Do you think a dealer will negotiate a better price without a trade in???

[GTP 044]

Hi guys and girls,

My wife and I are about to start looking at buying her a new car. We don't have a trade in as she has had a company car up until now. Do you think that a dealer would negotiate more without a trade in or not as much because they won't be able to make a profit on the traded in car when they sell it??? I have seen a car for $32990 drive away and was hoping to spend about $30000 drive away. Do you think that $3000 is too much to expect them to drop the price?? The car in question is a 2010 Nissan Xtrail with 3,000kms on the clock. We used to own an Xtrail in 2002 when they first came out and it was a good car, has anybody here had one of the new ones??? What are your opinions about them??

Thanks in advance,

Greg.

[Poetic Justice]

Is the Xtrail auto or manual? ST?

If it's an ST you should be able to buy a 2011 for similar money.

Anyway in saying that, if it's a price they told you it's reasonable to expect that the price could have $3k flex in it.

However, keep in mind, I am an internet new car sales person and 95% of my advertised prices online are pretty close to cost price and don't have some of the perceived profit margins people think that are automatically there with an advertised price.

[Poetic Justice]

Having said that, there's no harm in you making an offer of 30k and sticking to your grounds.

Make the offer, let it stand for 48 hours. If it's possible, they will crumble and do the deal.

[GTP 044]

Originally Posted by SCUD

Is the Xtrail auto or manual? ST?

If it's an ST you should be able to buy a 2011 for similar money.

Anyway in saying that, if it's a price they told you it's reasonable to expect that the price could have $3k flex in it.

However, keep in mind, I am an internet new car sales person and 95% of my advertised prices online are pretty close to cost price and don't have some of the perceived profit margins people think that are automatically there with an advertised price.

It is a manual TI with all the fruit. The price is advertised on Carsales and I am going to go and see them later today or tomorrow. We originally were looking at brand new 2WD ST's for about $26000 drive away but thought we might go for the TI if we can get the price we wanted.

[Poetic Justice]

Yeah fair enough. What dealer is it?

If it's a used dealer and the price advertised was 32,990... you should be able to get it close to 30k.

Redbook rates the car as highest trade value around $28,600. Most dealers probably tack on 3-4k worth of crap charges (rwc test, racv test, full detail and also its own dealer fees, sometimes upwards of $1800) before they even start making profit. Assuming it's a top notch car traded for 28k, you may struggle.

Either way, as I said, make your offer, hold your guns for 48 hours and see what happens. Tell them that you're serious, if you can do $30,000 I'm prepared to give you a credit card deposit to hold the vehicle now. Don't say anything more than that otherwise you'll just tell the sales person that you can be broken.

If after 48 hours they haven't somehow made it happen at 30k, you can almost believe he can't do that price. If still keen on the vehicle, just ask him for the very best price.

[GTP 044]

Originally Posted by SCUD

Yeah fair enough. What dealer is it?

If it's a used dealer and the price advertised was 32,990... you should be able to get it close to 30k.

Redbook rates the car as highest trade value around $28,600. Most dealers probably tack on 3-4k worth of crap charges (rwc test, racv test, full detail and also its own dealer fees, sometimes upwards of $1800) before they even start making profit. Assuming it's a top notch car traded for 28k, you may struggle.

Either way, as I said, make your offer, hold your guns for 48 hours and see what happens. Tell them that you're serious, if you can do $30,000 I'm prepared to give you a credit card deposit to hold the vehicle now. Don't say anything more than that otherwise you'll just tell the sales person that you can be broken.

If after 48 hours they haven't somehow made it happen at 30k, you can almost believe he can't do that price. If still keen on the vehicle, just ask him for the very best price.

PM sent

[flappist]

First rule of car sales.

Dealers are in the business of SELLING not BUYING.

You will ALWAYS be screwed if you trade.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

First rule of car sales.

Dealers are in the business of SELLING not BUYING.

You will ALWAYS be screwed if you trade.

^^^^^^
This should be on a sticky with other good rules for people buying and selling vehicles.

2. Always always sell your own vehicle separately to what is happening with your new purchase,

3. Do not fall for inflated trade in price when the purchase price is loaded too, you will get screwed.

4. Beware of dealers telling you that's the best price they can do, always shop around.


I remember a guy posted regarding purchasing a vehicle, got sick of dealer hard sell and instead
emailed out the vehicle he wanted to several dealerships and picked the lowest response.

[Auslandau]

I would say that $32,999 advertised ...... $30,000 would be a gimme with no trade in and money in hand ready to go. I would be going in at around $28,000 and after 10 minutes of negotiation see where you end up. Might be surprised.

[XDV800]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

I would say that $32,999 advertised ...... $30,000 would be a gimme with no trade in and money in hand ready to go. I would be going in at around $28,000 and after 10 minutes of negotiation see where you end up. Might be surprised.

+1 this idea and also shop arond, you should find same vehicle elsewhere
Good car the Xtrail

[geckoGT]

I bought a Mazda 3 in 2004, went in to the dealer and the on road price was $32990.

I asked the salesman if he could have it on the road for $30k? His answer was lets go for a test drive and then we will talk about it. My answer was I do not want to waste his time, $30k was budget and nothing more. I told him if he can do $30k on road, we will test drive and I will leave a deposit today. His answer was "for today only we will do it for $30k". We did the test drive and we bought that car for $30k, never registered and double digits for the Km's on the clock. Deal done in under an hour but I knew what I wanted and had read all the reviews.

[flappist]

My datto was rrp $75k plug and play and the best deal I was offered trying to trade the F6 was $41k change over.

I sold the F6 for $31k, all the bits I took off it for another $5700 and paid $62,500 for the datto straight off the boat.

[prydey]

the trick is to convince them you are serious. when bought my fg, i really wanted to buy one from a certain dealership, as they have really looked after me in their service department. they had a few to choose from but wouldn't budge too much on price. they rang me a few days later to see how i was getting on and it just happened to be the day i just sold the car i had and i'd also all but put a deposit on my current car. as soon as they realised i had money and had basically agreed on a car at another dealership, they rang me all morning with prices about $4000 less than what they were stickered at. the only reason i didn't buy from them is they were all 5sp and i got a 6sp.

when they know you are serious, they will treat you much better. many times, a sale is better than no sale, even if its not making a lot of money for them. it enables them to keep rotating their stock.

dealers have to put up with a large % of tyre kickers who aren't really there to buy. makes it hard when a serious buyer turns up.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by flappist

My datto was rrp $75k plug and play and the best deal I was offered trying to trade the F6 was $41k change over.

I sold the F6 for $31k, all the bits I took off it for another $5700 and paid $62,500 for the datto straight off the boat.

Nice little saving there.

I think dealers always factor in a certain amount of risk when taking a trade in. Must be a dealer worst nightmare giving a top dollar trade in price and then getting stuck with it and having to drop the price drastically to move it on.

In the end, that comfort factor for that risk has to go onto the car they are selling or a reduction in the trade in price, they are a business and they are out to make money.

[buggerlugs]

We bought a Nissan Patrol about 10 years ago. Went to both Nissan dealers on the coast. We were paying cash, no trade. First price was $49,000, then the dealers went at it against each other. Was quite amusing. Ended up getting it for about $41,000 with a heap of extras.........

[Adamz Ghia]

When I bought my ute (used), I walked in, told them I had $X and that's it, I honestly didn't have a penny more to spend on a car. Told them if they took that plus my AU I'd take it then and there. So they sent me out for a test drive and when I got back they said no worries. They wrote it as $6500 trade in, an I got a further $300 off the sticker price. Well I shouldn't say sticker price as the car wasn't in the yard long enough for them to do up a price sheet for it. I went in Friday, it wasn't there. Went in Sunday night, was sitting in the corner near the sales office, was home with me Monday.

Same when mum bought her LS Focus LX. Told them she had $16,000 limit. She got the car at that price, down from &18,888 with new mats, boot liner and a full tank of petrol.

Try that approach. The worst they can say is no.

[wrongwaynorris]

First rule of car sales.

Dealers are in the business of SELLING not BUYING.

Actually dealers are also in the business of buying , where do you think their stock to sell comes from ? Whether that purchase is from the auctions , wholesalers or trade ins they have to be purchased somewhere , they don't just miracle themselves onto the lot .

You will ALWAYS be screwed if you trade.

Absolutely NOT , why do people continue to think car dealers should give cars away . You will NOT be screwed at all . If the market value for a car is $10,000.00 that is realistically all a dealer will get for it on the open market , so by the time you remove the warranty load , the dealers legitimate costs ,usually rectifying minor faults with the traded in car that the person who traded it in said was normal wear and tear for a car of that age and mileage but all of a sudden becomes a major fault with a car they are considering purchasing ) and a profit margin ( Yes Profit it not a dirty word , thats why they are in business) you end up with the trade in valuation offered . If that is not acceptable either go elsewhere or sell the car privately .

You will always be able to drive a better deal without a trade unless the dealer has a buyer waiting in the wings to buy exactly what you are trading .

Growing a littler bit tired of the dealer bashing in this and a lot of other forums

And just remember there are two kinds of lies told in the motor sales game , Big ones told by some unscrupulous dealers and absolutely massive gargantuan whoppers told by buyers .

[geckoGT]

I am sorry, I have not seen much "dealer bashing" if any at all. In fact many of us stated quite clearly they are a business and need to make profit.
.
Personally I like the idea of both parties being up front and honest, I don't want to BS on what will get me to buy the car, I don't want the theatrics and BS on what it is going to cost me. I have better things to do with my time and I am sure the salesman has too.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

First rule of car sales.

Dealers are in the business of SELLING not BUYING.

Actually dealers are also in the business of buying , where do you think their stock to sell comes from ? Whether that purchase is from the auctions , wholesalers or trade ins they have to be purchased somewhere , they don't just miracle themselves onto the lot .

You will ALWAYS be screwed if you trade.

Absolutely NOT , why do people continue to think car dealers should give cars away . You will NOT be screwed at all . If the market value for a car is $10,000.00 that is realistically all a dealer will get for it on the open market , so by the time you remove the warranty load , the dealers legitimate costs ,usually rectifying minor faults with the traded in car that the person who traded it in said was normal wear and tear for a car of that age and mileage but all of a sudden becomes a major fault with a car they are considering purchasing ) and a profit margin ( Yes Profit it not a dirty word , thats why they are in business) you end up with the trade in valuation offered . If that is not acceptable either go elsewhere or sell the car privately .

You will always be able to drive a better deal without a trade unless the dealer has a buyer waiting in the wings to buy exactly what you are trading .

Growing a littler bit tired of the dealer bashing in this and a lot of other forums

And just remember there are two kinds of lies told in the motor sales game , Big ones told by some unscrupulous dealers and absolutely massive gargantuan whoppers told by buyers .

You are obviously in the motor trade, I work with many dealers on a regular basis.

All your car is worth to them is basic wholesale value which is often extremely low.

Actual example:

I was going to sell my datto. 2008 Track 70,000km.
3 wholesalers offered $24k, $24k & $27k.
Carsales listed 30 odd similar cars for $39k to $48k.

So if I trade my datto it is only worth up to $27k to the dealer and for him to offer me say $39k (the lowest retail) on my shiny new Aston Martin DBS he is $12k in the hole so has to have $12k ON TOP of his normal margin so I would be $12,000 better off NOT trading and he makes the same margin or if I sold privately for $35k ($4k less than the cheapest of the 30 odd advertised at the time) and then ran around wth the folding green stuff I could easily get a better deal (and I did but I am keeping the datto also as it is the best handling car I have ever owned).

He could just offer me wholesale but then I would get offended at the up 100% markup he could put on it when selling and go somewhere else.

As many in the trade have told me, they are in the business of SELLING not BUYING so they buy at the lowest price possible and sell at the highest price possible (and any person in any business who says differently is just lying).....

[XDV800]

New car sales and used car sales are 2 different entities, run by different managers usually as far apart from each other as possible.
New car manufacturers do not want to have their products competing with last years or earlier models that have been traded or are on the lot likely to grab a possible new buyers attention.

9 times out of 10 a trade in on a newey will be shipped of to auction straight up as is, unless the affiliated used car manager believes it will fit into his stock quota nicely, or some other arrangement is made quickly for someone to scoop up an awesome wholesale bargain.

The cheapest way to buy a 2nd hand car is to befriend a vehicle wholesaler.
The trading dealer will have gotten the value of that car down to less than half its value at times!
Best way to buy a new car is to SHOP AROUND and play the field.

[mash again]

i Find it ammusing that dealers, people in the motor trade on this forum and others think its Ok for them to make as much profit as they can, but not ok for me to make the biggest saving i can, reality is that both are legitimate in a free market, and if i can get the dealer down to below his cost i have done very well, and if he can get me to pay top dollar he has done well, i like to meet in the middle with good service, sadly it seems very hard to find.

[jpd80]

If you look after your vehicles, there will be people who know about it
(maybe through others) that will pay you a fair price - better than a dealer...

When you go to a dealer be sure of what you want and keep the dealer on your plan,
they will try to close the deal as early as possible because they make more money.
Keep them talking, the person who is silent has control and can dominate by indifference...

Dealers will try to sweeten the deal by either loading a base model or offering
you a discounted higher series, make sure you want this or push for your discount.
Some dealers are real car guys and get a kick out of getting people into nice cars
but other dealers will push stuff because they has bought slow moving stock.

If the figures seem to be coming at you too thick and fast, you have the
right to slow things down and absorb what is being thrown at you..

Buying a vehicle can be a very emotional time and dealers will use this against you
if you let them and even if you are not really interested in a competitor's car,
just keep that little seed in his head - it's your little ace in the hole...

[Poetic Justice]

The fact of the matter is that there is two values to consider with a trade-in vehicle. Trade price, and retail/private price. It's obvious and painfully clear that there is a big gap.

Whether you choose to accept it is purely up to you. Whilst some sales people will 'screw' you by trying not to give you the actual trade value, not all do. Especially if you're good at negotiating. Therefore it's unwise to suggest all trade-ins are effectively screwing you. You're taking the lesser amount to save yourself the hassle of actually having to sell the vehicle yourself basically.

What most people need to understand around here is the perceived profit making new vehicles make versus the reality of it. I sell new Toyotas and my average profit would be in the hundreds. Certainly not thousands.

[Brent]

Righteo, unless you have something REALLY special that will sell within 3 minutes of hitting the paper/web whatever, selling a car is a pretty fricken ordinary experience. Pay for advertising; get a roadworthy (and get ripped off in the process); keep the car pristine for weeks; put up with tyre-kickers, no-shows, cretins, liars, and general time wasters; realise your RWC has run out and then pay for another etc.....

OR (and its a big "OR"), throw the dealer the keys to the piece of rubbish you're offloading and be done with it. Then drive off in your shiny new car. Holding aside the economics of it all which Flappist has quite succinctly outlined, when you trade a car in, you're paying for the luxury of throwing the dealer the keys and never looking back. You know it, and they know it.

They've got you over a barrel and they know that most people who come through the door and spend good coin on a newbie usually are in full time employment, work hard, and have better things to do with their weekends other than putting up with the "private car for sale" circus. Its a pretty tried and tested formula.

[BIONIC MAN]

yeh, well said brent, you pay for the privilage, thats for sure.
but your buying a new(ish) car thats going to deprieciate quickly anyway so thats more money dissapearing! for some people its just part of the cost of living life and driving a car i guess.
a mate had a nice BF 2 XR6 turbo, bought new, he put every option on it to the point of extended warrantee, paint protection, even interior protection (but it had leather seats!?)
he got bored, wanted a change at less than 18 months old,only 20k on the clock, was very GENEROUSLY offered 17k as a trade in!!
so he BARGAINED HARD.. and got them up to 23k or 24k i think... wow, was a high 50k car new..
i saw the dealer had it on car sales for 35k the next week!!!
i would have cried seeing so much money evaporate soooo quickly.

[Supercharged]

Local dealer claims they make more from my trade in's than the sale of the new car.
Just ordered new GS ute, tradin was $5000.00 more than what they wanted to pay and $2,000 more than I expected and also got $5000 off cost of GS.
They always say no trade will result in better price as they haven't been fully paid on the new car until they sell your trade in but if your trade in is a premium vehicle they will make some money on that as well.

[fourl6]

Before you consider a new X-trail, It only scored a 4 star ANCAP rating and has a fairly bad offset crash score (Offset crash test : 8.59 out of 16)

While 4 star might not seem to bad, remember thats a $30k car in 2011...

more info here
How Safe Is Your Car

[93EB_SXR6]

I always think its funny that people say; "Oh, but I saw a car exactly the same as mine on carsales.com.au for twice as much as what the dealer said he'd give me for it!"
The fact of the matter is: 90% of the cars I've seen on carsales are over-priced. I've seen people asking > $3k for VK/VL Commodores and EA/EB Falcons with > 300,000 kms on the clock. Not SS commodores or XR6/8 Falcons either, just standard; every man and his dog pooboxes.

[kaniSS]

I just cut all the ******** and told the dealer if I like it I will take it off your hands right now if you give me a good price. My deposit is ready.

He asked me how much do you want to pay? I told him the price, he said go up a bit, I was still happy and signed then and there.

No ********, straight to the point, and I got a top price.

[comagutsa]

while i was looking at the GS ute i went to a few ford dealers and they wanted to offer me $7K-$9k for my BA MK2 XR6 Magnet ute with my 2.5" exhaust, pacie extractors, growler cold air, 19" mags, Factory fitted LSD and heavy duty tow bar, manual only 59100kms in really excellent condition...i had to laugh at them (used to work in a dealership) sold it for $19500 that week

When i brought the BA new they wanted $41k drive away without the LSD fited or towbar
i got it for $36K on road with LSD and towball fitted and a year rego'd
big difference

i Just brought a 2010 new (98km) FG XR8 ute with leather from QLD for $35400 (unrego'd), it will cost me $1k to ship over and another $2k in stamp duty and stuff to get it rego'd in WA = new ute for $38500 which it $4K cheaper than what i could get here and i got it in the colour i wanted which i couldnt here