Realistic rim sizes...

[2011G6E]

Just wondering what experiences people have had with the factory rims on their Falcons...

I've noticed over the years that the standard rim size has been growing steadily. I remember when 13" and 14" wheels were the norm, with a few 15's here and there. Then 15's became normal, and the odd performance car would have 16's.
Commodore and Falcon then went to 16's as a standard size, and now we see 17's, 18's, and 19's as standard sizes on some models. Our G6E has a set of G6E Turbo 19" wheels on it, already fitted to the car by the dealer, with a matching spare wheel, and at no extra cost on the purchase price.
I suspect I know why...more on that later.

The point is this: How big is "too big" for the real world?

Out here, one guy I know has a XR6 Turbo with 19's, and he has already wrecked two tyres. Another woman at work has a new XR6 Turbo, and she literally destroyed two rims hitting a big pothole on the highway down near Gympie. I find myself almost driving in a state of paranoia when the road surface turns into it's usual crap condition with potholes, drop-offs, and high ridges pushed up by trucks. Parking lots are a drive-like-a-little-old-lady exercise to stay away from kerbs.
Most people I've spoken to with 18 and 19 inch wheels seem to be all of the same opinion: the wheels look great, but in the real world they're just asking for trouble. At least three people I know have gone back to 17's from larger factory wheels, and when it comes time for us to replace the tyres, we may just sell the 19's and go with a wheel and tyre package of 17's...something with a bit of sidewall at least.
I suspect that our G6E has the 19" turbo wheels fitted (instead of the standard 17's) because someone who bought a G6E Turbo didn't want to be lumbered with the expense and potential damaging of 19" wheels on typical central Queensland roads, so our car ended up with a free set of 19's which they swapped for the cheaper 17" wheels off our G6E.

So what size tyre do people think is suitable for the "real world" in thier area?
Just asking around workmates of mine, the consensus would seem to be 17's at most. Style is nice, but reality can bite hard sometimes.

[LOCO XP]

From my experience with the wife's XR6T I'd agree with 17" for practical use on a later model car. However wind back the clock to our EF Fairmont which had 17"x8"s and I'd probably say 15". It was absolutely rubbish to drive (noisy regardless of tyre choice, aquaplane on a raindrop etc), but since we gave it to the inlaws and they tossed the alloys and put steel 15"s on it she is a dream to drive. The BA on 17"s is great though. It has a good amount of sidewall on the tyres, affordable to replace, and handling is great. Flip the coin I have 13"s on my EH and they are also great and make it handle like a formula 1 car (not really....although I think they still run 13"s in F1...), and although they are small to look at they make the old wagon sit nice and low. Probably a few extra revs at highway speed, although not so bad now since changing to a sensible cruisy diff ratio. And not much choice for tyres now. I miss having Eagers with white lettering. back on topic, these brilliant looking wheels that are offered are getting a bit absurd, rims should not protrude wider than the tyre wall itself. bring back the days of squeezing a tyre way too wide for the rim for that classic balloon effect. 15"x7" with a 265/65 or something.

[onfire]

It's really style over substance. In alot of ways. People want larger rims for looks and I guess whatever performance it enhances. Why fight the trend if you're in the business of building cars?

I think 17" is probably a realistic size. And even coming back onto style, most smaller wheels would look stupid, considering the size of wheel arches, body-kits and stance of today's average cars.

[mik]

personally i would go 17`s and no more, with the tyre profile reducing with each size larger rim i reckon on our roads,
larger rims is to have more probability of rim/tyre damage, never had a problem with the 16`s on my xr6, my young brother bought me some flash hr racing wheels with 255/35/18 tyres a couple of years ago, no doubt they handle better on the limit to some extent , but on the down side they ride harder(eek already had hard shockers), like you 2011G6E, i`m also paranoid and careful about pot holes now, i might add my young brother has the same wheels and has had 2 re rolled and repaired,
i guess if your lucky enough to frequent good roads all the time its probably not such a drama, but around melbourne and victorian roads in general there`s some nasty bits of road , also with the big wheels low profile tyres air pressure has gone up from the old days , i can remember my mums old cortina 1966 model with the the tyre placard on the door for the 13 inch razor blades saying iirc 24 lbs normal 28 lbs highway , hmmm , handling was scarey in those days hheheh, you never felt a bump though.

[NAK302]

the roads around here are quite ordinary. i know of a BF GT owner who hit a pot hole near the Eton range, actually broke his windscreen from the hit, not to mention the 2 rims and tyres that got destroyed. after driving around Brisbane the other week i'm pretty sure i know where our hard earned dollars are.
anyway, going back 10 years ago in Townsville, we owned a EF Fairmont which we fitted 16" wheels and 50 series rubber. this was around normal back then for semi performance. potholes or road damage was never an issue to the wheels. since then we've moved to the BA GT which now wears 19" and 35 series rubber, which driving (or maneuvering) is quite a task on our goat tracks. the problem being, i doubt the 16/17/18 rims available will fit over my Brembo's.
i solved my problem by buying a Mazda BT-50 4x4 for eveyday driving and keeping the GT in the shed for pleasant cruise days.

[SSD-85]

I think we have reached the peak of how big wheel sizes fitted to cars go. I dont see manufacturers fitting anything beyond 19" to cars.

tbh, Im not really fussed on these large wheel sizes. But in saying that, a set of 15" alloys wouldnt look all that great on a FG GT either.

[EB#]

I'm of the opinion that the optimum 'balanced choice' between comfort and
performance for the BA/BF/FG is probably the 17" wheel/tyre combo.

Having said that, I do run 18's with 245/40's on my BA as I wanted the
slightly larger rim for looks although the previous 17's performed better.
I run these tyres at 38 cold and have not dinged one up yet (touch wood)
.... on country NSW roads and highways.

I tend to think larger rims such as the 18's, 19's and particularly the 20's offer
no performance increase at all, and just make for a progressively harsher ride
for the seat and the suspension components, as well as the potential for
pot hole damage as mentioned. These wheels do however cater for larger
brakes if required and/or the big wheel look, but with the result of a
comparatively ordinary ride.

Interestingly, F1 cars go pretty well with 13" rims and big tyres !

[Polyal]

Well some say that it's just technology and evolution but I agree, there comes a limit.

Personally 17s are as big as I want to really go for a daily. Weekenders, sports cars etc is open slather though.

Your certainly gain nothing from going to 19s for example on the fg xrs. But the ride quality is just as dependent on tyre profile aswell...some tyres getting around look like rubber painted on.

All just depends on the driving you do. Having all these options are great for the initial purchase but many don't even think about running costs...that's when it hurts.

[Jim Goose]

I always cringe when i see 18in and larger rims on "classic" cars, the ride must be truely awful! (not to mention it doesnt suit the car).

[302 XC]

Interesting Q
Theres talk about that the smaller rims with the higher side wall tyres had better give in the tyre as opposed to the thin band side wall
Theres hardly much mention of rim damage years ago when it was all realistic
Reading a popular O/S magazine
30 million $$$ a year to tyre /rim damage from roads O/S
Theres mention near weekly in the local rag ,regarding some wombat smashing rims
Im rural,the roads are rubbish,sometimes common sense does prevail

[2011G6E]

I had always heard about road noise with bigger rims, but previously the "biggest" wheels we ever had was a set of factory 16's on a VX Lumina.
Now with the G6E and 19's, I know exactly what they mean.

Yes, the more people I ask the more I hear "17's are the best".

Manufacturers probably have reached a plateau with rim sizes...I can't ever see expensive 18's and 19's being a standard fitment to every day models. However, I was reading in the latest "4WD Action" magazine that the new Nissan Patrol fourbie may be coming out with 20" alloy wheels as standard, and the writer was lamenting the fact that if you were in remote (and some not so remote) areas, you'd have a hard time finding a tyre...not to mention tyre manufacturers don't make a wide range of different sorts of 20" off road tyres. The problem wouldn't be fixed by "simply" fitting the common 16" size wheels, as they probably wouldn't fit on the vehicle.

Be interesting to see what happens in the future.

[AWD Chaser]

This discussion come up at work the other day.

I have 20" on the VY HSV. I think they look great and fill up the wheel well perfectly as it isnt lowered.

But in saying that, I would prefer the 18's I had on my Senator anyday in every aspect.

With the lower profile tyre wall, you need to have an increased pressure. With the tyre wall being so shorton big rims, with an increased pressure, you get less of a footprint on the road. This makes it hard to keep traction in the dry under hard acceleration, and near impossible in the wet. It also makes it useless to handle in any wet condition.

Also, because of the reduced footprint, you have a larger amount of weight spread over a smaller area - this is bad for two things - when you hit a pothole, it hits with more force, as the weight is not spread over a larger area, and two, when I drive onto my lawn, the wheels just sink in because again, the weight isn't spread.

The other disadvantage of rubber bands, is when going up angled kerbs/driveways - if you hit it too hard (quickly), there is a good change you will scratch your rim when the tyre deforms out from the impact.

One last thing I noticed which I really dislike, is how much direct feel you get through the steering wheel. Its like I have wheel weights missing - Every little bump is sent through to the steering which makes it shake and wobble because the tyres aren't cushy enough to absorb little bumps, etc.

Pics of my 18's vs 20's

[Mr Hardware]

17" is max unless you hate comfort and your spine
personally i stick with 16" to hop them gutters

also, tyres are light and wheels are heavy. go google 'unsprung weight' if you're a clown with big rims

[XR Martin]

Porsche have said for a road car 16" and 17" is the ideal size, and have only gone bigger for looks and for public perception.

[XD 351 Ute]

I've got some 16's for the XD, 15's on the XG and will be going from 15 to 16's on the Faimont shortly.
Any bigger on older cars looks out of place I think, yeah the ride quality is a big factor.

Ed

[SM1DY]

I have 20in wheels with a 245/30 tyre on it and the ride is so firm and uncomfortable and bad roads it is torture. If I had my time over again I'd probably stick to the factory 17's because they weren't bone jarring over rough surfaces.

[svo supporter]

16", as they have more side wall, therefore more chance of picking up on that air pressure loss. Oh and more comfort driving and less rim damage.

[2011G6E]

I remember that the Porsche 959 supercar, a four wheel drive twin turbo monster, had "huge" 17" wheels when it was released...at the time the Commodores and Falcons all had 14's and 15" wheels. We couldn't imagine a wheel that "massive".

It's also interesting that Formula One cars still have high-profile rubber on 13" rims.
They also say that a Formula One steering wheel be "as large as possible given cockpit constraints" to reduce steering effort.

I suppose that this sort of discussion is linked to "how small is too small for a sports steering wheel?". I used to have a 12" wheel fitted to a TE Cortina. I sold that wheel as it was just rediculous...hard to turn, and you couldn't see half the instruments. Then I went to a 13" wheel, which still hangs on my shed wall. Peter Brock said in a magazine article that 14" was the minimum size he would fit to a road car...or race car for that matter...as you have reduced steering effort and better feel.
Of course now with manditory air bags, the sports steering wheel industry is kind of meaningless to most people as they will never change thier steering wheel, unless you have an old car.

Looks like with rims there is a limit to how big you can go in practical terms, the same as we used to find a limit to how small a steering wheel can be in practical terms.

[SSD-85]

^^^ I suppose that explains why a BA XT steers like a tractor with those 15" steelies & small steering wheel.

[Road_Warrior]

The reason standard rim sizes started getting bigger is because brake rotors were getting bigger due to increased kerb weight of modern cars. All of those extra safety features, interior knick-knacks and UHSS in the passenger cell comes at a cost and that is weight. We're pretty much at the zenith with cars in this regard.

As for rim sizes on 'performance' and luxury cars...I suspect its all market driven and driven by the 'coolness' factor more so than the practicalities of it. Factory options to upsize make it a much easier decision for many.

[You Yangs]

Originally Posted by Scotty85

^^^ I suppose that explains why a BA XT steers like a tractor with those 15" steelies & small steering wheel.

NO BA ever came with 15" wheels. 16" minimum from BA onwards because of brake caliper size. I run my AU with 16" and 225/55/16 tyres and tyre price is the main reason for this although 17" would be my pick for performance/comfort balance.

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by You Yangs

NO BA ever came with 15" wheels. 16" minimum from BA onwards because of brake caliper size. I run my AU with 16" and 225/55/16 tyres and tyre price is the main reason for this although 17" would be my pick for performance/comfort balance.

Well I stand corrected on size detail. I agree with you on 17" being the best pick, and due the more ridiculous sizes becoming mainstream, it has made tyres for this size a lot cheaper than what they once were.

[mik]

the wheel shop guys love them , they know it won`t be long before they get repeat customers, they all drive flash cars and big 4w drives . one other thing ,
Edit: i reckon the big wheels with low profiles and higher pressures are also harder on suspension, the older style tyres with a bit more sidewall and less pressure soaked up a bit more of the pot hole shocks.

[Giant Cranium]

love the 16s for driving over anything in my comodore
when i had the xr8 ute i went from 18s to 20s and did not notice the bigger wheels at all.
id get 20s anyday but you just cant hit potholes or drive quickly up gutters

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

It's also interesting that Formula One cars still have high-profile rubber on 13" rims.
.

The higher profile rubber on these cars acts as part of the shock dampening.

V8 supercars run something like a 60 series tyre. (280/60X17 if my memory serves me correctly)

Lower profile tyres don't absorb the bumps in the road as effectively as higher profiles. Hence part of the reason later model cars like falcons suffer from inside edge damage on the rims.

[Big Bird 17]

The factory 18's off my GT are sitting in the shed buckled from the roads up here.I've got Speedys on it as replacements and i bet they're are'nt in the best of condition after driving down to Brisbane and back at xmas time.I had to buy a replacement tyre and rim in Brisbane after hitting a huge hole on the way down.You have to weave all over the road driving in Mackay at the moment to avoid damaging your rims.Thank goodness for the XG.

[JC]

19s with 255/50s are ideal for the Territory. Big rim, and still lots of sidewall.

[Big Bird 17]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

The higher profile rubber on these cars acts as part of the shock dampening.

V8 supercars run something like a 60 series tyre. (280/60X17 if my memory serves me correctly)

Lower profile tyres don't absorb the bumps in the road as effectively as higher profiles. Hence part of the reason later model cars like falcons suffer from inside edge damage on the rims.

Here is the part i hate,the control rims cost $700 each and the factory rims off my BA GT cost $1200 to replace.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Big Bird 17

Here is the part i hate,the control rims cost $700 each and the factory rims off my BA GT cost $1200 to replace.

They should sell them, but with normal stud patterns. They'd probably have to make them a bit narrower to fit under a standard guard, but they'd be a good buy, especially since they should presumably fit over Brembo's since they fit over the 275mm Alcon's used in the V8's.

[sudszy]

Each to their own, but the low profile rims on offer, just look like "pimp my ride" to me. And the look of bright red, yellow brake calipers showing through, they could do with a decent hubcap!

Tradies with utes that have tyres that look like they dont even inflate with a bee's dick of ground clearance? practical? take one on a building site?