Interesting article about imports & costs.

[2011G6E]

http://yahoo.carsales.com.au/news/20...ore-here-27452

Not a bad article...it doesn't go into detail about our "unique differences" to other car markets, but they would obviously be our singular obsession with forcing everyone to drive right hand drive cars unless they're old ones, and some other unique-to-Oz ADR requirements.

There is another interesting point...how many people, given the choice of buying one of those supposedly "bare bones" BMW or Mercedes sedan fore the price of an ordinary Falcon or Commodore, would go for it? What Merc and BMW call "basic" would have safety and comfort levels beyond most of what is available in Australia in basic models, or at least equal them. Go to Germany and you see cars being used as Taxis that here would be getting driven by the CEO of a company.

Until motorists here are given the free choice of cars from where ever they want as motorists in every other country are allowed to, unrestricted by unique ADR's and panic about which side the steering wheel is on (requiring special models to be built for Australia, increasing costs artificially), we will be forever spoon fed whatever the factories here spit out, knowing that they have a captive market, supported by the government to keep them artificially in a position of strength against the big bad world outside our borders.

[new2ford]

You're twisting what the article says and introducing a furphy (right-hand drive) that it doesn't mention. BMW and Merc specify their Australian cars for a particular market niche. If they downgraded the specification they wouldn't sell them - just market strategy, they aren't being "forced".

As for RHD, all manufacturers are geared up for that at no extra cost. If you look at the RHD countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dr...s_historic.svg

you'll see at least three major automobile markets there, Japan, India and UK (with south-east Asia emerging).

Have you ever driven a vehicle with opposite-side steering to the country's standard and experienced how dangerous it is to overtake? That might change your tune.

[Jim Goose]

I cant see how having LHD cars inflates the price of a car as opposed to making a car RHD??!?

A standard needs to be set and Australia chose RHD, just like our mother country.... England. There are PLENTY of countries around the world which have RHD cars, we are not unique in the world.

A LHD drive car is dangerous as new2ford said, when it comes to overtaking.
You cant see up the road safely as your sitting on the wrong side.
Spoke to the owner of a LHD Mustang once at a car show and said the 120km was not fun when it came to ovetaking.
Not to mention its suspension set up needs to be set up to drive on the lefthand side of the road due the camber of the road slopeing the opposite way.

[2011G6E]

The "Unique to Australia" part is where the left or right hand drive, unique ADR's, and other points comes in. They don't expand on it, but that's one big cost, and one reason that kept a lot of imports out of the country over the decades until they expensively re-engineeered for our requirements.
The worry about left hand drive cars probably comes about because we've had a history of simply not being allowed to drive LHD cars here...no other country has a problem with cars of different drives sharing the road together.

But putting that aside and getting back to the point of the article, I still wonder what the buyers here would do it faced with "basic" Beemers and Mercs if available for the price of a Falcon or Commodore....? Would they jump ship?

[Hally]

I think what the article does not portray is the European car makers thoughts on how they want to be perceived in the Australian market.

My guess would be Merc, BMW, Audi (and increasingly VW) want to be seen as a luxury or halo brand. That is why they spec their imports so high compared to the home market 'stripped out' specials.

In reposne to your question about would Australian's buy base level BMW's/Mercs compared to our Aussie cars for the same price? I don't think they would. They are small, underpowered and quite dull when the gadgets are not included.

[new2ford]

Spot on Hally. And there's more profit to be made in the high spec sector.

[gtxb67]

it is true that there is no competition to ford and holden in the big car class, but if there was it would be unfair. the local product will only appeal to 2 countries, while the imported product appeals to many. the unit price of building an engineered merc to a fabricated ford is probably very similar because the more you make, the cheaper they get

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Hally

In reposne to your question about would Australian's buy base level BMW's/Mercs compared to our Aussie cars for the same price? I don't think they would. They are small, underpowered and quite dull when the gadgets are not included.

how many australian car buyers are brand snobs (or elitist if you prefer)?

[Hally]

My personal thoughts are that most Australians have a bit of brand snobbery in them. However, for these same people the reality of life means that they will more often and not go for the value proposition because that is what makes financial sense long term.

I feel that in 3 - 4 years we are going to see a big shift in attitudes to second hand cars, especially Euro's that have DSG gearboxes, small but technologically advance motors etc. The reason I feel this way people will not be able to afford to repair them when out of warranty. Some of the prices you hear people having to pay for replacement parts and general servicing on these makes is unreal. This forum bags the stuffing out of people who make value based, but dull motoring choices (mainly Camry drivers) but the practical side of me fully understands it.

[JamesR]

not sure if anyone has seen this before, but its quite interesting.
it compares car prices around the world to Aus prices.

http://blog.privatefleet.com.au/car-comparison-data/

[trippytaka]

Originally Posted by new2ford

You're twisting what the article says and introducing a furphy (right-hand drive) that it doesn't mention. BMW and Merc specify their Australian cars for a particular market niche. If they downgraded the specification they wouldn't sell them - just market strategy, they aren't being "forced".

As for RHD, all manufacturers are geared up for that at no extra cost. If you look at the RHD countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dr...s_historic.svg

you'll see at least three major automobile markets there, Japan, India and UK (with south-east Asia emerging).

Have you ever driven a vehicle with opposite-side steering to the country's standard and experienced how dangerous it is to overtake? That might change your tune.

Seeing on-coming traffic? Highly over rated :P

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

how many australian car buyers are brand snobs (or elitist if you prefer)?

heaps...as the country becomes more affluent (although some leaner years ahead) they look else where.

I made this comment a while back from what I see around me it is no longer "cool" or "in" to have a luxo aussie car. People seem to thing a base spec Euro holds more cred.

I have also noticed than managers of local businesses do the same thing, but 10 years ago it was the norm to have calais/ghia's for company cars.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

how many australian car buyers are brand snobs (or elitist if you prefer)?

You ask this question on a forum where the letters F O R & D and G & T are worshipped by many as the true messiah and the letters H O L D E & N will define any vehicle regardless of capability as utter rubbish?

Australians are arguably the worst brands snobs in the world. Our team is good all others are bad regardless of whether our team is Ford, Holden, Toyota, Nissan......whatever.....

The Commadore/Falcon war is echoed in the Cruiser/Patrol war or the Hilux/Navara war or the various ricer factions.

So the quick answer to your question is "Most".......

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Hally

My personal thoughts are that most Australians have a bit of brand snobbery in them. However, for these same people the reality of life means that they will more often and not go for the value proposition because that is what makes financial sense long term.

I feel that in 3 - 4 years we are going to see a big shift in attitudes to second hand cars, especially Euro's that have DSG gearboxes, small but technologically advance motors etc. The reason I feel this way people will not be able to afford to repair them when out of warranty. Some of the prices you hear people having to pay for replacement parts and general servicing on these makes is unreal. This forum bags the stuffing out of people who make value based, but dull motoring choices (mainly Camry drivers) but the practical side of me fully understands it.

I pity anyone who buys a VW out of warranty and has a DSG gearbox fail, which is a common things on VW's even within the warranty period. They are something like 10g to replace.

[69Mach1]

Intersting article but I am surprised Mr Scott would feel the need to defend their prices. Last time I checked the luxury brands were all growing well, so they are obviously doing something right. Why does he have to justify the prices when people a buying them? I am sure they spend a lot of time positioning themselves in the local market with their product specification, mix and pricing to deliver them the best possible result. I mean for a given profit it is much better to sell lower volumes at higher price rather than the opposite. Less work for the same money.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I pity anyone who buys a VW out of warranty and has a DSG gearbox fail, which is a common things on VW's even within the warranty period. They are something like 10g to replace.

In the European quality/reliability surveys VWs sit about middle rank, around Ford level - the issues are well known. Re Australian brand snobbery, when that reliability survey came out here a couple of years ago the VW issue was pinpointed via the service/warranty industry but apparently owners surveyed would not 'fess up to having problems with their VWs out of "pride"!

Our Ford dealer is also the VW dealer and the service manager told me that, while VWs are better built than Fords, when issues came up (which they do) the costs are phenomenal compared to Ford, not to mention the waits for overseas parts. Out of the VAG stable, Skoda is recommended by all as the one to go for on reliability and avoiding these ongoing costs.

[350125GO]

Originally Posted by Polyal

heaps...as the country becomes more affluent (although some leaner years ahead) they look else where.

I made this comment a while back from what I see around me it is no longer "cool" or "in" to have a luxo aussie car. People seem to thing a base spec Euro holds more cred.

I have also noticed than managers of local businesses do the same thing, but 10 years ago it was the norm to have calais/ghia's for company cars.

People buy European brands because of their "luxurious" image. Even if it is a pov pack A4 or 3 series. Hell even VW ride this wave, even if the Golf is the Commodore of Europe.

Give me a HSV Grange over a ****** 525 any day.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I pity anyone who buys a VW out of warranty and has a DSG gearbox fail, which is a common things on VW's even within the warranty period. They are something like 10g to replace.

Gertrag supplies DSG boxes to VW and Ford.......

[Bossxr8]

And i'll bet the Ford price to fix is a hell of a lot lower than VW's.

VW position themselves at a premium level, including the cost of repairs, even though there isn't much premium about VW's at all. They are even called Volkswagen, german for "people's car". I laugh at people who buy VW's and thing they are driving something special cause its European.

[RAREV8]

Originally Posted by Hally

I think what the article does not portray is the European car makers thoughts on how they want to be perceived in the Australian market.

My guess would be Merc, BMW, Audi (and increasingly VW) want to be seen as a luxury or halo brand. That is why they spec their imports so high compared to the home market 'stripped out' specials.

In reposne to your question about would Australian's buy base level BMW's/Mercs compared to our Aussie cars for the same price? I don't think they would. They are small, underpowered and quite dull when the gadgets are not included.

Driven many have you??

Sadly, the opposite is often true- many of the small "underpowered" motors in the Euro offerings will simply wipe the floor with our large capacity offerings....and return a far superior economy too.
I drive a hell of a lot of Euro cars in my line of work- mainly Merc, Audi ,Bimmers etc but had to drive a late model VE SS ute- big 8 of course but power? not much- I have to say I was a little disappointed.

The force fed Euro donks take a little getting used to- the power delivery is different to a large displacement motor- my biggest gripe is the CVT boxes...simply awful to drive.
The DSG boxes are nothing short of brilliant and very rarely do they get replaced when repair is usually quite possible.

Having said this, I think that our local offerings offer reasonable value, great towing ability and are pretty reliable. There is a place for a mix of cars but I hope our local manufacturers don't get too complacent- the competition is good and the numbers on our roads are increasing daily.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Have you ever driven a vehicle with opposite-side steering to the country's standard and experienced how dangerous it is to overtake? That might change your tune.

Lets cut the crap here, get down to the real business.


Have you tried going through the Maccas drivethrough in a LHD car? THE HORROR!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

And i'll bet the Ford price to fix is a hell of a lot lower than VW's.

VW position themselves at a premium level, including the cost of repairs, even though there isn't much premium about VW's at all. They are even called Volkswagen, german for "people's car". I laugh at people who buy VW's and thing they are driving something special cause its European.

That's what good spin can do. VW is the Ford/GM of Germany and nothing more. Its funny when you stick your head in a base model and see how basic they look.

A recent reliability survey in the states had VW down the lower end of the scale. Mind you Ford dropped a bit in this survey as well.

Edit: Found the Article

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...028-1mn7b.html

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

how many australian car buyers are brand snobs (or elitist if you prefer)?

But if the base spec BMW's had Ford/Holden levels of equipment and were sold at that price, would they be a premium brand that people would bother to be snobbish about anymore?

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

And i'll bet the Ford price to fix is a hell of a lot lower than VW's.

VW position themselves at a premium level, including the cost of repairs, even though there isn't much premium about VW's at all. They are even called Volkswagen, german for "people's car". I laugh at people who buy VW's and thing they are driving something special cause its European.

I don't know...I'd hate the ZF gearbox in our G6E to blow up the day after the warrante runs out...

[tranquilized]

The size or our market is by far the biggest difference between Australia and the US/Europe.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of it all is this;

The local management and marketing team - everyone who works in BMW's head office in Mulgrave for example - their wages and activities are covered by car sales.

Technical support - all dealership mechanics are constantly trained on the new models/technologies - all paid for from car sales.

Warranty support, spare parts inventory, advertising, marketing, transportation... the list goes on of expenses that all must be covered by car sales - your not just paying for the raw materials.

But of course with a market as tiny as Australias, more must be added to the sale price of each car to cover the companies operations.

As for the specification level; imported cars are going to be expensive here no matter what the specification. Luxury items cost the manufacturer very little - the profit margin on a G6E is a lot more than an XT for example. So all the luxury stuff is pretty much thrown in to help justify the high prices here in Australia - prices that wouldn't change no matter how the car is specced.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

The size or our market is by far the biggest difference between Australia and the US/Europe.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of it all is this;

The local management and marketing team - everyone who works in BMW's head office in Mulgrave for example - their wages and activities are covered by car sales.

Technical support - all dealership mechanics are constantly trained on the new models/technologies - all paid for from car sales.

Warranty support, spare parts inventory, advertising, marketing, transportation... the list goes on of expenses that all must be covered by car sales - your not just paying for the raw materials.

But of course with a market as tiny as Australias, more must be added to the sale price of each car to cover the companies operations.

As for the specification level; imported cars are going to be expensive here no matter what the specification. Luxury items cost the manufacturer very little - the profit margin on a G6E is a lot more than an XT for example. So all the luxury stuff is pretty much thrown in to help justify the high prices here in Australia - prices that wouldn't change no matter how the car is specced.

Okay I'll correct you based on my knowledge of M Benz N.Z. operations.

Local management yes, marketing No - its almost always a generic international marketing push and nothing much original is done locally.

There is very little training on new models, its certainly not anywhere near the ballpark of constant as you put it. What few technical staff they have are directed by head office German tech's whenever there's something remotely difficult to fix.

Vehicles carry an international warranty, spare parts prices are absolutly astronomical to cover the holding costs about 10 times over, and servicing costs are also usually 2 or 3 times what you'd pay for a "normal" car.

Look, there's no way to sugar coat this for you, they really are bending you over, its as simple as that.

Think about it, even if you buy into all their PR B.S. about small market this and local support that, given the dramatic rise in the $A over the last year, exactly what price reductions do you see in imported German cars, that's right, nothing meaningful.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Technical support - all dealership mechanics are constantly trained on the new models/technologies - all paid for from car sales.

No way in hell, I used to work as an apprentice in a dealership and the closest we got to training was a new workshop manual and in the case of hybrid cars, an insulated tool-kit.