LSA - how soon before HSV introduces it?

Resurrection · 22-09-2011, 09:06 PM

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/d...-2l-superchar/

http://www.nitrobahn.com/news/chevro...t-camaro-ever/

It would make mince meat of FPVs Miami engine.

AMGC63 · 22-09-2011, 09:08 PM

Too expensive, plus LSA will be nearly defunct by the time HSV update in 2013, they will get the new DI 5.5 donk.

jpd80 · 22-09-2011, 10:13 PM

They can do better locally as Ford/FPV have recently shown, a locally sourced Harrop blower kit is the way to fly...

Road_Warrior · 22-09-2011, 10:33 PM

I'd like to see that pass Euro V.

And besides, Ford still have the 5.8 litre Coyote to play with.

RAPID_BA · 22-09-2011, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resurrection

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/d...-2l-superchar/

http://www.nitrobahn.com/news/chevro...t-camaro-ever/

It would make mince meat of FPVs Miami engine.

Couldnt ford just pull out the windsor 5.0 efi from the ef if holden/hsv tries to attack the miami with a lsa? (jokes)

sexyxe · 23-09-2011, 07:48 AM

Nice!

FG_Frodza · 23-09-2011, 09:20 AM

Ford made it clear when they brought out the 5.0L that they have plenty of room to play with the boost pressure, and then there is the 5.8L Miami which is something else altogether.. 5.8L GTHO?

GT69 · 23-09-2011, 09:37 AM

Wouldn't ford just re-badge the cars closer to there real power output. That should keep Holden/HSV in check for a few years to come. F6 360 and GT 400 sounds good to me.

Falco GT51 · 23-09-2011, 02:36 PM

Sorry to be off topic but is there any news on the 5.8L Miami??

Rodge · 23-09-2011, 02:45 PM

FPV have plenty of headroom with the Coyote howler, especially with an intercooler fitted to it

Gobes32 · 23-09-2011, 05:20 PM

Can't help but wonder how much power does a family car REALLY need?

Franco Cozzo · 23-09-2011, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Can't help but wonder how much power does a family car REALLY need?

Not too much.

But you can never have too much torque

Gobes32 · 23-09-2011, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Not too much.

But you can never have too much torque

My uncle drives a 16L Cummins you would love then..........

I always thought 300kw was the ceiling, and yet we have smashed straight through it.

HSE2 · 23-09-2011, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resurrection

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/d...-2l-superchar/

http://www.nitrobahn.com/news/chevro...t-camaro-ever/

It would make mince meat of FPVs Miami engine.

Some say 2012 - 2013 for the next full upgrade of the Commodore so HSV will be around that time I would have thought. To make that sort of time line the engine would be signed off now and probably be in testing.
While I don't really care what HSV do in terms of how they go about the job at hand, it would be somewhat disappointing that such displacement requires a supercharger. It's sort of hard to image why with such displacement they can't stick with N/A or if they are downsizing like the rest of the world, twin turbo or a S/C option then.

If at day's end it has the performance and the economy the only stumbling block it might have is image and the world is changing on that front.
I like big displacement engines in the N/A form. They should be able to get FPV matching performance from that sort of displacement for mine and they could if they wanted to. Today I expect HSV to push the boundaries and the next generation I would expect to lift the game and the bar that much higher as was the case with Ve, but an engine trapped in the past is something I have questions and concerns on. If the LSA is fitted and I think it probably will be, I do wonder how long it will be before HSV move with the rest of GM and head to a smaller displacement, higher tech alternative.

As for mince meat and Miami in one sentence. Not going to happen. For starters HSV have shown no inclination to move far from a donor engine and spec so the number you see it pumping out are about it. Miami is controlled by Prodrive and is detuned to the point of being ridiculous. Miami isn't the limiting issue in Falcon. Falcon is.!

StealthAu · 23-09-2011, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Can't help but wonder how much power does a family car REALLY need?

More then the oppositions.

graham7773 · 23-09-2011, 05:45 PM

I have seen a couple of 6 liter Commodores running round, what are they? Excuse my ignorance re things GM

jpd80 · 23-09-2011, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I'd like to see that pass Euro V.

And besides, Ford still have the 5.8 litre Coyote to play with.

There is no 5.8 Coyote, just 5.0 and 6.2 - that's it, no others planned......

US Tier 2 Bin 5 exceed the limits set by euro 5 and euro 6 so current US OEM engines for road use will comply..

mik · 23-09-2011, 07:07 PM

the lsa to me does`nt look better than the miami, bigger yes, not better.

BHDOGS · 23-09-2011, 07:22 PM

A thousand years

Seduce XR6 · 23-09-2011, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Not too much.

But you can never have too much torque

Oh yes you can as it is the Torque & how soon in the rev range it comes on that is giving FPV all sorts of trouble as in traction so however would they be able to cope with more lol

Only way I see is to change the torque curve & or make Falcon AWD

boris · 23-09-2011, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

There is no 5.8 Coyote, just 5.0 and 6.2 - that's it, no others planned......

US Tier 2 Bin 5 exceed the limits set by euro 5 and euro 6 so current US OEM engines for road use will comply..

6.2 isn't coyote it's boss, and there was a 5.8 boss option just not in production.

AMGC63 · 23-09-2011, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boris

6.2 isn't coyote it's boss, and there was a 5.8 boss option just not in production.

Coyote is a Boss...

jpd80 · 23-09-2011, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boris

6.2 isn't coyote it's boss, and there was a 5.8 boss option just not in production.

No, I never said the 6.2 was a Coyote.

That 5.8 4V was part of the "Hurricane" development program which was scrapped and then revived with the 6.2 2V Boss.
There was a 5.9 Mod motor developed as an alternative during development but it didn't deliver on power and torque
requirements compared to the 6.2 2V.

Ford management actually wanted a large capacity pushrod engine, like the racing FR9 and had to be convinced
of the merits of using OHC in the 6.2 before they would sign off on the revived project.....

Bossxr8 · 23-09-2011, 09:02 PM

This thread reminds me of this experimental engine Ford were using in a Mustang drag car a few years ago to test a certain type of new engine architecture. Looking at the pics now, is it a Coyote or a Boss 6.2? I'd say its a 6.2, or maybe its the mythical 777 version of the Boss 6.2, 7 litres, 7000rpm, 700hp.

FPT · 24-09-2011, 10:33 PM

Yeah, that is 777, derived from the 6.2 Boss, which was supposed to be named Hurricane before Katrina struck.

Jpd80, it was a 5.8 (not 5.9) litre version, all-alloy quadcam that was binned.

Not particularly worried about LSA, Boss 5.0 has it covered.

jpd80 · 25-09-2011, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XW-221

Yeah, that is 777, derived from the 6.2 Boss, which was supposed to be named Hurricane before Katrina struck.

Jpd80, it was a 5.8 (not 5.9) litre version, all-alloy quadcam that was binned.

Not particularly worried about LSA, Boss 5.0 has it covered.

With the development program, there were two distinct groups:
1) Hurricane with 6.2 2v/5.8 DOHC
2) Revised Mod Motor design - 5.0 and 5.9 litre

The "Moddists" believed that evolution of their 4.6/5.4 to 5.0/5.9 could cover all of Ford's needs
where as the Hurricane team felt that a V8 family spanning 5.4 to 7.0 litres would cover Ford's needs better.

There was a lot of internal competition between the two engine groups, an experimental 5.9 "Coyote" and a
5.4 Hurricane were both looked at and tested on engine simulation software and early prototypes but that was
when Ford discovered that the "sweet spot" for capacity/bore/stroke that gave the best balance of power, torque and
economy was found to be with two engines, the 5.0 coyote and the 6.2 Boss - both engineered to suit their given roles
and both having lots of reserve for serious power development. The 6.2 2V heads flow like sewer pipes so the 4V heads
were deemed unnecessary for the expected power levels in trucks. Ford's top brass even wanted engineers to consider
using a pushrod version to keep development costs down but luckily cam timing and cylinder head requirements won out...

Remember too that there has been a lot of water under the bridge with economic problems and grave concerns
about climate control, fuel economy and the need to downsize and electrify vehicles. I think this made Ford think twice
about what V8 engines it wanted in trucks and cars, sharpened their attention on the Ecoboost V6 engine too...

Hope this answers questions without raising more...

Tuck'n'Torque · 25-09-2011, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graham7773

I have seen a couple of 6 liter Commodores running round, what are they? Excuse my ignorance re things GM

They'd be the LS2 and the HSVs run a 6.2 LS3.

I still find it funny that that GM have had the LSA sitting there for possible use for years now with Holden fans begging for it be used and its Ford that come out with a blown 8 first. Holden havn't bothered to put out a competitor for the XR6T/F6 and now they need to play catch up with the 8s as well and they've had a motor sitting there for years. Only problem is if an LSA powered Commy does come out it'd be for W427 money.

Resurrection · 02-08-2012, 12:56 AM

Anybody have any recent news about LSA powered HSVs?

2011G6E · 02-08-2012, 01:21 AM

Given that the biggest selling car in Oz is the Mazda 3, shouldn't the big two be looking elsewhere to develop profitable cars than pouring useless millions into a horsepower race with (sorry) V8's whose time (sorry again) has been and gone in the real world?

Spending up big to cater to a small number of enthusiasts while subsidising it by not spending the money on making the volume sellers better isn't a smart thing to do when every man and his dog is wondering about what future (if any) they have in the country...

OzJavelin · 02-08-2012, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Given that the biggest selling car in Oz is the Mazda 3, shouldn't the big two be looking elsewhere to develop profitable cars than pouring useless millions into a horsepower race with (sorry) V8's whose time (sorry again) has been and gone in the real world?

Spending up big to cater to a small number of enthusiasts while subsidising it by not spending the money on making the volume sellers better isn't a smart thing to do when every man and his dog is wondering about what future (if any) they have in the country...

Meh .. I can understand the logic, but lets make hay while the sun still shines. Let the Commodore and Falcon go out with a bang rather than a whimper. There will be plenty of time for GM and Ford to flood the market with imported boring cars later ..