FPV 2011 First half Sales

**russellw** · 13-07-2011, 07:08 AM

Good morning

The FPV and Ford performance model sales statistics for the first half of 2011 are now uploaded into the Tech portal.

The higlights include a substantially better first half compared to last year with the 800 sales representing a 35% improvement and a major shift in the model mix away from the 6T.

Amongst the low-lights are the absence of the Pursuit pairing from the sales charts along with the 360 lost XR8 sales.

Cheers
Russ

**Grunter** · 13-07-2011, 06:35 PM

Great info as always. Thanks Russ!

GTP-03 · 13-07-2011, 06:43 PM

whats the gp margin between fpv and hsv for the last financial year?

Quicksand · 14-07-2011, 11:12 AM

Very, very interesting. It looks like the month of May was a close thing, with FPV nearly outselling HSV. Not a bad effort considering the Ute dominance of HSV.

Well done Ford/FPV for adding some cracker models/engines to the lineup. One wonders if this is a honeymoon thing or a permanent change to the sales margins. Hopefully the F6 is costing FPV so little in development that they can justify holding onto it despite the slowing sales in recent months.

jpd80 · 14-07-2011, 05:22 PM

SS Sedan 877
SS-V sedan 1153
SS Ute 922
SS-V Ute 805
SS Sportwagon 279
SS-V Sportwagon 480
Holden Brand V8 sales: 4,516

HSV Sedan and Ute 1557
Total SWB V8 Holden Sales: 6073

XR6T Sedan 413
XR8 10
G6ET 371
XR6T Ute 231
XR8 Ute 1
Ford Brand 6T/V8 sales: 1,026

FPV V8 676
FPV 6T 124

Total Ford/FPV 6T/V8 sales: 1826

SS and SS-V variants are out selling Ford Brand I-6T and remnant XR8 stock
by around 4.5 to 1 while HSV are still outselling FPV by just under 2 to1.

What this says to me is that Holden SS and SS-V are hitting accord with
its target audience while the I-6T seems to be waning in popularity...

Call me stupid but I think Ford are possibly losing performance and luxury
performance sales by not having competitive V8 products to offer buyers
in the Ford brand, FPV might be OK but maybe we need a nice XR8 and
G8E to woo a few high end sales back to Ford...

R-Design · 14-07-2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Call me stupid but I think Ford are possibly losing performance and luxury
performance sales by not having competitive V8 products to offer buyers
in the Ford brand, FPV might be OK but maybe we need a nice XR8 and
G8E to woo a few high end sales back to Ford...

Amazing how everyone seems to acknowledge this... except Ford.

When you consider GS numbers are actually de facto XR numbers, the performance of their current strategy is even worse.

SteveJH · 14-07-2011, 05:48 PM

An XR8 with a crate coyote at a similar price point to the XR6T should do it nicely.

It'll be more powerful then the SS and it would hopefully use less fuel then the SS. Not sure how it would compare in speed to the XR6T, but i'm also not sure how much of an issue that is.

ACEz · 14-07-2011, 05:50 PM

Great info and sales data, Good job!

KuRT12 · 14-07-2011, 06:02 PM

Interesting figures, good job to ford on the new engine.

jpd80 · 14-07-2011, 06:27 PM

I'm hoping that by progressive development, Ford can deliver
changes like these without blowing their budget:

New XR8 = GS (48K)

New GS = GS + GT Engine tune + Brembo Front Brakes ($60K)

New GT = GT + Intercooled GT engine ($77K)

It would also be nice to see a G8E with same internal and
external looks as G6ET but with the XR8's bonnet.....($60K)

SteveJH · 14-07-2011, 06:30 PM

The current GS engine costs to much to go into a car sold at the XR8/XR6T/SS price point, there is a reason they at their current price.

jpd80 · 14-07-2011, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

The current GS engine costs to much to go into a car sold at the XR8/XR6T/SS price point, there is a reason they at their current price.

GS was to be XR8 but was switched at the last moment...Ford were ready to go with an XR8
but an 11th hour decision by FPV wanting the GS put the kybosh on the XR8 for Ford.
We have no way for knowing for sure what the price of that XR8 would have been
but to be competitive with Holden it would have to have been a similar price, do you agree?

SteveJH · 14-07-2011, 06:49 PM

I agree that to compete against holden it would need to be at that price, however that doesnt mean that they were *going* to try compete against holden.

KuRT12 · 14-07-2011, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

... put the kybosh on the XR8 for Ford.

lol

Archilino · 14-07-2011, 07:51 PM

Norm would have a field day with those numbers! So the 59k driveaway for the F6 a failure or too soon to tell?

Windsor220 · 14-07-2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

Amazing how everyone seems to acknowledge this... except Ford.

Its been said so many times on here but when Ford did offer those models, NOBODY BOUGHT THEM. As a business decision there is no point in them spending millions of dollars developing an XR8/G6E with a N/A V8 for only a measly 100 or so extra sales a month.

Cabbage · 14-07-2011, 09:21 PM

The obvious hole in the ford/fpv is a competitor for the ss. If you want a ford and a v8 you have to buy at least a gs which is too pricey for the majority. The ss sells well because it gives people what they want, a well priced sporty sedan with strong v8 engine. Not that it's bare bones but the majority don't want the clubsport etc, the ss price point/package is where the sales are at. Why didn't xr8 sell well previously? The ss perceived to have a better engine, marketing, some opted for the better performing turbo 6. I would bet my last dollar if you put the coyote in a moderately well equipped xr8 that is affordable it will sell like hotcakes. An fg xr8 would look better imo and with the coyote even with a little less kws than the gs it would do well against the ss. There are heaps of people out there who want a ford v8 but can't justify the price of a gs. Tell me an xr8 coytoe would sell, ss utes are everywhere, xr8 would look better, have a better engine, handle better?? What are the stats, a ridiculously high number of commodores sold are v8's that has to tell ford something.

naddis01 · 14-07-2011, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Its been said so many times on here but when Ford did offer those models, NOBODY BOUGHT THEM. As a business decision there is no point in them spending millions of dollars developing an XR8/G6E with a N/A V8 for only a measly 100 or so extra sales a month.

But did they not buy them because no one wanted them or did they not buy them because the product didn't meet the expectations of the consumer or the competition was seen to have a better product?

Brazen · 14-07-2011, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

SS Sedan 877
SS-V sedan 1153
SS Ute 922
SS-V Ute 805
SS Sportwagon 279
SS-V Sportwagon 480
Holden Brand V8 sales: 4,516

HSV Sedan and Ute 1557
Total SWB V8 Holden Sales: 6073

XR6T Sedan 413
XR8 10
G6ET 371
XR6T Ute 231
XR8 Ute 1
Ford Brand 6T/V8 sales: 1,026

FPV V8 676
FPV 6T 124

Total Ford/FPV 6T/V8 sales: 1826

If the G6ET is included, what are the Calais V V8 and Calais V V8 Sportwagon figures?

Cabbage · 14-07-2011, 09:44 PM

Sorry guys but the more I think about it the more I think ford have got it wrong. I'm sure ford hav smarter people than me working out the vehicle strategy but! The ss works because its a simple idea and it gives people what they want. For most people a gt or gs or clubsport or gts is a bit much, a step too far if you like. They're not for everyone. I think a lot of people want their car to be a bit sportier but not too much, to have plenty of power but nothing too over the top, too look good but not too much. The ss is all these things, sporty but not too much, powerful but not too much, looks good but not too lairy and built to pretty competitive price. I think for some to have to stump up for a gs or it is a step too far, just a bit too much. An xr8 would be the perfect compromise on handling, power, price, looks. Correct me if I'm wrong but the xr8 previously has never really been seen as clearly a better vehicle than the comparitive model. Now when ford has an engine that could put the xr8 as a clearly better option to an ss, the xr8 is put on the back shelf. I think they've got it wrong.

SteveJH · 14-07-2011, 09:52 PM

The problem is though, the FG XR8 didn't sell very many units, why should ford think a new XR8 would go any differently?

jpd80 · 14-07-2011, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

If the G6ET is included, what are the Calais V V8 and Calais V V8 Sportwagon figures?

Russ didn't post those figures but some quick math on the market percentage puts total
Holden V8s up around 6,700 so I'd say the Calais variants add another 600 odd sales.

Bottom line, Holden sells around 13,000 V8 cars per year, Ford/FPV would be lucky to get a third of that...

jpd80 · 14-07-2011, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

The problem is though, the FG XR8 didn't sell very many units, why should ford think a new XR8 would go any differently?

It didn't sell well because as a performance car it was seen as weak kneed against the V8 Holden,
motoring journos hatchet job on its reputation for years..... Ford could do precious little to save it.

With FPV shouldering the amortization costs, anXR8 and G8E would be seen as incremental - not new models.

Brazen · 14-07-2011, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

It didn't sell well because as a performance car it was seen as weak kneed against the V8 Holden,
motoring journos hatchet job on its reputation for years..... Ford could do precious little to save it.

With FPV shouldering the amortization costs, anXR8 and G8E would be seen as incremental - not new models.

A new XR8 would kick Holden's ****, so many cars are bought on reputation or online reviews nowadays.. The new V8 Ford would get a lot of interest.

People are a lot less brand loyal nowadays, if a better package comes out from a competitor it will do well. Its not the 1970s anymore where there are Holden people or Ford people, heck look at the million different brands people buy.

Bossxr8 · 15-07-2011, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

What this says to me is that Holden SS and SS-V are hitting accord with
its target audience while the I-6T seems to be waning in popularity...

The I6T had waned a bit early in the year but it has been going through a sales spurt at the moment, build numbers have doubled over the past 2 months.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archilino

Norm would have a field day with those numbers! So the 59k driveaway for the F6 a failure or too soon to tell?

Build numbers have increased for F6, we are building more of them since the price drop so based on that you'd have to say it has worked, but its never going to be a huge seller.

jpd80 · 16-07-2011, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The I6T had waned a bit early in the year but it has been going through a sales spurt at the moment, build numbers have doubled over the past 2 months.

Build numbers have increased for F6, we are building more of them since the price drop so based on that you'd have to say it has worked, but its never going to be a huge seller.

Good to hear I-6 Turbo is having an up tick in sales...

I have a theory that Falcon's target audience are very price sensitive with most of the sales are grouped
in the $35K-$45K range, anything above that price is really low volume and probably out of most buyers reach anyway..

So, while XR6 (or G6) at $34,990 drive away plus $2,000 cash offer is very attractive, the drive away price for
XR6T at $49,990 is still seen as too steep given XR6s price, there's no way an XR6T costs $15,000 more to build.
And yes, I know the more you drop the price, the return to for is less but could add a fair bit of production too...

I wonder If Ford can go more aggressive on pricing.. I can understand Ford wanting to maintain price integrity on
higher series vehicles and it seems that they are prepared to build to order rather than chase the low $40K buyer....

SteveJH · 16-07-2011, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

With FPV shouldering the amortization costs, anXR8 and G8E would be seen as incremental - not new models.

Why should FPV shoulder the cost on a Ford model? In addition, its going to be a long time before Miami pays itself off, if ever, at current sales volume.

jpd80 · 16-07-2011, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Why should FPV shoulder the cost on a Ford model? In addition, its going to be a long time before Miami pays itself off, if ever, at current sales volume.

Unless you have access to FPV costing you cannot say that for sure, FPV has said that they
expect to recover costs and then some over the next five years without any sales to FoA...
(Here's a clue, 1,000 engines a year amortizing $10,000 each for four years = $40 million)

My suggestion was that if FPV are already shouldering the cost of developing the Miami
then an XR8 would be incremental volume and supportive in amortizing those costs even quicker...

Elks · 16-07-2011, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

The problem is though, the FG XR8 didn't sell very many units, why should ford think a new XR8 would go any differently?

Product is everything. You can sell rotten fruit, Not that the old 5.4 boss was rotten, but it was percieved as a lesser product than the 6.0 holden and its 4.0T brother. By comparison the 5.0 coyote is lighter more compact, more powerful, more torquey, more fuel efficient.

One of the impediments to getting the XR8 back is in fact supply. Ford US can't keep up with demand for 5.0 Mustangs and F150's making it harder for Ford aus to put the befits case to Dearborn.

my 2c

jpd80 · 16-07-2011, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elks

Product is everything. You can sell rotten fruit, Not that the old 5.4 boss was rotten, but it was percieved as a lesser product than the 6.0 holden and its 4.0T brother. By comparison the 5.0 coyote is lighter more compact, more powerful, more torquey, more fuel efficient.

One of the impediments to getting the XR8 back is in fact supply. Ford US can't keep up with demand for 5.0 Mustangs and F150's making it harder for Ford aus to put the befits case to Dearborn.

my 2c

Factory demand for the 5.0 isn't as heavy as you think, around 45% of all
F150s sold are 5.0 V8s, 45% are Ecoboost V6 and the rest 3.7 NA V6s.
It's the same with Mustang, the sales mix is around 50/50 V6/V8.

Your point on the previous 5.4 is valid, the perception was of a high tech engine that didn't compete well with the Chev 6.0.
Regardless of that, the XR8 was PERCEIVED as being sub par by its intended buying audience so they didn't buy it, that's why it failed.

Ford's new 5.0 and the supercharged version is an absolute beauty and probably worthy of around $50K-$52K as an XR8
but part of me would be equally happy seeing an entry level 280 KW/500nm NA Crate 5.0 pitched around $42K-$43K,
I think a lot of novated lease buyers might be swayed to have a sweet little economical V8 as their company ride.....