Porsche v Nissan GT-R cheat claim …settled?

[Falc'man]

Has the war between Porsche and Nissan over Nurburgring times finally been settled?

See below for video of some of the independent testing done.

There was a lot of attention in April when the Nissan GT-R did a lap of the Nurburgring in 7:29.

There was applause and there was also some doubt.

Porsche in particular told carsguide that it could not understand “how this time is possible” and that Nissan must have used non-standard tyres.

Porsche ran its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and said it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April. It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.

Porsche said it took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and clocked the GT-R at 7:54.

The German sports car maker was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.

But Porsche eventually revealed its team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.

The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.

Nissan hit back, saying that its times were valid, and that it could provide evidence – both on video and in the form of the tyres it used.

Now, Drivers Republic in the UK has chimed in, with Ring veteran Chris Harris taking both a Nissan GT-R and a Porsche GT2 around the track.

Both vehicles were stock, except that the limiter was removed from the Nissan and it had Bridgestone tyres rather than the Dunlops used when the car set the 7:29 time.

Which vehicle proved the point? Drivers Republic has offered us their story and the video of their laps.

And they’re happy for you to leave comments here for them to respond to.


http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/mo...claim_settled/

[xurbanx]

Good read, it'll keep me busy during work!

[mik]

I wonder how much track time Nissan devoted to get that time, Nissan would have an arm full of data at what tyre pressure and suspension settings the car responds best to, i cant see the Porche testers going to that trouble to get the best from the Nissan, would Porche have their car set up to its best settings ?

[AUIIForte]

Originally Posted by mik

I wonder how much track time Nissan devoted to get that time, Nissan would have an arm full of data at what tyre pressure and suspension settings the car responds best to, i cant see the Porche testers going to that trouble to get the best from the Nissan, would Porche have their car set up to its best settings ?

You are completely right.

BUT

I thought they tested the cars 'stock'. No modifications, no alterations, no nothing. I mean, I thought they didn't set the cars up for that specific track, they just raced through it with the stock cars?

[vanman_75]

got half way through will read rest tomorrow .good read

[ehast13]

Yeah, thought as much

[Fairlane]

Still raises question. Track wasnt completely dry, which would lend itself to an advantage for the GTR, but you never know. GTR was on Bridgestones as well. The uber electronics of the Nissan saved it time in the technical corners and over the rougher surfaces, but it was consistantly outgunned in faster coreners and in straight line speed.

Personally I think the Nissan time was legit, but cant be set in 'real life', not unless you are some uber Japanese driving god with a gazillion hours of driving GTR's, a complete mastery of Nurburgring, perfect tyre pressures & plenty of time to hone a hot lap.

For the ordinary person id reckon the GT2 would have its wood and if Porsche put as much effort as Nissan did into its hot lap, they could set a faster official time.

Personally id have the GTR in a heartbeat, if i had $150,000 to spend on a new car.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Fairlane

Personally id have the GTR in a heartbeat, if i had $150,000 to spend on a new car.

I thought the same way until I discovered that sitting in the drivers seat basically voids the warranty.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Rodp

I thought the same way until I discovered that sitting in the drivers seat basically voids the warranty.

yeah.. 175K to buy the car.. (maybe 200K now due to the exchange rate?) and another 50K for its first service!

[Rev28K]

The rumour is that Nissan will be removing their aggressive launch control system from future GTRs.

[XWGT]

GT2.......still the king.

Interesting they thought they could get 10-15 seconds out of the GT-R but not the 27 they need to hit Nissans claim. I think Nissan now have to actually show this time being hit or they are forever going to be doubted.

[TZENU]

Very good read....

Would love to see an official side by side cost comparison in servicing and maintaining the two..

[bdave351]

I cant see the riceline fans ever admitting any proof to be true even now that its been show by various sources to be a load of BS...

after all they call it GOD zilla and we all know how much our religous friends arent big on listening to facts

[Fev]

that us a really great article

[RATT]

Great article. To me the GT-R seemed more stable in the videos though.

[PoMmYwOG]

i'd love to see how these cars are on the street drivability wise,i heard the GTR has lots of traction trouble whereas the GT2 is not so bad. Although comparing the look of them in real life, the GT2 looks more like a super car to me as its really fat and low, and great smooth styling, The GTR to me just looks like a kitted up skyline and seems a bit narrow... GTR is awesome BFYB but if i had to choose from either(money was no prob), i'd definitely go the GT2, just looks more like a supercar to me....

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by bdave351

after all they call it GOD zilla and we all know how much our religous friends arent big on listening to facts

I can't see how this helps the thread, and in fact will go a way to offending many people.

The article was a good read, well presented though it probably spanned a few too many pages

GT2 FTW!

[bdave351]

Sorry but all the "GTR iz da king and is the only thing FTW" brigade offend me everyday so when they all go quiet it is time for a laugh!

[Fev]

Originally Posted by RATT

Great article. To me the GT-R seemed more stable in the videos though.

it does weigh a 300 kilo's more then the porsche and i dont think the suspension is as stiff as the GT2

[RS027]

Just heard the Haltech GTR in Australia just blew an engine. And Nissan won't sell'em another donk. They have to return the car to Japan. I think they are going to buy a wreck and get the engine from that though.

[Fev]

it would probably be cheaper lol. i cant believe Nissan wont sell them an engine! weird..
im sure they could source an engine from one of the huge amount of nissan tuners in japan though - although it wouldnt be stock!

[4Vman]

This car is starting to sound like a freakin computer printer..: its cheaper to buy new one than replacement cartridges!

[starkersEB]

I can see why there is the debate seeing as Nissan made these claims. But value for money the Nissan still poos over the Porsche and virtually any car it competes with. Everyone saying that the Porsche is better, I'd have the Porsche etc.. here and in other reviews i think is a stupid comment. Because in reality who is going to be tossing up between a 400k car and a 150k car? They are completely different beasts consumer wise. They are both awesome cars in their own right but thats it in their own right. Just my opinion anyway.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by starkersEB

I can see why there is the debate seeing as Nissan made these claims. But value for money the Nissan still poos over the Porsche and virtually any car it competes with. Everyone saying that the Porsche is better, I'd have the Porsche etc.. here and in other reviews i think is a stupid comment. Because in reality who is going to be tossing up between a 400k car and a 150k car? They are completely different beasts consumer wise. They are both awesome cars in their own right but thats it in their own right. Just my opinion anyway.

But you cant buy the Nissan for $150K... it was estimated to be $175K on road when the dollar was @ $.95AUD... the dollar is low $.60AUD now, so its probably well over 200k now... and that's without the monthly gearbox or "return to Japan for a service" costs..

[starkersEB]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

But you cant buy the Nissan for $150K... it was estimated to be $175K on road when the dollar was @ $.95AUD... the dollar is low $.60AUD now, so its probably well over 200k now... and that's without the monthly gearbox or "return to Japan for a service" costs..

I cant see how a 15-30-50 grand jump really changes my point though really does it? Yes Nissan have a few glitches but how many company's don't when the bring out a brand new car? Ford/FPV for one had gearbox/clutch issues with BA etc..

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

This car is starting to sound like a freakin computer printer..: its cheaper to buy new one than replacement cartridges!

If you get half a tank of petrol on delivery then you could be onto something... :voldar02:

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Rodp

If you get half a tank of petrol on delivery then you could be onto something... :voldar02:

Does that half tank have to be filled in japan first..?

[phillyc]

I was reading just yesterday that Nissan will be getting rid of the launch assist for the 2010 model as it's been found to be too hard on the driveline. The estimate is that the car will be nearly 1s slower to 100kmh...

The other is that Nissan is also refusing some warranty work and saying that damage to the car has been because the VDC or stability control system has been turned off. So will not warrant cars for some failures when this has been disabled.


Considering the car knows when it's on a racetrack, there is a fair chance it logs when what features has been on or off...

PS I'm a huge fan, but it is kind of now sounding like, "we'll build a supercar on the cheap, but when it breaks down, we'll blame the customer."

[bloggs24]

for an interesting read, have a look at the november wheels magazine, they compare the porsche 911 gt2, Nissan GT-R and the FG XR6T.

[4Vman]

Look.. i know ive been hard on it, it is a great car statistically..., but its as fragile as a china vase.. and built to a price.. something that's in total contrast to its competition.
Porsche build the best car they can and charge what it cost them.... Nissan picked a price point AND a performance target and built a car to meet both.. very brave and ambitious.. but ultimately fragile and temperamental.