Insurance Implications of Retrofitting a Transmission Air/oil Cooler

[aussiblue]

Like most such policies, my insurance policy requires me to notify my insurer of any modifications made to my vehicles and gives the company the option of refusing any claims if I have not advised them of any such modifications.

With this in mind, and having bought a air/oil cooler to fit to my FG XR6 MKII I (not yet fitted) and looking at the vulnerable position it would be in, I contemplated the scenario where someone for example backed into my car in a carpark without me knowing and holed the cooler leading to the transmission failing and wondering if my insurer would cover the damage. In any event, I put this question to my insurer by phone call today.

When I called I was shuffled around a number people and clearly none of them had any idea about what I was talking about or the "milkshake" risk I was trying to mitigate (all insurance clerks rather than car people these days). The bottom line was that their view was that a) I would not be covered for an accident damaging the cooler and thus the transmission, b) any claim even if unrelated to fitting the cooler might be refused on the basis they had not been advised and c) if I advised them of the modification the policy would be cancelled. At the very least they said they would want my car and its mods to be examined by an engineer (at my cost) who could perhaps provide some certification in respect of the modification. I made the call anonymously and although pressured for my details did not provide them. It seemed to make no difference explaining that this modification would have no performance or safety implications (but I guess as they said, strictly speaking that is just my view).

I think I have three options:

a) Writing to the insurer with photographs of the kit I bought and relevant links to this site and some relevant YouTube videos hopefully convincing them that it's all OK and should have no impact on my policy;
b) Sell my air/oil cooler kit and just fit a new factory coolant/oil every 60,000km or 5 years (and perhaps fitting the kit years later when they would then probably have no idea if it was factory or not) ; or
c) Pretend I never had the conversation and proceed with fitting the kit without advising them. After all, they have never refused claims for my vehicles with arguably similar modifications such as retro-fitting thermo fans to cars that came with clutch fans or changing points ignitions systems to electronic ignition. But I guess in the last 20 years the world has changed and has become more rule bound an less DIY car repair and maintenance tolerant (and perhaps insurers have become bigger and more pedantic ****holes too).

I've had the car from new so I can't try the old "it must have been there when I bought it" line.

I also gather some dealers have fitted these kits to customers cars so you would think that gives some sort of implied manufacturer's endorsement of the modification. Has anyone had such a kit fitted by their Ford dealer or did I just imagine that?

I know I am really overthinking this, I should never have called my insurer and I should just go ahead, as I usually have in the past, and worry about it only if and when something goes wrong. What's your view. Has anybody advised their insurer they have fitted a transmission air cooler? Has anyone had a claim refused or a policy cancelled because of this or a similar modification.

[aussiblue]

On further reflection, I have to say, seeing I have been with my insurer since 1972, I always had 4 or more cars insured with them each year and have never had an accident where I was at fault (all the dozen or so accident I had since 1990 have been idiots on mobile phones running into the back of me or pushing another car into the rear of my car while I was stopped at traffic lights, stops signs and giveway signs) I expect that "out of goodwill" the company would not actually refuse any claim I made. Still this might be more of an issue for others hear with different claim records an/or dodgier insurers.

[Cav]

Did I just read that you used the words car insurer and goodwill in the same sentence?

[lra]

I just swapped the Territory to Shannons, and the rep that I spoke to knew exactly what I was on about when I said I had fitted an after-market transmission cooler to avoid a 'milkshake'.
It is noted as a modification on the policy.

[Citroënbender]

Hopefully it hasn’t been put down as an aftermarket intercooler.

Fitting a transmission cooler doesn’t change speed or handling or acceleration, surely it’s proactive maintenance by an owner who uses their vehicle within design limits and maintains it in good/roadworthy condition? Not overly different in context of function/intention to the fitting of “aero” wiper blades in place of original metal framed type.

[Yellow_Festiva]

I wonder if you said nothing would they have ever known??

Sent from my LG-M700 using Tapatalk

[Tonz]

I have been contemplating adding the same, am with RAA insurance, asked them the same Q and was advised, 'although its an added extra, if you get it fitted by an approved repairer and have paperweork to prove this, we would cover it. My mechanic is the local RAA mechanic. so nothing putting me off

[Fed]

I'd advise them on the next policy renewal.

[Vesper Martini]

Do you foresee making an insurance claim relating to the engine or Transmission?

No?

Then don't over complicate things

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

On further reflection, I have to say, seeing I have been with my insurer since 1972

time for a change then. Seriously. My renewal premiums are never as good as I can get by changing insurer and I have zero loyalty to them. Ring around and I'm sure you will find someone who accepts the mod, with no premium increase

[BA-XT]

Can I ask which insurer this is?

Its only a minor modification.... What about people with turbos on there NA 4x4? I had raised suspension, bullbar, extra fuel tank etc. and RACV just said yep all good.

Seems really odd...

[XR Martin]

Why would you even tell them?
They aren't going to refuse you a claim based on a small mod like that. They would have to demonstrate that it was the primary cause of an accident, and that they would have refused insurance to you if they did know about beforehand.
If someone backed into your car and damaged it, it's the third party's responsibility to replace it.

You are way over thinking it.
Worst case deny everything and say the previous owner must of put it there.

I know of someone who had bald tyres, skidded off the road and wrote the car off. Insurance still covered it because the person argued that they aren't a mechanic, they don't know what tyres are meant to look like, and the car had been recently serviced.

[aussiblue]

Why would you even tell them?

It's a condition of the policy both the detailed one and plain english guide they give you.

Worst case deny everything and say the previous owner must of put it there.

As I said:

I've had the car from new so I can't try the old "it must have been there when I bought it" line.

[Bossxr8]

Why would you even mention it. They would never in one million years deny a claim because of a trans cooler.

[Optional]

I have investigated a lot of claims on behalf of insurers, not car insurance but at times involving the product liability angle of claims.

In the scenario you describe where the non-declared after market product was damaged and caused the transmission to fail, the insurer could deny that claim. But realistically they would expect to possibly lose that if challenged in a court, so if you get a lazy claims officer dealing with it, you'll get approved usually anyway.

If the Transmission failed, they would have no leg to stand on denying your claim due to an undeclared transmission cooler alone. They would have to show the cooler was of faulty design or faulty fitting for that to have any effect.

And if they did decide that was an issue, you would still be paid, but the insurance would try to claim part of their costs from the manufacturer and/or fitter. (that's where I would come in)

[aussiblue]

If someone backed into your car and damaged it, it's the third party's responsibility to replace it.

From my observation in such car park incidents the offenders usually do a runners so getting details of the driver and their insurer becomes a little difficult.

[Citroënbender]

No dash cam with parking mode? I’m surprised; you’re quite a thorough person by nature.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Optional

I have investigated a lot of claims on behalf of insurers, not car insurance but at times involving the product liability angle of claims.

In the scenario you describe where the non-declared after market product was damaged and caused the transmission to fail, the insurer could deny that claim. But realistically they would expect to possibly lose that if challenged in a court, so if you get a lazy claims officer dealing with it, you'll get approved usually anyway.

If the Transmission failed, they would have no leg to stand on denying your claim due to an undeclared transmission cooler alone. They would have to show the cooler was of faulty design or faulty fitting for that to have any effect.

And if they did decide that was an issue, you would still be paid, but the insurance would try to claim part of their costs from the manufacturer and/or fitter. (that's where I would come in)

I didn't realise that Comprehensive insurance covered the driveline

[dunga]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

I didn't realise that Comprehensive insurance covered the driveline

I would like to know also so I can get insurance to fix my ranger transmission when it craps itself again

[aussiblue]

didn't realise that Comprehensive insurance covered the driveline

Of course it does when it is damaged in an accident such as a collision or as the result of an accident per the scenario I described. But a modified drivetrain without notification to the insurer can also invalid any insurance policy.

No dash cam with parking mode? I’m surprised; you’re quite a thorough person by nature.

Yes; but it's not infallible any if the other person is not insured and a "man of straw" or the car is stolen you are still reliant on your own insurer. Or theysmash as window and rip of the dashcam before doing a runner.

[aussiblue]

BTW I am going with my third option. The only reason I pursued an inquiry with the insurer was that the plain English pamphlet came in with my renewal this week and one of the dot points was the need to advise the insurer of any mechanical or other vehicle modifications.

[Optional]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

I didn't realise that Comprehensive insurance covered the driveline

You're right in the case of a failed transmission not part of an actual accident and comprehensive. So my comment probably wasn't that relevant.

Was mostly trying to help him understand how an insurance company might look at things like this generally.

[asagaai]

People are confusing the modification being a cause of the accident.

It is like this. You fit the transmission aftermarket cooler. You do not tell the insurer.

You at fault wipe out your car and a $500,000 Ferrari and the transmission cooler not involved in causing the accident. The Insurer notes aftermarket cooler in post accident investigation . If under their underwriting policies the Insurer would never have insured a car with a aftermarket transmission cooler and their business underwriting procedures prove this then at law they can deny indemnity under the policy.

Far better off disclosing such a vanilla mod and if insurer refuses to note on policy pull the insurance and find a reasonable insurer who will note cooler as a minor mechanical mod on the policy.

People talk about the mod causing or being involved in the occurance event for it to relevant. This is relevant to a negligence or tort claim, but is not relevant in
your contract claim under the policy in a claim against your insurer.

Another thing I am aware of a case where a guy was driving a crappy car with bald tyres and it crashed and took out a Mercedes. The insurer refused to indemnify saying it was a term that the car be roadworthy and had they been asked to insure a car with bald tyres they would have refused.

It is simple contract law with duty of disclosures under the Insurance Contracts Act and utmost duty of good faith obligations.

[lra]

Modifications and insurance coverage are something that most drivers do not think about when doing a mod.
Even something as simple as fitting a sports muffler can void your policy, IF the company wants to be pedantic and difficult. Most people will say that they have done that and not had a problem with a claim, so situation is BS. Correct, but the insurer could, if it was in the fine print, and they wanted to .
I am way past ‘hotting up’ my cars from standard, so my mods are wheels, cooler, towbars and ute hard lid and liner, all of which are noted on my policies.
As for the ute hard lid, that is definitely not a performance enhancing modification, but if I return to the car park and find that it is missing, along with my wheels, the insurer can’t deny that they were not covered.

[BENT_8]

Plenty of good advice, but personally I can't think of any good reason why an accident with sufficient force to push the bar etc. In far enough to damage a cooler mounted In front of the radiator, wouldn't have you thoroughly inspecting for damage to the cooler, or why you'd be driving away with that much damage anyway.
I'd be saying nothing and if hit with that much force I'd be calling my insurer and sending it off on a flatbed for repair.

[aussiblue]

Plenty of good advice, but personally I can't think of any good reason why an accident with sufficient force to push the bar etc. In far enough to damage a cooler mounted In front of the radiator, wouldn't have you thoroughly inspecting for damage to the cooler,

Many years ago someone with I suspect a long towbar tongue but no ball or something similar, backed into and punched a small hole through the black plastic grill of my LC Lancer and holed the radiator while my car was parked in a car park (all day parking while I was at work). There were no obvious signs when I returned to the vehicle as the small broken piece of black plastic grill was pushed in behind the grill and it didn't start leaking coolant until the cooling system built up pressure (fortunately the radiator leak was small and I noticed the temp gauge go slightly up and was able to detect the issue when I got home). I had my suspicions about another vehicle that also sometimes parked there and had a tow tongue of the right height but I could not prove a thing and the driver may not even have realised what she had done. Something similar could happen with the FG trans cooler without it being noticed; it has a similar black plastic grill to the LC Lancer where small punch holes may not be so readily evident at a cursory glance. Yes; I would have to be very unlucky to have this happen again.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Many years ago someone with I suspect a long towbar tongue but no ball or something similar, backed into and punched a small hole through the black plastic grill of my LC Lancer and holed the radiator while my car was parked in a car park (all day parking while I was at work). There were no obvious signs when I returned to the vehicle as the small broken piece of black plastic grill was pushed in behind the grill and it didn't start leaking coolant until the cooling system built up pressure (fortunately the radiator leak was small and I noticed the temp gauge go slightly up and was able to detect the issue when I got home). I had my suspicions about another vehicle that also sometimes parked there and had a tow tongue of the right height but I could not prove a thing and the driver may not even have realised what she had done. Something similar could happen with the FG trans cooler without it being noticed; it has a similar black plastic grill to the LC Lancer where small punch holes may not be so readily evident at a cursory glance. Yes; I would have to be very unlucky to have this happen again.

Totally agreed, under the right circumstances there's obviously a scenario where damage could be done which you wouldn't notice, but the odds are very slim.

Chances are you'd smell the trans fluid anyway, its not like water or coolant which would evaporate, trans fluid has a distinct smell and id say you'd smell/see it or notice the box start to slip long before you did irreversible damage to it and if it we're only a slight leak you'd need to do a considerable journey before you lost enough to notice.

Under those circumstances you probably wouldn't claim it on your insurance as the excess would be greater than the grill/cooler.

When I had one fitted to my BF3 it began leaking soon after as one of the lines weren't tightened up fully, it blew back onto the radiator which being hot and the fluid exposed, gave off a smell I noticed straight away.