Iranians talk AU$3/L for petrol

[ltd]

Which two world wars?

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by ltd

Which two world wars?

Iraq circa 1990 and 2003 ..

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ltd

Which two world wars?

World war one and world war two.

Do a bit of research.

Why do you think Hitler invaded africa and eastern europe?
Why do you think Japan attacked the United States?
Do you really think WW1 started because some trumped up Arch Duke was killed?

Oil and resourses but mainly oil.

Or do you believe the polticly correct view that Hitler, Kaiser Wilhelm & Hirahito were just bad men and our leaders were good guys........

[davocol]

In fairness, that is majorly simplifying things, Hitler wasn't exactly an angel. I am not sure how almost wiping out a whole race contributed to his "quest for oil" There were far more factors than just oil.

Originally Posted by flappist

World war one and world war two.

Do a bit of research.

Why do you think Hitler invaded africa and eastern europe?
Why do you think Japan attacked the United States?
Do you really think WW1 started because some trumped up Arch Duke was killed?

Oil and resourses but mainly oil.

Or do you believe the polticly correct view that Hitler, Kaiser Wilhelm & Hirahito were just bad men and our leaders were good guys........

[MickyB]

Originally Posted by flappist

World war one and world war two.

Do a bit of research.

Why do you think Hitler invaded africa and eastern europe?
Why do you think Japan attacked the United States?
Do you really think WW1 started because some trumped up Arch Duke was killed?

Oil and resourses but mainly oil.

Or do you believe the polticly correct view that Hitler, Kaiser Wilhelm & Hirahito were just bad men and our leaders were good guys........

I didn't realise the Jews of Germany, Poland and other areas of Europe were in control of the oil stocks. Oil may have played a part in WWII, but you can't say it started solely due to oil.

On another note, if the US and China do gain control of Iran's oil fields, would this mean the price would not hit $3 a litre, or would the US fund the costs of their offensives by overcharging everyone besides themselves and jacking up the price anyway?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by davocol

In fairness, that is majorly simplifying things, Hitler wasn't exactly an angel. I am not sure how almost wiping out a whole race contributed to his "quest for oil" There were far more factors than just oil.

Ah yes he and his group of zealots NEARLY wiped out a people whereas WE ACTUALLY DID wipe out an entire race, the Tasmanian Aboriginal, does that make us worse than Hitler?

Originally Posted by mickyb

I didn't realise the Jews of Germany, Poland and other areas of Europe were in control of the oil stocks. Oil may have played a part in WWII, but you can't say it started solely due to oil.

World War 2 was not just a group of Germans who murdered a few million Jewish civilians despite what you see on TV. There were no Jews in North Africa but plenty of Nazis and Italians.
The Japanese killed many Chinese, Islanders, Phillipinos, Thais, Papuans, Malays, Burmese and quite a few of us.

Once again do a bit of research.

The Nazi party came to power with the promise of rebuilding Germany after the destruction and subsequent looting AFTER the end of WW1. The people backed them because they had nothing except poverty and disease.
They needed resourses to do this rebuilding. They were blocked by other countries, that is those who won WW1, us included so they just went and took what they needed.

http://www.rpfuller.com/gcse/history/6.html

Japan did the same. USA blocked their oil supplies with embargoes so Japan tried to destroy the US Pacific fleet with the raid on Pearl Harbour thereby breaking the embargo. It didn't work out with the result they wanted.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/e...r/pearlhbr.htm

This is oversymplifying the situation at that time quite a bit but like evey war in the history of mankind, xenophobia, greed and lust for power are the key ingredients.

There was no Jewish holocaust in WW1 just the same old story of greed & xenophobia except with different victims......

[MickyB]

Flappist I realise the the USA blocked the Japanese oil supplies, and I realise that Northern Africa was a strategic target for the Germans, I'm just saying that it doesn't do justice to those who felt the full brunt of the Holocaust to say it was solely due to oil sanctions and the like, Germany was experiencing hyperinflation due to a number of causes, and one the scapegoats were the jews.
I'm not Jewish BTW

This still doesn't answer my previous question about what the US will do the price of oil.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by MickyB

Flappist I realise the the USA blocked the Japanese oil supplies, and I realise that Northern Africa was a strategic target for the Germans, I'm just saying that it doesn't do justice to those who felt the full brunt of the Holocaust to say it was solely due to oil sanctions and the like, Germany was experiencing hyperinflation due to a number of causes, and one the scapegoats were the jews.
I'm not Jewish BTW

Yes I am not in any way diminishing the horror of the 31,221,400 innocent civilians, 5,754,300 of whom were Jews, killed during that war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_W...ombined_totals

My original statement was that the wars were STARTED over resourses mainly oil. The attrocities were going on well before the wars started and were basicly ignored by the rest of the world. Hitler was supported by USA, UK and most other democracies. The 1936 olympics were even held in Berlin. It was not until resourses were threatened i.e. Poland was invaded that war was actually declared and even then USA did not join in until almost two years later.

Attrocities still go on today, Kurds in Iraq for example. You don't think Sadam was defeated to save them now do you?

Originally Posted by MickyB

This still doesn't answer my previous question about what the US will do the price of oil.

I have no idea either other than it will be what USA thinks is best for USA.

[anto]

ww1 was not fought over oil, nor was it started by the Germans. In fact the Germans pleaded with the Austro/Hungarians not to invade Serbia because they knew to well the consequences which would lead to a continental war. The origins of WW1 which in turn lead to WW2 were a consequence of the disputed territory of Bosnia and between Serbia and the Austro/Hungarian Empire. Once the fighting started allies of individual nations fell in line,..hey lets have a war.
You are correct however in saying that Japans war with the USA was based on their need for more natural resources such as oil.

[The Monty]

Flappist, you hit the bloody nail on the head. I hate when people start raving on about WW2 and "Hitler", and name only him as being a baddy. People come in half c*cked with useless info, trying to say what a villian he was. In my eyes, any leader in a war is a villian as they ALL kill A SHEDLOAD of people. Its pretty bad when people strat pointing there fingers at only one party involved. Besides, anyone ever heard of Stalin?

[telstar1]

we had cheaper feul before g w bush went in to iraq to get saddam and when he did the price of oil was to supposed to come down. and why cant little johnny drop off some of the tax on oil?

[davocol]

A completely different example, one was simply a battle for new land.
Japan wanted to break the embargo to continue the war not simply win it. I don't consider doing a few searches in google researching. You have also mentioned your self there were more factors than just oil, xenophobia and also the struggle for power. I will agree to disagree. Let's get back on topic.

[ltd]

flappist, I only asked because I thought you might have been a tree hugging, dope smoking, morally bankrupt hippie of a greenie who likened America to being the evil scaremongers of the world by invading Iraq. (See C0ckfag Mountain star heath Ledger)

As for WW2, I am somewhat of a historian and I understand your point of view however, another poster has painted Hitler as not the only villain (In some bizarre attempt to implicate the allies); I don't believe the allied forces had an SS, Gestapo and other organisation’s that specialised in torture for information. Additionally, I do believe that there was such a thing called "The Geneva Convention" which had certain rules and guidelines to basically protect soldiers and civilians from wanton acts of depravity and cruelty. By in large both sides tried to adhere to it however one frequently went outside the margins. Wasn't this one of the reasons for the Nuremberg trials after the war?

Only one side had a Genocidal policy in WW2, and it wasn't us. Frankly I don't believe Germans to be evil, as quite a number of high ranking officials rejected Hitlers ideas and in some case orders. (Schindler for example). Particularly when you take into account how Hitlers untreated syphilis and the resultant madness that ensued; as one German Historian puts it, "Hitlers hatred of the Jews had a lot to do with his self loathing for proclivities with young Jewish boys". In a nutshell, Hitler would have captured Jewish boys sent to his castle (can't remember the name of the top of my head), have his way with them and then shoot them as remorse set in.
Hitler was a villain, and his own senior officers thought he was mad too.
Of course, only the white supremacists and Neo Nazi jerkwads try and paint him as a saint.

[Dazza XLT]

We pay $1.30 here at the best of times, let alone around Easter!!!
Premium is $1.40 here at the moment.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ltd

flappist, I only asked because I thought you might have been a tree hugging, dope smoking, morally bankrupt hippie of a greenie who likened America to being the evil scaremongers of the world by invading Iraq. (See C0ckfag Mountain star heath Ledger)

No I do am not Saab 340 endorsed..... j/k

I just get a bit burred up when half truths and agenda driven dogma are presented as "usassailable facts".

As I once represented Australia at the NFA nationals (defacto world machine gun shooting championships) in Knob Creek Kentucky, I am fairly sure that I don't fit your suspected profile.

[ltd]

my humble apologies flappist, I get riled every time I hear someone even hint at Iraq being about oil. Especially when the only benefit to the usa, george bush and any other group that the left wants to criricise has been lifting consumers of excess cash at the bowser, and turning more voters against W
Again refer to Heath Ledger at the front of the Sydney Protest in 2003. Scumbag c0ckfag mountain a55ed pu55y.

[SB076]

Without knowing what I am talking about, but if fuel (Petrol) did reach $3 a litre, would other alternatives become available, I remember watching something on tv about metho/ethenal powered cars. I also read a brief article today on Biodiesel (made using palm crude oil) Just curious.

[xfalconz]

Originally Posted by ltd

my humble apologies flappist, I get riled every time I hear someone even hint at Iraq being about oil. Especially when the only benefit to the usa, george bush and any other group that the left wants to criricise has been lifting consumers of excess cash at the bowser, and turning more voters against W
Again refer to Heath Ledger at the front of the Sydney Protest in 2003. Scumbag c0ckfag mountain a55ed pu55y.

Im sure Iraq was about Weapons of mass destruction, or was that liberation hold on maybe it was democracy good ole W himself doesnt know anymore.
I wont mention oil..
Anyway back on topic petrol is mor expensive but its nothing to do with Iraq, just fuel companies having a captive audience and taking advantage of it.
Arent we supposed to have fairly cheap fuel as compared to Britain and USA anyway?

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by xfalconz

Anyway back on topic petrol is mor expensive but its nothing to do with Iraq, just fuel companies having a captive audience and taking advantage of it.
Arent we supposed to have fairly cheap fuel as compared to Britain and USA anyway?

It's really not even that complicated.

Supply is limited, both for oil (available excess production is very low, really only S.Arabia which has extra production up its sleeve within OPEC and even that is slim) and for refined petrol (as an example, the USA has not built a new refinery since the 70s - Australia's have been closed one by one). Huricane Katrina/Rita were outstanding examples that despite the fact you can pump 90 million barrles of oil from the ground every day, it doesnt matter because when refineries are knocked out of action you cant do anything with that oil...

Demand for oil/petrol grows at a frightening pace whilst supply walks a thin line...

Its a recipe for high prices.

[mik]

Originally Posted by ltd

my humble apologies flappist, I get riled every time I hear someone even hint at Iraq being about oil. Especially when the only benefit to the usa, george bush and any other group that the left wants to criricise has been lifting consumers of excess cash at the bowser, and turning more voters against W
Again refer to Heath Ledger at the front of the Sydney Protest in 2003. Scumbag c0ckfag mountain a55ed pu55y.

i`ll probably get shot down here, but i was told that george bush was partners in in caltex oil company with osama bin laden and were best mates before they had a falling out, anyone know if this is true or not????

[xfalconz]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

It's really not even that complicated.

Supply is limited, both for oil (available excess production is very low, really only S.Arabia which has extra production up its sleeve within OPEC and even that is slim) and for refined petrol (as an example, the USA has not built a new refinery since the 70s - Australia's have been closed one by one). Huricane Katrina/Rita were outstanding examples that despite the fact you can pump 90 million barrles of oil from the ground every day, it doesnt matter because when refineries are knocked out of action you cant do anything with that oil...

Demand for oil/petrol grows at a frightening pace whilst supply walks a thin line...

Its a recipe for high prices.

So in a nutshell this s^^t going on in Iraq and the possibility of trouble in Iran do have a bearing on world oil prices?
Iraqs oil fields running at no where near full capacity and Iran being threatened hardly makes them want to help out!

[rwoodhams]

The only way I got around the cost of fuel was to package my Fuel up with the Typhoon. So in a way, I deal with it in the sence I get a 48.5% discount.

It cost me shy on 90 bucks to fill her, but after the "tax" benifit, it only cost me around 45 bucks (thanks mr howard...). But if it gets to$3 a litre, then the benefit wont help much.

I kind of understand why its increased so much, plain old profiterring. But I have heard the oil companies in Australia have too much power. I remember hearing in WA that the Govt was going to put the hard word on BP, and BP threatened to shut up shop if they did... So Govt did nothing.

Makes me angry, but these companies are here to make money. They dont give a toss, they'll ride this train until the last minutes and then wala... The alternatives will arrive. Just like Microsoft did with Windows 95, they kept Windows 3.1 going and going.. They milked that cow. Damn oil companies will do the same.

Mark my words, when the cost of fuel is so high that the number of people actually buying it no longer meets the required revenue targets, they'll drop all this new ИИИИ on us like that - nothing motivates a compant like partner/stockholder profit.

Dont believe any of the crap they say about viability. Its all disinformation. They are all in it for the dollars, they dont give a toss about the environment or us other than the $$$. The bastards have known about this for decades, and they've bought/murdered/stolen the independant technologies for alternatives to protect there business. Are they really that stupid?...Of course not - if they can get away with it they will do it... and they have.

Wha... thats my rant.. I feel better now.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by xfalconz

So in a nutshell this s^^t going on in Iraq and the possibility of trouble in Iran do have a bearing on world oil prices?

Pretty much. Raises questions over supply, people start buying up on future contracts which has the effect of inflating demand, therefore price.

kind of understand why its increased so much, plain old profiterring. But I have heard the oil companies in Australia have too much power. I remember hearing in WA that the Govt was going to put the hard word on BP, and BP threatened to shut up shop if they did... So Govt did nothing.

Makes me angry, but these companies are here to make money. They dont give a toss, they'll ride this train until the last minutes and then wala... The alternatives will arrive. Just like Microsoft did with Windows 95, they kept Windows 3.1 going and going.. They milked that cow. Damn oil companies will do the same.

A part of me hopes you are correct - it really does. If the oil companies can snap their fingers and have alternative energies at the ready than there may be some hope for the human race. Dont count on it tho.

Your analogy to microsoft is a little misguided. That was software development, and a company has a reasonable amount of control over it. An oil company cant snap its fingers and make alternative energy sources viable - they are bound by the laws of physics and chemistry just like the rest of us. No amount of money in the world can overcome a physical impossibility.

Many governments in australia have leant on oil companies over the years. But these are not australian companies. They are entitled to take their bat and ball and go home. That's not something governments can control.

[Steffo]

If petrol gets to $3/litre I'm going to buy a diesel and fuel it on oil from fish & chips shops. They give it to you free (they'd have to pay to rid themselves of it otherwise). Filter it through, mix in a small amount of acetone and you're done.

[rwoodhams]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Your analogy to microsoft is a little misguided. That was software development, and a company has a reasonable amount of control over it. An oil company cant snap its fingers and make alternative energy sources viable - they are bound by the laws of physics and chemistry just like the rest of us. No amount of money in the world can overcome a physical impossibility.

mate, not to have a crack at you...

That assumes the oil companies have not thought about their 5/10/15/20 year plans. Which in all likehood they have actually thought about it. Agreed that immediately they have a challenge, but cmon, you think there really going to leave it to the last minute and go... "opps.. sorry guys, we were so busy raping and pillaging the oil fields, we forgot to develop technologies and delviery mechanisms to sustain our business... we're going broke now... see ya"

I dont think so. I would have it a clear bet that they have there secret labs, working on secret "alternatives" which they've been working on for years and years and years. Hell, even a poorly funded uni student got his GM Ute to go on hydrogen from a bottle of water!! (oil companies may have had him die of "natural causes") They'll have there rapid deployment process's in place. They'll be in cahoots with the car manufactures as well. They'll even have the methods for retro fitting onto existing cars... why develop an alternative when there is no way to use it?.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by rwoodhams

Hell, even a poorly funded uni student got his GM Ute to go on hydrogen from a bottle of water!! (oil companies may have had him die of "natural causes")

Lol - needed thicker aluminium in his alfoil hat

Nah, im not having a dig either - it's all good.

As i mentioned above - all the money in the world wont let you perform miracles. Im sure the oil companies have been spending plenty on alternative energy sources.... but this doesnt guarantee success.

Take a minute to read through this page:

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/SecondPage.html

As it goes through all alternative energy sources and explains the problems faced by each option. I'm sure you'll agree they are some significant hurdles the oil companies need to overcome.

Also on the first page of that piece:

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Index.html

A good explanation as to why turning profits will be the least of any company's concerns....