Responsible drivers cause more accidents than hoons

[vztrt]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/118766/r...-hoons-report/

Tittle is a bit over the top but the word hoon is thrown around a lot now.

Responsible drivers cause more accidents than hoons: report
By Brett Davis | May 16th, 2011

According to Professor D’Arcy Holman of the Road Safety Council of WA, hoons cause less crashes compared with more responsible, low-risk-taking drivers. He says it’s the majority that matters when it comes to the road toll and says the majority includes drivers that take low-risks on the road, such as those who frequently exceed the speed limit by only a little bit.

Prof Holman says it’s a myth that hoon drivers cause the worst havoc on the roads. He says general drivers who go over the speed limit on a regular basis cause around 3000 fatalities and serious accidents every year, whereas hoon-related accidents account for a smaller number of the overall road toll. He said in a recent The West Australian report,

“We certainly don’t want anti-social hoon behaviour on our roads but it’s the less conspicuous speeding behaviour of the general public that really matters in terms of safety outcomes. We need to target not so much the high-risk behaviour by a few but go after the majority.

“Hoon drivers massively increase their risk of a crash but the bottom line is not many people do that whereas you have many drivers going over the limit, which even by 5km/h doubles the risk of a crash.”

It’s certainly an interesting angle, especially as hoon drivers are typically regarded as the biggest contributor to the road toll as they are the easiest to target.

Prof Holman says figures from Main Roads show drivers have slowed down in the past ten years. In 2000, around 13 percent of drivers frequently sped by 10km/h or more. Last year, that figure was six percent.

He says the speed camera was probably the main cause in the reduction of speeders as motorists eventually got tired of paying fines.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Tittle is a bit over the top but the word hoon is thrown around a lot now.

I don't know about over the top, but definitely misleading. The funny part is, the 'related articles', the 'Speed doesn't kill - it's official', makes this article look like a complete lie...

[2011G6E]

I might actually go along with that...95% of people who are "hooning" will be watching out carefully for the cops and won't want to wreck thier pride and joy.
The other 5% are in crapbuckets who act like morons and deserve everything they get from the law.

Then we see what would be called "responsible drivers"...they dawdle along, sometimes take no notice of other road users and stare blankly ahead, and generally believe absolutely that if they stick to 5 or 10kph under the limit, they will never have an accident or get into any sort of trouble.

[THE CADBURY KID]

Instead of wasting money trying to handpass blame why doesnt the govt get more coppers on the roads, the only thing that will stop *********.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I might actually go along with that...95% of people who are "hooning" will be watching out carefully for the cops and won't want to wreck thier pride and joy.
The other 5% are in crapbuckets who act like morons and deserve everything they get from the law.

Then we see what would be called "responsible drivers"...they dawdle along, sometimes take no notice of other road users and stare blankly ahead, and generally believe absolutely that if they stick to 5 or 10kph under the limit, they will never have an accident or get into any sort of trouble.

haha yes those doing burnouts or street racing are watching out for cops and other traffic........ funny, very funny.

[Gobes32]

My dad's mate worked in insurance and the biggest risk bracket used to be women aged 40 - 80 as opposed to p-platers due to the amount of minor "accidents" they have. Whereas a p plater will not fix a dent in his guard due to the high excess they have to pay, the relatively low excess for that older drivers actually encouraged them to claim every little bit of damage they incurred on the vehicle.

Where young men especially lead the figures is in fatal crashes.........

[2011G6E]

Did I say "everyone" who is classed as a "hoon"? What overall percentage of drivers in done-up cars ever participate in street racing or burnouts? "Tiny" would be my best guess.

The local paper...Rockhampton Bulletin...several months back proudly showed a view of the police impound yard, where they had confiscated "seven hoon cars" over one weekend for burnouts and a street race. The cars in the photo were things like an old Toyota Camry, a ratty VN, an old Corolla, a battered trayback ute...stuff like that. Not one heavily worked and modified car, not one Nissan Skyline, Silvia, WRX, or "usual suspects" of the Fast and Furious gang, not one really nicely painted and done up car that was obviously someones valued pride and joy.
They were instead crapbuckets worth maybe $2000 each.

[Kryton]

The whole point to the article is to bring attention to those who do a couple of Km/h over the limit.
Basically giving the authorities ammunition to start aiming for zero tolerance speeding (revenue raising), all in the name of 'safety'

[2011G6E]

I think people might not have so much of a problem with them targetting "a couple of k's over"...

...as long as they also hammered those who drive 10kph under with no good or obvious reason.

[Dags557]

But notice those figures are for fatal AND serious injuries, all lumped in together, and that gives us a high number but completely irrelevent.
Of course when you also consider the amount of people driving a few k's over the limit compared to the number of true "hoons", then of course the numbers will be higher.
It's no different to complaining that the road toll rises every year, suggesting that it's getting worse, but NOT considering every year we add another 10,000 cars to the road. lol
This is nothing more than a justifiably jobless guy trying to justify his paypacket.

P.S 5 or 10kph over in a built up area will always be more dangerous than 5 or 10 k's over on a major highway or freeway, but that's not taken into consideration either.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by davway

The whole point to the article is to bring attention to those who do a couple of Km/h over the limit.
Basically giving the authorities ammunition to start aiming for zero tolerance speeding (revenue raising), all in the name of 'safety'

Unfortunately a good story ruined by a rubbish tittle. Didn't think it would be that bad...but what was I think on here.

[Dave R]

Where would humanity be without these vital (read: useless) studies. I'd love to know how they figured out that exactly 6 percent of drivers frequently speed by 10km/h or more.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I might actually go along with that...95% of people who are "hooning" will be watching out carefully for the cops and won't want to wreck thier pride and joy.
The other 5% are in crapbuckets who act like morons and deserve everything they get from the law.

Then we see what would be called "responsible drivers"...they dawdle along, sometimes take no notice of other road users and stare blankly ahead, and generally believe absolutely that if they stick to 5 or 10kph under the limit, they will never have an accident or get into any sort of trouble.

Thought there would be at least one that would interpret the message as it is safer to hoon than drive at or below the speed limit.

The point of the article was that the "safe and responsible" drivers doing 5km/h over etc simply outnumber the hoons by serious numbers. Hoons are still far more likely to be involved in incidents(deaths, serious injuries) but their comparitively small numbers means that large reduction in the road toll wont occur even if we got rid of all these dills.

[GreenR]

many drivers going over the limit, which even by 5km/h doubles the risk of a crash

Proof? Pfft what a laugh. Not that I endorse speeding in anyway

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Thought there would be at least one that would interpret the message as it is safer to hoon than drive at or below the speed limit.

The point of the article was that the "safe and responsible" drivers doing 5km/h over etc simply outnumber the hoons by serious numbers. Hoons are still far more likely to be involved in incidents(deaths, serious injuries) but their comparitively small numbers means that large reduction in the road toll wont occur even if we got rid of all these dills.

Despite the flack you have often copped...this makes sense to me.
Seems to be a classic (albeit very obvious) case of statistics being used very liberally to push a point

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I might actually go along with that...95% of people who are "hooning" will be watching out carefully for the cops and won't want to wreck thier pride and joy.
The other 5% are in crapbuckets who act like morons and deserve everything they get from the law.

Then we see what would be called "responsible drivers"...they dawdle along, sometimes take no notice of other road users and stare blankly ahead, and generally believe absolutely that if they stick to 5 or 10kph under the limit, they will never have an accident or get into any sort of trouble.

What does that all mean??

[Silver Ghia]

The article just shows that statistics can show anything. Of course with a much larger group, the incidence of crashes may be more, but the risk of a crash of an individual in the much larger group would most likely be actually much less, the fact which is totally ignored.

As usual it also totally ignores other major factors causing the crashes such as inattention, inappropriate speed according to conditions, breaking simple road rules like not giving way at intersections, etc.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

What does that all mean??

It means that when he is doing a burn out in a suburban street with his arm out the window and all his mates watching, he is paying great attension to his surrounds, such as the noise, speed laws and to all the residents outside approaching with baseball bats....

[Supercharged]

Quote, He says the speed camera was probably the main cause in the reduction of speeders as motorists eventually got tired of paying fines end quote
If that were true then how would you explain the record amounts collected each year by speed cameras.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by davway

The whole point to the article is to bring attention to those who do a couple of Km/h over the limit.
Basically giving the authorities ammunition to start aiming for zero tolerance speeding (revenue raising), all in the name of 'safety'

And 'action'! Yup.

[Rockape]

Originally Posted by davway

The whole point to the article is to bring attention to those who do a couple of Km/h over the limit.
Basically giving the authorities ammunition to start aiming for zero tolerance speeding (revenue raising), all in the name of 'safety'

I think you have it in the bag.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The local paper...Rockhampton Bulletin...several months back proudly showed a view of the police impound yard, where they had confiscated "seven hoon cars" over one weekend for burnouts and a street race. The cars in the photo were things like an old Toyota Camry, a ratty VN, an old Corolla, a battered trayback ute...stuff like that. Not one heavily worked and modified car, not one Nissan Skyline, Silvia, WRX, or "usual suspects" of the Fast and Furious gang, not one really nicely painted and done up car that was obviously someones valued pride and joy.
They were instead crapbuckets worth maybe $2000 each.

One of my friends has a very nice VH SL/E, with a worked 308. Although he appears to be the perfect hoon, he never drives stupidly or speeds in it because A, he is an easy target, and B, he has spent too much money on the car to stuff it up showing off to some kids.........

[MAD]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

It means that when he is doing a burn out in a suburban street with his arm out the window and all his mates watching, he is paying great attension to his surrounds, such as the noise, speed laws and to all the residents outside approaching with baseball bats....

I hate this example being used when the discussion is about the road toll.
How many people have died, or been seriously injurred, from a burnout/donut?
Dont take that as a sartcastic question (well maybe half) but seriously, find the stats for me.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by MAD

I hate this example being used when the discussion is about the road toll.
How many people have died, or been seriously injurred, from a burnout/donut?
Dont take that as a sartcastic question (well maybe half) but seriously, find the stats for me.

There has been a few cases, but not that many. When I was at court with my friend. He was being charged under the anti hoon laws. The police brought up an example of a incident in America. Where a person was doing doughnuts and lost control and went into a crowd. I even think it was at a legal event, but not 100 percent sure on this. So as for people being killed while doing burnouts. I do not think there is that many cases.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by xisled

There has been a few cases, but not that many. When I was at court with my friend. He was being charged under the anti hoon laws. The police brought up an example of a incident in America. Where a person was doing doughnuts and lost control and went into a crowd. I even think it was at a legal event, but not 100 percent sure on this. So as for people being killed while doing burnouts. I do not think there is that many cases.

If my memory serves me, That was an Australian guy in a full blown drag car, that killed spectators. The car wasn't even supposed to be on the road. He was also a very experienced racer too, and there was no barriers etc for safety. How this particular incident is compared to a road driven car is beyond me.

If there was a separate incident to this, I retract the above.

[sleek7]

Originally Posted by plarazza

Proof? Pfft what a laugh. Not that I endorse speeding in anyway

Glad I'm not the only one who picked up on that piece of rubbish.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by xisled

There has been a few cases, but not that many. When I was at court with my friend. He was being charged under the anti hoon laws. The police brought up an example of a incident in America. Where a person was doing doughnuts and lost control and went into a crowd. I even think it was at a legal event, but not 100 percent sure on this. So as for people being killed while doing burnouts. I do not think there is that many cases.

Troy Cricthley...It was an organised event, he was invited to perform.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/motorspor...s_cid=rss_news

[wrongwaynorris]

“drivers going over the limit, which even by 5km/h doubles the risk of a crash.”

What an absolute and utter load of frogshit . Considering 99 % of our roads have ridiculously low speed limits and our relative low number of drivers and our vast road network . By these guys reckoning about half a million Germans should be either killed , maimed or involved in major accidents every year . Jump into a diesel Benz 230 taxi at Frankfurt main Airport and you'll be doing 180 KPH all the way to the centre of Frankfurt . Our absolute maximum speed limit anywhere in Australia is 110 KPH .Bottom line is generally speaking most Australians could not drive a greasy matchstick up a dogs **** , Australians as a race have never really come to terms with the motor car . Anyone who drives regularly in the US or Europe will know exactly what I am talking about . We need to start teaching people to drive not just pass a test aswell as correcting the mentality in Australia that driving is a right not a privelege . We also desperately need to teach courtesy and common sense on the roads , two things 90% of Australian drivers simply do not posses .

[351henryv8]

When I was young I did silly things in cars such as handbrakes and having races with other cars and generally driving fast. I got away with it until I put the XW into a tree. There were a few contributing factors which lead to the tree incident. 1. Balding 265/50/14 rear tyres, off camber corner in wet, steering suspension not 100%, speeding (80 in 60), and alcohol (not charged, not a high reading, limit was .08 back then!). The XW was a write off and the decent copper booked me for neg driving. That was 21 years ago. Now days I drive more safely in a much safer (and safer hadnling) car, however I still like to stay ahead of the traffic and I normally sit on about 105-108 in ACT NSW 100 sections as this keeps me ahead of the volvos. No offence intended to you 351 powered volva owners! Anyway my point is yes young kids do silly things but now in my 40s I admit to speeding on a regular basis. I believe if the road is clear, (you cant see anyone), and the conditions are good (no rain etc) on the open road 120kph should be allowed for experienced drivers. As long as they slow down a safe speed for a corner they cant see around or as soon as they see another car. Also having lived in the NT while there were no speed limits until recently, I believe that driving at around 130-140 (the current NT speed limit is 130 on SOME open roads) is much more energising (sorry cant think of another word) than sitting on 100. i.e. you dont get the YAWNS at 130kph (at least I didn't, and I did about 50 days of this sort of driving whilst in the NT, even overtook a copper with no probs, so long as you dont drive DANGEROUSLY.

[351henryv8]

Oh yes sorry and I agree with wrongwaynorris speeding by 5 kph can NOT possibly double the risk of a crash. There must be other factors.