Q Police Union Speed Cameras ARE Revenue Raising

csv8 · 03-04-2010, 01:54 PM

Covert speed cameras snap 720 motorists on first day of operation

by Robyn Ironside From: The Courier-Mail April 03, 2010 12:00AM 20 c

COVERT speed cameras snapped 720 offenders on their first day of operation in Queensland – a haul described as "significantly" higher than marked vans.

On Thursday, three covert vehicles began snapped speeding motorists at seven sites throughout Brisbane and central Queensland.

Police Minister Neil Roberts said the result was "a significantly higher rate of detection than police would normally see with marked speed cameras".

"It's concerning to see such a high number of motorists are risking their lives and the lives of others," Mr Roberts said.

Covert motorcycles also operated for the first time on Thursday, patrolling the M1 and Gateway motorways, with four speeding fines issued, and eight tickets handed to drivers illegally using mobile phones, Mr Roberts said.

In total, 3371 offences were detected on Queensland roads on the first day of the Easter campaign – 85 more than the same time last year.

They included 88 drink-drivers, one of whom recorded a blood-alcohol reading of 0.368 per cent, or more than seven times the legal limit. The highest speed was 146km/h in a 100km/h zone at Beaudesert, while another driver was clocked at 116km/h in a 60 zone on the Sunshine Coast.

State Traffic Support Branch acting Superintendent Craig Hanlon said the results were disappointing.

"These people put themselves in danger and they put every other road user in danger. It's selfish behaviour on the part of these people," Supt Hanlon said.

"I'm sure people don't go out and intend to injure or kill someone but by doing what they're doing, they're increasing the chances of that happening."

But the Queensland Police Union claims speed cameras are being deliberately located in sites that generate a lot of fines to help justify their existence.

QPU president Ian Leavers said there was never any question the cameras would not succeed.

"All the sites that get a lot of detections have been taken offline for marked speed camera operations, so they can only be accessed by covert speed cameras," he said.

"Obviously they will be able to create a business case saying how successful they've been because they've been working these high-productivity sites."

A Queensland Police Service spokeswoman said "a range of selection criteria" applied to the placement of speed cameras.

"The QPS rejects the claim sites are based on getting a lot of detections," the spokeswoman said.

snappy · 03-04-2010, 02:00 PM

An who said money does not grow on trees . An i fail to see how those people doing 50kph over the limit where insantly made safer drivers buy having there picture taken .

Any chance we could make a false advertising claims against the goverment when they state speed camera's save lives .

**SSD-85** · 03-04-2010, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

"The QPS rejects the claim sites are based on getting a lot of detections," the spokeswoman said.

If that is the case, then its one hell of a coincidence that theyre always found at the same sites for months on end...

Falc'man · 03-04-2010, 02:03 PM

Ahhh good news; if they keep this up there'll be no more cars on the road due to mass cancellations of licenses. Well done.

Quote:

"It's concerning to see such a high number of motorists are risking their lives and the lives of others," Mr Roberts said.

I wonder how many of the 720 ended up in hospital due to speeding.

bigdave87 · 03-04-2010, 03:21 PM

i'd guess, roughly, 0 hospitalisations due to speeding illness.

Auslandau · 03-04-2010, 06:06 PM

Spokesman said .... "These 720 drivers caught speeding will receive their fines in the post only to realise they were speeding 3 weeks ago, and in most instances not even remember doing so."

QLD is going to find out very quickly how brilliant these hidden ones are for the coffers ..... about time they caught up with Vic :thebirds:

| [/url] |

CFOUR · 03-04-2010, 06:13 PM

there was a vw golf unmaked speed camera on the gold coast today. instead of a rear number plate it has the flasher for the camera. we need to star complaining or these unmaked cash cows will become the norm. speeding is not in the top five leading causes of fatal accidents and should be treated as such.

SirHenry · 03-04-2010, 06:31 PM

My initial reaction to these was /blah more govt revenue raising. But then I looked at the amount of stupid, impatient, vehicularly retarded drivers are out there and thought yeah they are a good idea.

At the end of the day if you are not speeding you have nothing to worry about do you?

Personally I now think make them all unmarked speed cameras and make people think twice before speeding.

Even if they save one life then I think they justify their existence by getting some fool off the road that shouldn't be on the road. I am sure there are a lot of families of victims who wonder if the person who collided with their loved one (or even their loved one) was going a little bit slower would their loved one be alive today?

I also think there should be more marked police cars out there it makes people think a bit more about what they are doing on the roads.

EDManual · 04-04-2010, 06:41 PM

really, if you are speeding past a parked car, its not that bright anyway? Speed when theres no one there, no problems.

If you come up to a parked car on the side of the road and continue speeding, maybe you should have slowed down? Kinda fair enough...

Nikked · 04-04-2010, 06:44 PM

I don't see how unmarked speed cameras could slow people down. When is see the signs telling me that there is one comming up, i always double check my speed.

flappist · 04-04-2010, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

I don't see how unmarked speed cameras could slow people down. When is see the signs telling me that there is one comming up, i always double check my speed.

Well if you know there are unmarked speed cameras everywhere you can be justified in concentrating on your speedo rather than the road ahead so when drift across the road to the opposite lane and crash into one head on you will be under the speed limit and therefore not hurt in any way.

Simple really (just like the people who think that speed cameras are for road safety)

geckoGT · 04-04-2010, 07:07 PM

Anyone who is not capable of glancing at their speedo as well as scanning the road, checking their mirrors etc, without drifting into the other lane, should hand their license in now. I don't know about the rest of you but in every road test I have ever done, this is a skill I had to demonstrate and I have not lost because I use it every day.

Worst excuse I have heard against speed limits and speed limit enforcement. So much so that I am going to suggest anyone that can not effectively be aware of their speed using the speedo should slow down even more as they do not possess the skills required to travel at anything above walking pace.

Adamz Ghia · 04-04-2010, 07:17 PM

See, the argument, "if you're not speeding you have nothing to worry about" is wrong and arrogant. I wonder if anyone who peddles this can honestly say they haven't simply drifted over the limit, and straight away corrected it when they realised. Problem with these cameras is they can get you at that split second.

And how do they save lives? Tell me this, I'm flying down the road doing 80km/h in a 60 km/h zone, I fly past a camera and it takes my photo then 100m later I lose control and hit a pole and kill myself. How has that camera saves anyones life?

Dunno but you guys, but I sure as hell slow down more when I see a police car than when it's just a undercover camera.

geckoGT · 04-04-2010, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

And how do they save lives? Tell me this, I'm flying down the road doing 80km/h in a 60 km/h zone, I fly past a camera and it takes my photo then 100m later I lose control and hit a pole and kill myself. How has that camera saves anyones life?

Dunno but you guys, but I sure as hell slow down more when I see a police car than when it's just a undercover camera.

How do you stop stupidity?

Perhaps if you just travelled at the speed limit and not 20 km/h over you would not have that problem, no cameras, no police cars and potentially no poles. But then again I might be wrong.

flappist · 04-04-2010, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Anyone who is not capable of glancing at their speedo as well as scanning the road, checking their mirrors etc, without drifting into the other lane, should hand their license in now. I don't know about the rest of you but in every road test I have ever done, this is a skill I had to demonstrate and I have not lost because I use it every day.

Worst excuse I have heard against speed limits and speed limit enforcement. So much so that I am going to suggest anyone that can not effectively be aware of their speed using the speedo should slow down even more as they do not possess the skills required to travel at anything above walking pace.

The purpose of covert speed limit enforcement is:

a) to keep traffic safe

or

b) to raise revenue

The ACTUAL results, squillions of people booked and a huge road toll.

So if (a) is the real reason then covert enforcement has been an abject failure.
On the other hand if (b) is the real reason then it has been a huge success.

You have kids. If you punish them for something they did 3 weeks ago it will have no positive effect whatsoever.

Speed cameras with signs make people slow down. Not so good for revenue though.

Manned patrols doing intercepts also slow people down. Again not so good for revenue as coppers cost money.

Secret cameras do NOTHING AT ALL except raise money. I wonder how many of the people killed on the roads in the last few years have had a speed camera fine delivered to their grieving relatives.........

P.S. the previous post was actually satire

The G6ET Spot · 04-04-2010, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy

An i fail to see how those people doing 50kph over the limit where insantly made safer drivers buy having there picture taken .

.

Exactly! They would still ahv ebeen speeding down the road and not known that they were caught until 3-4 weeks later.

It is a shame that they don't put all the money they waste into speed cameras into marked police cars, then people would slow down with a visible presence.

But then the pollies would have to come up with some other way of funding their gravy trains.

svo supporter · 04-04-2010, 07:44 PM

Geez, you people in Qld have it easy. S.A don't have "warning" signs for pending undercover speed cameras. The first we know we have drifted over the speed limit is 3 weeks later.

I can see to a point speeding being an issue when it comes to accidents, however sometimes I fail to see how pinging someone 6K over the speed limit out on the open road can be justified. Or when you out in the middle of this country, where the towns are 2 1/2 hours + away from each other, you're pinged for 10K over the limit and told "slow down" speeding kills, yet you see signs all over the highway, "stop and rest" every 2 hours, as drowsyness kills. Makes plenty of sense. NOT

Adamz Ghia · 04-04-2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

How do you stop stupidity?

Perhaps if you just travelled at the speed limit and not 20 km/h over you would not have that problem, no cameras, no police cars and potentially no poles. But then again I might be wrong.

But that can be said with anything, if only I didn't, if only he didn't, that's after the fact. The scenario I gave, granted, might not be the most common, may not have ever even have happened, but if it has or does, that camera has done squat and I would safely bet my house that a marked police car would have slowed the driver down.

You stop stupidity with real punishments and the real possibility of being caught. The current method (in Victoria) of telling people where police will be targeting and when is plain wrong and not very smart. It just drives these people somewhere else. Saturate the community with police, offer to these people the real possibility of being caught and harden the laws up to offer real deterent. That's just my opinion, but I reckon it's well founded as we see what happens when the police run blitzes across Melbourne, there are very few petty offences caught (ie 3km/h over the limit), but the more serious stuff like dragging, burnouts, excessive speeding and perhaps the most dangerous of all, unroadworthy cars are all caught.

geckoGT · 04-04-2010, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

The purpose of covert speed limit enforcement is:

a) to keep traffic safe

or

b) to raise revenue

The ACTUAL results, squillions of people booked and a huge road toll.

So if (a) is the real reason then covert enforcement has been an abject failure.
On the other hand if (b) is the real reason then it has been a huge success.

You have kids. If you punish them for something they did 3 weeks ago it will have no positive effect whatsoever.

Speed cameras with signs make people slow down. Not so good for revenue though.

Manned patrols doing intercepts also slow people down. Again not so good for revenue as coppers cost money.

Secret cameras do NOTHING AT ALL except raise money. I wonder how many of the people killed on the roads in the last few years have had a speed camera fine delivered to their grieving relatives.........

P.S. the previous post was actually satire

Some very good points there but you have left some things out.

Picture this. You have a room in the house that you do not want your kids in and you have told them so. You fit a camera and do not tell them, they then go in the room and 3 weeks later you check the footage and punish the kids. Did the camera stop them from going in the room? No obviously not. If you tell your kids that the room is monitored by camera and they will be caught and they will be punished, will they go in it then? Probably not unless they are stupid or considered the gain from going in the room worth the punishment.

These covert cameras were well publicised before they were put into use, the public were well informed of the new risks of being caught and obviously some thought the gain from speeding was worth the risk. These same people are going to speed no matter what, until they run out of points.

We drove down to the gold coast today and spent the day down there doing a lot of driving. The police blitz and potential of unmarked speed cameras worked because I have never seen so many cars on the M1 sitting on the speed limit, way more than normal.

I was sitting on 100 km/h according to the sat nav and not getting passed constantly, this is unusual. I know it was in my mind that any car in the service lane or parked on the side of the road could be a speed camera, so for me it worked. Am I safer as a result? Not really sure but I certainly am not more unsafe. Not to mention the covert cars and bikes handed out a number of fines for use of mobiles whilst driving and distracted drivers are one of the leading causes of crashes.

As for does it save lives? One fatal crash in QLD this weekend and that was in an area that did not have covert cameras, none in the metro area, interesting!

jpd80 · 04-04-2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

And how do they save lives? Tell me this, I'm flying down the road doing 80km/h in a 60 km/h zone, I fly past a camera and it takes my photo then 100m later I lose control and hit a pole and kill myself. How has that camera saves anyones life?

Or like the majority of speeding motorists, you make it home safely and get speeding fines in the mail.
Get enough fines and you'll be walking and the chances of anyone dying are greatly reduced.

The risk of losing your license is the greatest deterrent of them all.

Franco Cozzo · 04-04-2010, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

. If you tell your kids that the room is monitored by camera and they will be caught and they will be punished, will they go in it then? Probably not unless they are stupid or considered the gain from going in the room worth the punishment.

These covert cameras were well publicised before they were put into use, the public were well informed of the new risks of being caught and obviously some thought the gain from speeding was worth the risk. These same people are going to speed no matter what, until they run out of points.

What happens in Victoria and you don't get told where the speed cameras are or where covert ones are going to be?

Personally, I like the ones on the Ring Road, they're placed up on a bridge on the other side so you can't see them until you've passed underneath them. Or the ones hidden behind big road signs.

geckoGT · 04-04-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

But that can be said with anything, if only I didn't, if only he didn't, that's after the fact. The scenario I gave, granted, might not be the most common, may not have ever even have happened, but if it has or does, that camera has done squat and I would safely bet my house that a marked police car would have slowed the driver down.

You stop stupidity with real punishments and the real possibility of being caught. The current method (in Victoria) of telling people where police will be targeting and when is plain wrong and not very smart. It just drives these people somewhere else. Saturate the community with police, offer to these people the real possibility of being caught and harden the laws up to offer real deterent. That's just my opinion, but I reckon it's well founded as we see what happens when the police run blitzes across Melbourne, there are very few petty offences caught (ie 3km/h over the limit), but the more serious stuff like dragging, burnouts, excessive speeding and perhaps the most dangerous of all, unroadworthy cars are all caught.

I agree with a lot of what you say but, in your scenario you say the driver would slow down, which he would. Then once past the cop and out of sight he will go back to 20 over, this happens in QLD. People travel at 15-20 over the limit, see a Mercedes Vito or 4WD parked on the side of the road and slow down. Once past they speed up again, everyone knows how to spot the camera units and they are too visible from too far away.

Once people know that they could be anywhere and they could be any vehicle parked on the side of the road, the perceived risk of being caught is a lot higher, hence increased deterrence.

In your method, there would have to be a cop car every 500m and that equates to a lot of wages. I am happy to have that many cops as they can keep us safe in other ways but are we willing to fund it?

How about we get rid of all speed and red light cameras and increase the number of cops by 100%? The downside is every household now has to pay a levy of $200 per year to fund this. Personally I am not for this idea as then those that do not break the law have to pay more, rather than just those that do.

Franco Cozzo · 04-04-2010, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I am happy to have that many cops as they can keep us safe in other ways but are we willing to fund it?

Make politicians "work" for free, out of the goodness of their heart.

If you can associate the words "Work", "Goodness" and "Heart" with "Politician".

geckoGT · 04-04-2010, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

What happens in Victoria and you don't get told where the speed cameras are or where covert ones are going to be?

If you know they exist and they could be anywhere, that is all you need to know for the deterrence to exist.

What do you want, signs that say when it is safe to speed and some that point to the "covert" camera units with a dirty great arrow? Not very covert and does not really apply the "anywhere, anytime" theory well does it?

Quote:

Make politicians "work" for free.

How about if you disagree with something and have a point, put forward workable ideas rather than ideas such as that. They might want their car fixed for free, are you going to be happy working for nothing?

KW XRT · 04-04-2010, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

How do you stop stupidity?

Perhaps if you just travelled at the speed limit and not 20 km/h over you would not have that problem, no cameras, no police cars and potentially no poles. But then again I might be wrong.

Lets distance ourselves from the speeding argument for amoment that way it won't cloud your judgement.My and a lot of peoples arguments are based on the fact the road toll is going up and up each year.That is a fact.More and more speed camera's have been introduced to QLD over tha last decade.I ask you has it made any difference to the road toll.You have to agree with the facts, speed camers'a havn't bought the road toll down.In fact I'll go one further the road toll is going up at an alarming rate.So you and others can bleat about joh blow getting caught for speeding {he pays his fine**** but serious does that benafit us as a society.The facts are it doesn't because the road toll continues to climb more and more young people are dying.

Here's a for instance, Speed camera's don't detect fatigue,txteres.ignorant or dangerous drivers,inatentive drivers,road ragers,old people who shouldn't be driving,email senders.makup applyers,etc etc.Facts are speeding comes down the list of killers but the way the government goes on you would think it was number 1.

Fact is our single lane roads are the biggest killers by far.I read an RACQ report years ago that stated that for every 1 kilometre of dual lane seperated carriage way you travel on you ARE 7 times less likely to have a fatal crash.The sooner we as citazens and the government realise this the better we will all be.

In closing lets put speeding in perspective,we were driving FJ's with x ply razor blades for tyres a few years ago,So why hasn't our legal speed limit increased in proportin to safety features placed in todays cars.

Further , I'm what you could say am a speeder,but I say to you that I am a lot safer driver than the hundreds that I work with.For all host of reasons but in ballance I drive to the conditions for instance our shopping centre has a 40k speed limit.Lots do 40 which they feel is safe,I do 20 because I had a kid run into my car one day.Had I been doing 40 I would have killed her.Also the amount of near misses I have had in shoppin centres with people doing 40 is incredible.

Franco Cozzo · 04-04-2010, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

If you know they exist and they could be anywhere, that is all you need to know for the deterrence to exist.

What do you want, signs that say when it is safe to speed and some that point to the "covert" camera units with a dirty great arrow? Not very covert and does not really apply the "anywhere, anytime" theory well does it?

No no, what we do down here in Victoria is speed up to the cameras which we pretty much know where all are now, slam on the brakes, go down to 80km/h, pass the camera then go back to speeding. Which causes a nice traffic jam, you really need to drive down here on our speed camera highways to see what its like. When you see a car on the side of the road, that pretty much means everyone slow down to look at it, then speed up again.

I don't know whats safer, 10km/h over or slamming on brakes and causing traffic jams.

Franco Cozzo · 04-04-2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

How about if you disagree with something and have a point, put forward workable ideas rather than ideas such as that. They might want their car fixed for free, are you going to be happy working for nothing?

I'd work for free, doesn't mean your car would get fixed though.

I was obviously being sarcastic.

jpd80 · 04-04-2010, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KW XRT

In closing lets put speeding in perspective,we were driving FJ's with x ply razor blades for tyres a few years ago,So why hasn't our legal speed limit increased in proportin to safety features placed in todays cars.

Because those speed limits are conservative and based on optimum driving
conditions, usually with minimal curves in the road.

Yes I have ridden in FJs and XPs at 70 mph down the old putty road
when she was still dirt, that was both smooth and exciting.

Also same thing on the Marlborogh to Sarina road when it was dirt
back in the early 1970s.

Auslandau · 04-04-2010, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

How about we get rid of all speed and red light cameras and increase the number of cops by 100%? The downside is every household now has to pay a levy of $200 per year to fund this. Personally I am not for this idea as then those that do not break the law have to pay more, rather than just those that do.

Brilliant idea! Why not?

At the moment:
You pay for the police but you may never be effected by crime?
You pay for the major roads being built in Melbourne but you will never use them?
You pay for the Grand Prix (Indie) but you may never go?
You pay for the hospitals but may never need one?
You pay for the unemployed but you may never be?
You pay for the defence force but you may never be invaded?
You pay ........ etc

Wouldn't it be great if we ONLY had to pay that extra $200.00 a year to have police on every corner ..... least we know that this works and I think it would be wonderful insurance for me and the family. I pay a HELL of a lot more than that every year on sillier things.

PS. Yes you brake the law every time you and everyone else drives ...... its just that many are lucky not to be caught.

I was speeding just tonight (heaven forbid) and a police car over took me. I checked my speedo ...86k's in an 80 zone. Speed camera I would have been gone ..... on a 3 lane road, no traffic in site, I am sure the police didn't take a second look as I was not (in their consideration) doing anything stupid nor dangerous. The outcome? I went to 80 and stayed there .... if I was next to a camera? Still would have (Oh so dangerously) sped for the next few weeks before I realised.

OH .... and if any driver say they don't speed do not watch their speedo enough ...... or are lying.

| [/url] |

geckoGT · 04-04-2010, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KW XRT

Lets distance ourselves from the speeding argument for amoment that way it won't cloud your judgement.My and a lot of peoples arguments are based on the fact the road toll is going up and up each year.That is a fact.More and more speed camera's have been introduced to QLD over tha last decade.I ask you has it made any difference to the road toll.You have to agree with the facts, speed camers'a havn't bought the road toll down.In fact I'll go one further the road toll is going up at an alarming rate.So you and others can bleat about joh blow getting caught for speeding {he pays his fine**** but serious does that benafit us as a society.The facts are it doesn't because the road toll continues to climb more and more young people are dying.

Here's a for instance, Speed camera's don't detect fatigue,txteres.ignorant or dangerous drivers,inatentive drivers,road ragers,old people who shouldn't be driving,email senders.makup applyers,etc etc.Facts are speeding comes down the list of killers but the way the government goes on you would think it was number 1.

Fact is our single lane roads are the biggest killers by far.I read an RACQ report years ago that stated that for every 1 kilometre of dual lane seperated carriage way you travel on you ARE 7 times less likely to have a fatal crash.The sooner we as citazens and the government realise this the better we will all be.

In closing lets put speeding in perspective,we were driving FJ's with x ply razor blades for tyres a few years ago,So why hasn't our legal speed limit increased in proportin to safety features placed in todays cars.

Further , I'm what you could say am a speeder,but I say to you that I am a lot safer driver than the hundreds that I work with.For all host of reasons but in ballance I drive to the conditions for instance our shopping centre has a 40k speed limit.Lots do 40 which they feel is safe,I do 20 because I had a kid run into my car one day.Had I been doing 40 I would have killed her.Also the amount of near misses I have had in shoppin centres with people doing 40 is incredible.

Steady decline in road toll from 3500 in 1981 down to 1600 in 2007, where is the increase?

Yes there have been years that were higher than the previous, by relatively small numbers, but the overall trend is less deaths, that is fact.

What those that tell you the road toll is not decreasing because of the number of actual deaths is that the percentage of deaths per number of road users has decreased.

Quote:

There were 13.9 million motor vehicles, including motorcycles, registered in Australia at 31 March 2005. This represents an increase of 11.6% since the 2001 Motor Vehicle Census (MVC), when there were 12.5 million vehicles registered in Australia. The average annual growth over this time was 2.8%

The above quote is from the ABS.

Thus, if there was an increase in road toll of approximately 11%, that would retain the same road death/road user ratio over the same time period. But it has not increased, it has actually gone down over that time period, despite the increase in road users.

Kind of kills the idea of a spiraling road toll doesn't it (and yes they did have speed cameras in the 2001-2005 time period)?