Running costs - Aus vs imports

[Boosh Brus]

I am curious to know what the real running costs are on local and imported makes and models based on real life experience.

Most of the cars my family have had were/are euros and although some of the dealers can charge most of our cars are DIY or take it to a mechanic who wont void your warranty if applicable.

Personally, I have had more problems in my 14 year old ford then a 25 year old Volvo. Obviously previous owners, kilometers, enthusiastic driving etc all make a difference. Anyway that's the point of this thread. Are all euros expensive to maintain? Are they expensive but are more reliable so need less maintenance? Is it only certain marques that are expensive? How about Japanese cars?

Please share your experiences. Make of the car, year owned, problems etc. Lets keep them less the 20 years old at time of ownership.

Again I want to hear your experiences maybe your immediate relatives experiences. I don't want to know about your friend's brother's cat's mechanic's ex-boss's wife's cousin's Mercedes.

And keep the car sensible. Sure it might cost 30000 pound to service a Mclaren F1 but how many of them do you see cruising up the coast towing a boat?

[psychoticgroove]

1987 BMW 735i, bought in 2005 (18years old at the time)
Head Gasket leaking oil- $2200
Brake Master Cylinder rebuild- $1800
Warped rear Disc rotors- $800 (from wreckers)

Was not a happy chappy.

[nstg8a]

imo japanese import cars are 11ty times more reliable that a comparable ford or holden.

ive owned plenty of both, and have had far more bits fail on fords compared to the mitsis/hondas/toyotas etc that ive owned.

but i still prefer fords, although sometimes i wonder why.

[Boosh Brus]

Wow thats a tad expensive. The 735i motor is not that difficult to work on. My bro recoed his 535i head quite cheap (same motor) From memory it cost him around $650 plus fluids etc DIY. Did you go to a dealer or local mechanic?
Also how many k's?

[flappist]

Last 3 primary drive vehicles:

BA GTP 85,000km 2003-2005

Constantly in for warranty problems including electronics, diff, gearbox, ECU, engine oil usage. Lost time due to car being unavailable in excess of 30 days.
As it was under warranty the majority of expensed were absorbed, if not it would have cost a fortune.

BA2 F6 105,000km 2005-2008
Constantly if for warranty problems including electronics, diff, clutch and suspension. Lost time due to car being unavailable in excess of 40 days.
It had a problem in that anything that was plugged into the 12 volt system would fail and sometimes be destroyed e.g. several phones, "electronic counter measures", UHF CBs, VHF 2 way, laptop, portable GPS etc. It was in several times to sort this and almost every component of the electronics replaced before both FPV and myself gave up and it was sold.
Most of the above was covered under warranty but there was almost $11,000 in "expenses" over the 3 years including tyres and goodies.

350Z 61,000km 2008-2010
Only warranty problem has been a mark on the leather in the passenger seat that was fixed by installing a new leather cover.

Wifes vehicle:

BA2 XT 2008-2010 40,000km (70k-110k)
Brakes, RH door handle, brakes again, radiator, battery, misc minor faults. Needs the brakes done again soon.

So far spent about $3k on a $10k second hand car.

[Ducati888]

Probably more a question of parts prices than the work required itself, if work is required.

Hondas are known for having expensive genuine parts for example. I don't know how that compares to BMW, Audi or Toyota.

Hourly rates are generally the same. I imagine that a head gasket job on a ten year old Falc, assuming a head rebuild & valve grind would compare to be about the same as any other car with an inline engine. Consumables like brakes, oil and filters should all be comparable.

$1800 for a BMW master cylinder rebuild seems a tad excessive seeing as how they are only made up of about three o rings and one seal.

I don't know how to answer the question though. I've had plenty of fleet Commodores & Falcons, and all have been regularly maintained and extremely reliable (got rid of them all before the 110000km point though). I had a Honda Euro that was very reliable (only had for 30000ks), a 2005 Mitsu Verada currently that I've done 70000ks in and has been exceptionally reliable, and a 1997 Prado that is to this day on par with the Honda Euro as the best car I have ever owned, and I still own it.

That may change when I get the XB Coupe going.

[psychoticgroove]

Originally Posted by Boosh Brus

Wow thats a tad expensive. The 735i motor is not that difficult to work on. My bro recoed his 535i head quite cheap (same motor) From memory it cost him around $650 plus fluids etc DIY. Did you go to a dealer or local mechanic?
Also how many k's?

Went to a local eurocar specialist mechanic, though I think there was a minor crack in the head as well, hence the high price. The car was an original German import, the last owner was an embassy worker who had died recently before i bought the car, with around 130k 'Miles' on it. The mechanic said that the BMW inline 6 was known to do that with cars that old, not sure whether he was bullshi77ing...

[MexicanBatman]

I had a 2004 all wheel drive magna, decided to supercharge it... Anyway had 120kw at the flywheel more than stock

One day I blew it up ( well it didn't, cracked a piston ) still dragged of a vr ss running on about 4 cyls....

Long story short 2004 model car at the time it was 4 years old, got a lower km engine than what was in it supplies and fitted for under 1k and that included modifying the block as awd and fed magnas have a different block!

Try that in a 4 year old euro or any other large sized sedan!

On the other side, I had a 1991 hilux with 330k on it and it never had an easy days work, used to rev it to 5k in N and slam it into D for fun, never spent a single cent on it in the 100,000km it was in the family other than cheap oil and filters... Ran better than the brand-new rodeo that replaced it!

I did have bad luck with an old BMW I spent 7500 in 2 years on gearbox clutch and diff issues and it had stacks more problems...


It's luck of the draw, I had an ef factory gas, it ran like a dream and never had a single problem in the 12months I owned it, same with a ts astra, not one issue.... Mate had one and it was at the dealer more than home....

[Powdered Toast Man]

Only ever had Falcons but of the 2 most notable:

EFII Gli V8 - owned from 24000kms to 305000kms and nothing on the car that was factory fitted failed. LPG converter was on it's last legs but you cant blame Ford for that.

BA XT Mk2 V8 - bought as 6000kms 1yr old ex demo. Now has 91,000kms on it and the only warranty work was a respray (Shockwave!). Just had the rotors machined for the 2nd time and the original factory pads are still at 50% so I am very happy. I must have a Wednesday built BA. Been through a few sets of tyres though, but thats punctures

I'll probably go Jap or Euro next car. But thats becasue I will be going for a small car, not because I dont want aussie made.

I think sometimes it's just luck of the draw, but research before you buy also doesn't go astray.

[Polyal]

I too have only had falcons, so in general they are cheap compared to other things. An example is the transmission. I was pretty sure my tranny (auto) was gone in my AU, turns out a service and oil was all it needed even though it was acting like it was on its death bed. Worst case I would have been up for $1800 for a rebuild.

In contrast, my Mums 2002 Audi A6 had a transmission "issue", they could not find the fault (central melbourne dealer) and order a new one. $6500 later, and a month down the track it was fixed (replaced) and they still couldn't find the issue. Car was out of warranty aswell. She sold it as soon as it was back on the road and brought a new C class.

So, an equivalent year audi gearbox is worth the same as my AU..LOL (probably more).

In theory euros should be just as reliable as anything else on the road aslong as its maintained. What kills us here is we are isolated, I bet you the $$$ to fix BMW's et al in Europe is nothing like it is here.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

I hate to say it but I had a VK commodore as my first car, flogged the GUTS out of it and it was a coil pack in the end that killed it. Niggly stuff like the door handle stuffing up was the only thing actually "wrong" with it, other than shocking fuel economy.

I've replaced most of my AU Fairmont Ghia now, whoever buys it will be a pig in the preverbial! Put at least $2k into it just in parts + labour on top of that.

My friends S13 however, has been boosted to the limits, driving rough, had some bone crunching clutch dumps and it still hasn't died. Likewise with my fathers toyota hiace, you just can't kill the thing!

[Boosh Brus]

Originally Posted by Polyal

In theory euros should be just as reliable as anything else on the road aslong as its maintained. What kills us here is we are isolated, I bet you the $$$ to fix BMW's et al in Europe is nothing like it is here.

Thats partly why I was asking the real cost of running. I had a friend crash his Lexus and he just bought the parts cheap from ebay US.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Local / Asian (high volume) cars will generally be cheaper in terms of servicing / repairs etc.

I just quoted a rear electric window motor for a convertible Citroen I own....

It is a rare model, and no one was wrecking one. The motors are known to fail, so any wrecked ones you do find will be without motors already. I learnt this after a little research on the net, and calling several breakers in the UK.

Called Citroen...

Me: "I need a rear left hand side motor for my 06 Pluriel, supply only".

Cit: "Yep, $1800 and it will take 3 weeks".

Me: "Um.. I don't need the whole window assembly, just the motor itself"

Cit: "Yep, motor only, $1800. I have quoted dozens of them, but have never actually ordered one. Makes you wonder what all these people who have buggered windows do doesn't it?"

Me: "Um.. ok.. thanks anyway mate"...

$1800 for a bloody window motor... I should have called Porsche / Ferrari for the fun of it to see what they charge for an electric window motor...

Went to a local auto electrician to see what he can do. He was able to get it repaired off site and had all working like new for less than 1/4 of the price Citroen wanted.

He still had a laugh about the $1800 Citroen wanted. He did a rear window the week before on a top of the line Lexus and the motor alone was around a grand. He said he could have done if for less but the owner insisted on genuine parts.

2 weeks prior to that, I need some servicing for my Fiat Coupe. Called the local specialist and was quoted astronomical figures for basic parts (eg water pump, thermostat, timing belt / pulleys, filters, clutch etc).

Again, I did a little research and ordered all the above, bar the clutch for less than the locally quoted price of the water pump ALONE from the UK. Delivered in 5 days via Fedex.

So.. yes, I do think Euro's will be far more expensive to run and maintain compared to local cars. Prices for repairs can be reduced greatly if you have the time to fool around chasing parts from overseas.

Having said that, if I were to have a business that heavily relied on vehicles I would stick to mainstream Asian variants such as Toyota, Hyundai etc.

[hawke]

My Porsche Boxter 987 annual service - $900 at the Porsche dealer. Probably able to do it myself for about $200, but happy to pay for the dealer stamp in the book. Probably cheaper to buy a rubber stamp, but then it does get serviced, washed and a loan car - last one was a Cayman S with the new Double thing gearbox - what a car. Only needs a service every 12 months.

Brake pads about $180 a set (including sensors), rear tyres about $1,200 set, but many almost new standard sets available second hand. Apparently many owners change wheels to bigger diameter.

Wifes Merc B200 turbo, last service was about $100 doing it myself. $8 for a filter, $90 for Mobil One 0-40 oil. Needs a service every 15,000k. Front pads $100.

We log all the car cost through our company, the overall costs / km of these cars is comparable with an AU ute. Granted the ute is only to pull a race car trailer, so uses plenty of fuel. If anyone can explain why insurance for ute is more than a Porsche, let me know.

Hope this helps.

[Ben73]

Depends on the euro car really.
I think it mainly costs more because they have to get the parts over here. But apparently American cars are expensive to fix as well.

I have heard of some euro cars being fixed for very cheap prices before. I don't think they are as bad as some people (who have never been in one but still think they know everything about them) say they are.

[flappist]

My wife's BA2 XT had the front pax door grip break off.

I went to order the part from Ford when I got it serviced 2 weekends ago.

$840 for a bloody door grip......

I am going to get one from a wrecker.

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

So.. yes, I do think Euro's will be far more expensive to run and maintain compared to local cars. Prices for repairs can be reduced greatly if you have the time to fool around chasing parts from overseas.

Quite possibly, but my 2006 Peugeot 307 hasn't cost us anything apart from tyres at this point in time. I am curious as to how much it is going to cost when we get to replace such things as CV Joints, brakes and rotors, etc. I'll be using a French car specialist mechanic though, not the dealer.
As for Citroen parts, see if you can find an equivalent on a Peugeot car. They are very similar mechanically due to both marquees being owned by the one company - PSA.

My Falcon has been quite reliable also, so I think a well maintained car shouldn't cost too much irrespective of it's country of origin. I've had it since it had 47,000kms on the clock and it's now up over 286,000kms. Only major repair in that time has been the head, but that's standard on an EL
There are the usual running costs associated with a car to replace those items that wear out, but shopping around and researching should keep them relatively cheap.

[DMXR6T]

Had many Falcons, old and new. Very few problems (maybe 2 over 10 cars) and those repairs were cheap. The old XA 6 cyl had 200K miles on the clock when I sold it. Original clutch, rocker cover never off and only replaced the water pump. Curent FG XR6T not missed a beat in 2 years. I have also had several Jap cars and also only a few problems.

Friends with Citroen had nightmares - regular problems and huge repair bills. Friends with Merc and BMW - high serveice costs and only average reliability.

Of course, with any brand you can have lemons.

[loosey]

My comparison probably isn't really fair but I had the cars for about the same amount of time..

XE falcon: clutch, brakes, suspension, bushes, belts/ hoses, 10,000 km services

R33 Skyline: water pump, radiator, heater core, hoses, brakes, 5000km services

Rego is exactly the same as they're both 6's. Insurance was about 300 p/a for fire and theft on the falcon and it's about $1200 p/a for full comp on the skyline (i'm under 25).
Overall the skyline has been more reliable however the service intervals and synthetic oils would mean that it's more costly to run. They're both fairly similar on fuel consumption unless I start driving the skyline like a race car.
As for replacement parts it really isn't any worse than the falcon, you just have to know where to look. If you goto nissan you're going to get raped, if you source good second hand parts or go with aftermarket parts you'll come out on top every time.

[mik]

i`d have to say the au has been a good limo for me, 180 kliks still on original ball joints /suspension ,alternator, engine, auto, diff, apart from normal wear and tear items, belt tensioner pulleys,steering rack + pump seals, front main seal, extension houseing seal, and wheel bearings+3" stainless exhaust , water pump and radiator, and brake parts, nearly ten years of hard labour for the old girl, also never had the tappet cover off, cheap motoring imo.

[CAMS290]

Depends on where you get your Euro car serviced or where you buy your parts.

Taking a European car back to the dealer will cost a fortune, they have to pay huge overheads to have a flashy dealership, and factory trained techs, same with spare parts costs.

If you do some shopping around you can get oem parts from importers at a huge savings, and there are workshops that specialize in particular brands of Euro cars that don't charge anywhere near what a dealership charges.

[Burnout]

Many years ago a Fiat 1500 Mk2, just moving a few cattle around a paddock and ran the thing up on a stump.
(Just before you all flame me, I've had to live with the fact that Fiats don't make terrific mustering vehicles for yonks).

Cracked alloy sump! Bugga! Order Sump, $150.00 including gasket.
Thirteen Weeks delivery to Sydney, (Middle Eastern War), then up by train, coupla days.
I was earning $40.00 per week in those days.

[aussie muscle]

i found the biggest cost relating to import cars is that since you can't buy parts locally, you have to get them from a specialist and that meant getting them shipped to me. it's hard to get bigger items shipped from o/s too. fyi, i used to own a Pontiac Firebird.