AU ll and lll ..much less so..This gets me every time..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlqUZ6OwKw8 Granted these are the T series but....if they don't rock your world..Well.........Cheers..Rod..

LeadFoot81 · 06-04-2016, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

Let's be clear, I'm not saying the only reason the falcon is lost to us is because of the AU. I said it was a contributing factor. Look at the graph.... Lead foot, yes BA and territory sales did spark numbers up again, that was my point. But the fact remains, the rot begun with the styling failure which was the AU. As good as the driveline was in the AU, the damage was done, and for that it gets no love from me.

I would not be surprised if the people who signed off on that look either had a long term view the falcon was gone, or they had intentions to kill it. The fact it was put together so well is the story of the Falcons life. Strong ingenuity and local commitment to the great Australian road car, let down by poor decisions higher up the food chain.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Falcon sales peaked at 85,000 in 2004. Commodore sales peaked at 88,000 in 2002. 2005 onwards they both started spiralling downward, at the same time small cars/dual cab utes and SUVs started really taking off. I'm not sure how AU contributed to this.

For reference, the AU scored 81,000 sales in it's first full year, and didn't have that bad an innings overall. Lost sales for Falcon during the AU year went to VT/VX (by default, as was the state of affairs back then) it was only when our two local heroes faced changing buyer trends that it all went pear shaped.

If you don't like the car's styling that's fair enough (they are polarising no doubt) but to blame AU in any way for the fall of Aussie auto manufacturing...that's a big stretch.

OZQUAD44 · 06-04-2016, 02:22 PM

I wish people would actually read my post. I said it was One Contributing factor! Look at the chart, you know the one in this thread.

Sales took a massive dive around the release of the AU and did not recover unit the release of the BA. in sales terms this was a massive hit for the falcon, and if you think a bit hit like this had no impact on the future of the falcon, good luck to you. I believe firmly that this loss of sales in this period had a massive impact on how the falcon sat in the market place, and I strongly suggest it would have had an impact on the decision making process in relation to the future of the falcon. Love the AU all you like, but the facts are their in the sales chart.

I never said anything bad about the driveline or its reliability, again, please read my posts In this matter, or not, suit yourself's

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Vesper Martini · 06-04-2016, 04:49 PM

Your post makes sense to me, But I think some get blinded by their own preferences.

It wouldn't matter how many stats you put in front of them. to them the AU is god.

sounds very much like the Tempted character

Falcon SXR8 · 06-04-2016, 05:28 PM

I don't think the au had anything to do with falcons demise I mean lets say the au never existed and we went straight to ba do you really think falcon would be selling heaps at the moment, I highly doubt it. Falcon died because people changed, the market changed, both ford and holden are dead and there is way more important things to blame it on than a car from 5 models ago that had questionable looks. IMO

Adamz Ghia · 06-04-2016, 05:45 PM

Falcon died because the XK's front suspension was falling apart...

LeadFoot81 · 06-04-2016, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

I wish people would actually read my post. I said it was One Contributing factor! Look at the chart, you know the one in this thread.

Sales took a massive dive around the release of the AU and did not recover unit the release of the BA. in sales terms this was a massive hit for the falcon, and if you think a bit hit like this had no impact on the future of the falcon, good luck to you. I believe firmly that this loss of sales in this period had a massive impact on how the falcon sat in the market place, and I strongly suggest it would have had an impact on the decision making process in relation to the future of the falcon. Love the AU all you like, but the facts are their in the sales chart.

I never said anything bad about the driveline or its reliability, again, please read my posts In this matter, or not, suit yourself's

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes, I'm aware you believe it was one contributing factor, and yes you never said anything bad about driveline or reliability.

The sales chart demonstrates that the total volume of Falcons and Commodores sold during the AU era didn't drop, buyers merely swapped camps. It wasn't until the mid 00's that buyers started to desert the big sedans. Think Falcadore vs everything else rather than Ford v Holden.

Speaking of numbers, even in the face of the dramatic drop in (AU) Falcon sales (81,000 in it's first full year down to 69,000 in it's last full year) Fomoco still approved a billion dollars for Ford Aus to develop BA Falcon and SX Territory. This was a *massive commitment* considering the VT/VX Commodore sold 95,000 and 85,000 in the same years. They did so because the volume was still there (as I stated in my previous post) by default. As soon as the market began segmenting, the writing was on the wall unless exports could be secured (and global factors quashed those unfortunately)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Your post makes sense to me, But I think some get blinded by their own preferences.

It wouldn't matter how many stats you put in front of them. to them the AU is god.

sounds very much like the Tempted character

I'm not defending the AU Falcon, I'm defending common sense. While the sales chart illustrates Falcons inconsistency in sales volume relative to Commodore (97-02) it also illustrates just how consistent overall Falcadore sales were irrespective of this.

commodorenutt · 06-04-2016, 11:34 PM

I agree that the styling was a small contributing factor. At the time, I was working for a company that had significant manufacturing dedicated to manufacturing components for Ford and Holden.

One of the supposed "in the know" guys at the time claimed the styling was to try to link it more with the US styling, and head towards a global face. That seemed to work OK with UK Fords in the late 80s, and our EA26, as well as the local Laser, but what was the AU supposed to look like it was related to? The Taurus, and the Cougar were really the only cars that bore a resemblance, and the AU trumped them both dramatically in the looks department (not that it was much of a contest). The higher bonnet of the AU luxury models (carried into the updates) wasn't so bad, but the bread slicer grille & dipped bonnet of the Forte was terrible.

Most of the guys in the company at the time, with a car in their package, were only entitled to base model cars. The VT Exec was on-par with the AU Forte as far as equipment, and the engine was a nicer drive than the GMH V6, but a number of our guys who were lifelong Ford guys switched camps because they couldn't stand the expansive 'blobs' of plastic across the dash & door trims, and hated the base-spec styling. The only thing they could have done worse is put the black taxi-spec bumpers on the Forte - that would have topped it right off.

So that's why I agree that the styling is a contributing factor to people moving away from the AU (but only if they went into a Commodore). People were used to "nice but borderline bland" styling of the Falcon, and liked it. The XF was one of the most pleasant front "face" styling jobs this country saw. The EA & EB were just as good, if not marginally nicer again in EB & ED. EF boosted that further - it's one of the nicest 4-door sedan designs ever produced, and one of the most cohesive front-end designs. EL was marginally changed on the front of the base models (for the worse) but nothing could have prepared people for the shock of the AU.

All new models tend to have a spike in sales figures, as people hold out to buy the new model, and some of the BA jump could well be from that, but I think the BA also won a number of fleet guys back to the blue oval.

We used to joke that AU = Absolutely Ugly, BA = Bloody Amazing (fix up), BF = Bloody Fantastic, and FG = F'ing Grouse!

That being said, I had an AUII Futura as a company car for a while, and thinking back over all my company cars, that AU was one of the best I had. I once swore I could never give an AU praise, but it was a good car.

malazn mafia · 07-04-2016, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

Yes, I'm aware you believe it was one contributing factor, and yes you never said anything bad about driveline or reliability.

The sales chart demonstrates that the total volume of Falcons and Commodores sold during the AU era didn't drop, buyers merely swapped camps. It wasn't until the mid 00's that buyers started to desert the big sedans. Think Falcadore vs everything else rather than Ford v Holden.

Speaking of numbers, even in the face of the dramatic drop in (AU) Falcon sales (81,000 in it's first full year down to 69,000 in it's last full year) Fomoco still approved a billion dollars for Ford Aus to develop BA Falcon and SX Territory. This was a *massive commitment* considering the VT/VX Commodore sold 95,000 and 85,000 in the same years. They did so because the volume was still there (as I stated in my previous post) by default. As soon as the market began segmenting, the writing was on the wall unless exports could be secured (and global factors quashed those unfortunately)

I'm not defending the AU Falcon, I'm defending common sense. While the sales chart illustrates Falcons inconsistency in sales volume relative to Commodore (97-02) it also illustrates just how consistent overall Falcadore sales were irrespective of this.

What were the sales stats for the two other Japanese sedans (Magna and Camry) over the same period? There seem to be an awfully large amount of the boring boxcar 97-01 Camry on the road today and they seemed to move a fair few more units of the 2002/2005 facelift. Magnas from 96-06 also seem to be everywhere .

**DFB FGXR6** · 07-04-2016, 06:15 PM

In the lead up to the AU release, Ford were desperately trying to keep the volume of the old EL up against an shiny new VT Commodore. Prices were slashed, EL Gli sedans with auto were being flogged cheap and this burnt many fleet buyers via poorer than usual resale.

This and with questionable styling, poor interior presentation and equipment shortfalls, fleets simply went across to Holden.

BFGasUte · 07-04-2016, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

In the lead up to the AU release, Ford were desperately trying to keep the volume of the old EL up against an shiny new VT Commodore. Prices were slashed, EL Gli sedans with auto were being flogged cheap and this burnt many fleet buyers via poorer than usual resale.

This and with questionable styling, poor interior presentation and equipment shortfalls, fleets simply went across to Holden.

Hello,

IIRC an EL was worth more than an AU second hand. Most fleets stay with a brand for many reasons, a company I worked for had Falcons because Ford was a customer. The AU styling was poor, otherwise they were far better than the same era Holden. Yank thinking doest work in Aus, otherwise we would still have " woody " wagons. Falcons have only ever had 2 main issues, ball joints on the early ones and head gaskets on the E series. Holden have had no end of dud Cars. I always like to think of how many Holdens have ( and used to race with ) Ford parts.

TRAU BLAU · 08-04-2016, 02:08 PM

The Falcon 6's have got spirit!When looking for a replacement for the XF I was looking for either a BA or BF because of the later technology.But am very happy with the AU SR Wag I ended up with.

Dezza · 08-04-2016, 05:28 PM

It's true that since the AU, the Falcon has struggled to find favour with the buyers. The AU was a brilliant car, let down by a weird looking body. It's hard to find an AU or ex-AU owner that hasn't been happy with their cars. They had bulletproof mechanicals, but people just couldn't look past that unique styling.

The BA bought it fairly close in sales to the VY Commodore, but it should have thrashed it! The BA was miles ahead of the VY with a far better interior, far more cohesive styling, brilliant engines, and the list goes on... but besides a couple of months, the VY still consistently outsold it. The FG was about 2 years later than the VE, and that hurt too. The BFII was a great car but was fighting with one arm tied behind it's back against the far more modern VE.

The FG is seriously underrated. The fact many people refer to it as a "facelift" of the BF suggests that they could have been a lot bolder with the design change, and that has surely hampered sales. The design was clearly evolutionary, but personally I find they look far more modern with smoother sides, and a tough front end. They are a great drivers car. The FG-X builds on this, and is known to have some of the best engines ever offered in an Australian car. Just a shame the general public don't care unless it has self-park, radar guided cruise, blindspot alerts etc.

roddy1960 · 08-04-2016, 07:05 PM

G'day AGAIN ..on a subject dear to my heart..AU ...People were hoodwinked by the most demonstrative journo's ..I remember it well...They crucified the AU primarily on it's 'out there looks'.. Here's the thing..the VT Commodore turned out to be an okay but underwhelming car..The AU in comparison ,has got a real admiration society..me included..The worm has turned....The AU has justifiably earned it..Such a beaut engine..totally reliable transmission , surefooted handling and bloody tough..I ought to know..I'm a long term owner...the reason I'm a long term owner is based on reliability..Another redeeming feature on AU's...They dress up a treat..Here's an example and read the comments as you watch from a former AU Hater...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G90krrbHpw This is worth watching and is a testament to my point..call this ugly and then book an eye test at OPSM.or show me a VT commy that looks this cool ..Cheers Rod

Highway star · 08-04-2016, 07:17 PM

My old man was a die hard Ford man, I remember him vividly saying the new AU looked like a squashed cockroach. I ended up waiting for a good EL and then the BA , both great cars. I guess deep down the old man's point of view kept me from owning the AU .

roddy1960 · 08-04-2016, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highway star

My old man was a die hard Ford man, I remember him vividly saying the new AU looked like a squashed cockroach. I ended up waiting for a good EL and then the BA , both great cars. I guess deep down the old man's point of view kept me from owning the AU .

G'day In Tassie we have a tourism campaign called Go Behind The Scenery..It tells and showcases Tasmania's less known attractions ..other than the usual fare..This kind of sums up the AU Falcon..If you do choose to 'go behind the scenery' you'll find a genuine gem of a car..I love my FG XR6 but I am equally happy to keep my dear old bird..Not to get too sentimental about it but this car is the ONLY car that I have never wanted to part with , seems disrespectful to even contemplate it...ONE DAY..I want to re lick the fading but not peeling silver paint fix the clock back light and touch up a few specks of rust in the boot lid under the number plate...Not bad for 15 plus years..Cheers Rod...

cycle myth · 08-04-2016, 08:39 PM

There are many reasons why Falcon sales have gone the way they have.

The AU would be a material one and would make a great case study.

BFGasUte · 08-04-2016, 08:46 PM

Hello,

It was Ford US that dictated the styling. Even without the DOHC engine, if the AU looked like the BA it would have flogged the Commode. The engine would run rich / cool if it lost water. More than made up for the rep. of the OHC E series.

damo76 · 08-04-2016, 08:52 PM

Stuff the falcon, after the xd they were crap.. i want a mustang or any other american ford.

Vesper Martini · 11-04-2016, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Another redeeming feature on AU's...They dress up a treat..Here's an example and read the comments as you watch from a former AU Hater...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G90krrbHpw This is worth watching and is a testament to my point..call this ugly and then book an eye test at OPSM.or show me a VT commy that looks this cool ..Cheers Rod

Subjective again, but IMO I think they made it worse.
the body kit is overkill and the HSV commodores of that erra looked way better than the Fords.

Besides it matters not what people are doing with a 15 year old car to actual, new car sales.

DanielXR8 · 12-04-2016, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

I don't think the au had anything to do with falcons demise I mean lets say the au never existed and we went straight to ba do you really think falcon would be selling heaps at the moment, I highly doubt it. Falcon died because people changed, the market changed, both ford and holden are dead and there is way more important things to blame it on than a car from 5 models ago that had questionable looks. IMO

Well I can only use my personal experience. I hung on to my EL through all the AU revisions. Was an early buyer for BA.

I also remember being pulled over at the Sydney Motor show by Ford staff (not dealers) and asked if the AU and a half (the egg crate grill) would change my opinion of the car enough to buy it. I was also asked how I felt about the Tickford Falcons. They were clearly pretty panicked at the reception and sales of the car at that point.

Mechanically I do think the AU was a better car, but it was awful as a styling exercise. Outside it was all yank Taurus looking and inside the gap between the base model and Fairmont was so huge, you felt like a second class citizen if you could only afford the GLi or Futura. The base cars were stripper models and you were under no illusions about it. Didn't help that interior material quality dropped inside over EL either.

It did harm Falcon and really its revisionist history to say it didn't.

BA wasn't perfect, with some cheap trim pieces, but it was styled a heck of a lot better. Might be difficult to think now, but it was a revelation when it came out and instantly dated the then current Commodore. Of course it was a mechanically compromised car with too many faults. Ford added the style and took out the AU's reliability. I have always said BA got customers back into a Ford and then reminded them why they had left in the first place. Combine that with the AU and well, it wasnt helping Ford's cause.

FG came along with some nice styling, more cost cutting and its own list of faults. By that point Ford needed to be a winner out of the gate, not another work in progress Falcon that needed a few years to get right. The market was well and truly over that from Ford by that point.

SumoDog68 · 13-04-2016, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

What were the sales stats for the two other Japanese sedans (Magna and Camry) over the same period? There seem to be an awfully large amount of the boring boxcar 97-01 Camry on the road today and they seemed to move a fair few more units of the 2002/2005 facelift. Magnas from 96-06 also seem to be everywhere .

Both Magna and Camry were built in Australia and Camry still is.Difference being that parent multinational is based in Japan and less local engineering input (local content on par with Falcon and Commodore)
AU was a step in the wrong direction. I worked for a major supplier at that time and volumes have dropped significantly. We used to run 3 shifts - at AU time night shift was wound down. and afternoon shift halved. Climate has changed into one of downsizing and questions about viability and survival. AU was begging of the end. Numbers recovered with BA/BF but haven't returned to pre AU levels. AU came at the time of change in the market and needed to be great.
There seems to be lots of passion for AU from their owners. I respect that but reality is AU was a disaster for Ford AU. My workmates called it a sad car (sad face boot line). Some people think Taurus looks great too....
Knowing what we know now (i know easy to be a general after the battle) Ford Au should of gone more towards smaller , more fun to drive car. Live axle or even leaf springs on the wagons are not conductive to good ride and handling. In reality Ford AU probably had not much choice as they had their architecture locked in - budget could not support engine change or body change so they soldiered on with what they had in direction they were guided to follow.
Towing and hauling guys have already started their move to SUVs and Dual cabs . Sedans and wagons should be about driving fun.

Angeldust · 16-04-2016, 09:12 AM

to me it wasn't so much that the AU looked so ugly back in those times. It was more so that the VT just looked so damn good compared to everything that was on the market and/or came before it.

XR Martin · 16-04-2016, 09:44 AM

Do people forget most Falcon and Commodore sales over the years were fleet?
Ford wanted to get out of the fleet market when the AU came out as during the E-series era they were making a profit of as little as $50 a car in some cases.
So they moved away from such uneconomical contracts with the AU which is the reason for the bulk of reduced sales. Love to see the private sales E-series vs AU...I doubt there would much difference, and if anything the AU would probably be infront due to the success of the XR models - most of which were privately bought.

Holden with the VT were also was ruthless with its fleet marketing. For one the VT wagon was designed around getting the Telstra contract as up until that point they only bought Fords.
Holden were happy for Ford to have the Taxi market, as that always gave Falcon a poor image. Holden went for the Police market instead, which is seen in a much more positive light by the public.

commodorenutt · 16-04-2016, 11:38 PM

Telstra/Telecom didn't exclusively use Fords prior to VT.
They used plenty of earlier Commodore wagons prior to the VT.
Holden even painted them in corporate colours in the 80s!
My neighbour who was a tech back when Telecom actually employed them directly even had an 80s Magna wagon, and early 90s Camry as Telecom company cars.
Come to think of it, he never had a Ford wagon during the 20 years they lived next too to us.

And the Taxi market evolved for several reasons - none of them to do with marketing.
Holden & Ford had 6-seat cars in the 70s, and both were common cabs.
When the Commodore was released, it was 5 seat only (until the bench was introduced after the VG ute came on stream in 1990).
By this stage, the XD/XE/XF had given Ford a 10+ year stranglehold on the market, and with the straight 6 considered much more LPG friendly & reliable than the tempremental V6 that Holden offered, Ford maintained the majority of the Taxi market until the laws regarding driver safety cells were introduced, negating any benefit of a front bench (which was rarely seen by that time anyway). Eventually cost factors won out, and many switched to hybrids or maxi-taxi vans.

Ford basically gave Holden the Police HWP work when they dropped the V8 in 82.
However, they supplied thousands of 6 cylinder GD cars, just not HWP/pursuit cars.
Holden had an almost exclusive run with HWP because they continued the V8, and even when it went on a hiatus in early 86, they stockpiled VK V8s to tide them over until the VL Turbo was released 6 months later. Again, in '88 the pattern was repeated, when turbos were stockpiled (and built 3 months past VN introduction) until the V8 returned 8 months later in March 1989, as HWP demanded a performance variant. Ford simply didn't have anything to offer until the return of the V8 in the EB, and the HWP were very quick to pick it back up, with plenty of EF & EL V8s used as HWP.

None of this has anything to do with marketing or image issues - it's simply how it was in the 80s & 90s when local manufacturers had the lion's share of the market, and all Govt levels demanded Aussie cars on their fleets - even the Sigma, Bluebird & Camira in the 80s, and the woeful Pintara/Corsair twins in the 90s. It was the privatisation of so many govt controlled entities, as well as the relaxation of fleet purchasing, that saw fleet sales of Aussie cars plummet, not a decision to turn away from fleets.

Take a look at any ATO, Health Dept, Customs, Fair Trading etc fleet carpark - full of I30, Mazda 3, RAV4, and a myriad of other imports, with the odd locally produced hybrid Camry as a token gesture to Aussie manufacturing. That's what caused fleet sales to drop.

danzvtil · 17-04-2016, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

None of this has anything to do with marketing or image issues - it's simply how it was in the 80s & 90s when local manufacturers had the lion's share of the market, and all Govt levels demanded Aussie cars on their fleets - even the Sigma, Bluebird & Camira in the 80s, and the woeful Pintara/Corsair twins in the 90s. It was the privatisation of so many govt controlled entities, as well as the relaxation of fleet purchasing, that saw fleet sales of Aussie cars plummet, not a decision to turn away from fleets.

Take a look at any ATO, Health Dept, Customs, Fair Trading etc fleet carpark - full of I30, Mazda 3, RAV4, and a myriad of other imports, with the odd locally produced hybrid Camry as a token gesture to Aussie manufacturing. That's what caused fleet sales to drop.

Spot on mate, also in recent years are companies' environmental polices regarding fleets, eg-downsizing from 6 cyl cars to 4 cyl plus shifting of fleets from company owned and financed to novated where the user makes the choice.