Box GT demand up?

[Reefer]

Just having a quick squiz through AMCS website and notice a distinct lack of XR XT XW XY GT's for sale at the moment. A few modified cars but nothing like what there was 12 months ago.

Is demand on the rise again?

[SSD-85]

More like people have given up trying to sell them for over 100k. Since no one wants to pay that anymore. Or theres no buyers in that ridiculous price range.

[hankscorpio]

I think because the musclecar market has pulled back a fair bit since the 2007 peak, many potential sellers are holding off selling now in the hope that they will be able to get more $$ in the future.

The numbers of advertised cars on AMCS has been steadily dropping over the last few years and while there are still a handful of top notch/unique cars selling for big $$, the remainder of the market is very stagnant.

I think the demand is still there, but in general people aren't willing to pay big $$ for the cars. I've seen many cars that are advertised for many months and years at a time now which indicates many sellers are still unrealistic with their pricing.

[Stefan]

Well, a car is worth what the seller is willing to accept...

[Nikked]

I'd say that the generation that grew up when the XR-XY's were around have all bought there garage trophies, and the next generation will be buying the other series of cars...

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Well, a car is worth what the seller is willing to accept...

Exactly right. And no seller ever thinks about that....

"Oh my god its worth a hundred grand!!! Uh-huh!

Ah wrong sunshine. The harsh reality hits when they cant sell.

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Well, a car is worth what the seller is willing to accept...

Alternatively it's only worth what someone will pay for the car, on any given day.

[Blue Roo]

I think a lot of the cashed up baby boomers got their fingers burnt with an over heated muscle cars market and the GFC, and are hanging on to them. Hoping the market will bounce back to sell the cars and recoup their lossess.

[Scooter]

I personally think that the money is not there to be spent like it once was, and that people are being cautious in these uncertain times with what lies ahead with these elections? That is the feeling I get out here in the West anyway. And it is not just the older cars, the EB and EL GTs and T series are not selling and there are not as many for sale as before either.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Burnout

Alternatively it's only worth what someone will pay for the car, on any given day.

Nope, Value = actual sale price.

How do Real Estate agents value property? Sale price.

It takes two to determine a value, a buyer willing to pay a price and a seller willing to accept the offer, that price is the value of the car.

There are a few XC Cobras for sale, I love them, all priced around $100K, I'm willing to pay $50K but no-one is willing to accept my offer, they might if I offer $90K. What's an XC Cobra worth? $50K or around $90K?

[mcnews]

When you look at the unbelievable yank iron you can get for 50k........

[GTPete]

I dont think box car demand has ever wained, pre GFC they were heading beyond 100k as a minimum, back then cash was easier to get even if it was borrowed.

Now mid/post GFC the sale price has dropped but cash is harder to obtain and borrowing money is more difficult for many who would like to own a classic.

The gap between available cash and the sale price to own a box car is still relatively the same.
Unfortunately they are still out of reach for many. Some get bitter about it, others beg, borrow or steel to own one and some couldnt care less.
Take your pick on where you stand but you cant ignore the laws of supply and demand especially when it comes to a collectible limited run product that has such a huge following.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by mcnews

When you look at the unbelievable yank iron you can get for 50k........

mustangs from 20k...

[BroncosXR8]

Try finding an XA GT!

There's a decent looking reasonably priced one in Darwin, a wreck for almost the same price and then it shoots upto 80k plus for an RPO or coupe in good condition...

FML

Had a serious think about the Darwin one though

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by mcnews

When you look at the unbelievable yank iron you can get for 50k........

The US cars are certainly cheaper. But for me I've always wanted an XY GT and loved the XA GT Coupes since I was 12 years old. There is no point buying a Dodge Charger, Comaro or Mustang or anything else if all you've ever wanted is a Falcon GT.

If I only want a 70s muscle car with a V8 then sure the US cars are much better value.

[XBROO]

Yep when ever I pull up in my XBGT coupe, it gets more on lookers then the 100 odd mustang that are there. When I first got my coupe 20 odd years a go, my mates and I used to drool when we saw a mustang. And because of this no one wanted our cars, so hardly anybody looked after them. I got my coupe from a devorce settlement, he had a mach 1 and the coupe, he had to sell one. At the time the mach 1 was more desirable so he keeped that, don't know about now.

Look to me the market has gone down, but will never drop to the prices before the boom. I would of been flat out getting 18k to 20k before the boom. I don't think we'll see them prices again.

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Nope, Value = actual sale price.

How do Real Estate agents value property? Sale price.

It takes two to determine a value, a buyer willing to pay a price and a seller willing to accept the offer, that price is the value of the car.

There are a few XC Cobras for sale, I love them, all priced around $100K, I'm willing to pay $50K but no-one is willing to accept my offer, they might if I offer $90K. What's an XC Cobra worth? $50K or around $90K?

A fully restored Cobra 5.8 4-Speed sold early this year for $145k.

Not a story through a mates cousins brothers next door neighbors dog.... Real story that can be verified if it was ever necessary.

FYI - Most I've heard of a Cobra being paid for in a long time - because I can't remember EVER a time where an XC Cobra has been sold for more than an XY GT (in general of course).

[RedHotGT]

My take on the market:

There are plenty of very good cars out there for those with a budget in mind.

The difficulty for some of the sellers, is like someone mentioned earlier above. A lot of the cars were bought during the boom, as it was on it's way up. People got caught up in the hype and didn't want to miss out on the investment and the opportunity. But of course, the market was highly inflated and came back to reality very quickly.

You could probably argue that the market is still inflated - but what market isn't when there are so many people with vested interests.

Also - phases (pardon the pun) change and people change what they are interested in based on their budget, their personal situation, etc.

Just like someone mentioned earlier - there was a time where nobody wanted XA/XB/XC coupes - and they were super cheap. That time has passed. There are cars like that now also - you just gotta work out what they are.

To me - there are a few types of buyers out there. BUYERS - not dreamers.

1) Buyers who want what they want - and will get it at all costs. Pay top dollar for the right car, and pay good money for work to be done to it ensuring the car reaches their high standard. They buy the cars that people remember when telling stories.

2) Buyers who want something - just to be in it. Have a budget to work with, and don't have a badge/body style stuck in their head. Would consider 3-5 types of cars and are not fixed on anything in particular - so long as they are pretty good overall.

3) Buyers who are over-researched and unrealistic - They look at the cars expecting a concourse show winner at the bargain basement price. They believe that because THEY are buying, that they should get what they want, how they want it, but don't want to pay the price asked for the car. They pick on the car and try to devalue with their 'expert knowledge' (ie: Thats the wrong aerial - this car must be a mock up, etc)

4) Buyers who take their time - They wait for the right car to pop up. They don't have to rush out and buy the first one that comes up - even if it looks like the car of their dreams. Usually happy to pay a fair price, sometimes more than others would consider, to secure a good/great car.

5) Buyers who do not meet ANY of the above criteria - sometimes there are surprises and you'll have a buyer that you don't expect. They just come from nowhere, buy the car, and don't give you headaches.

Sure - there are other types of buyers, but these above examples are the ones that I reckon exist mostly.... And I say this without any single person in mind, or any single car in mind.

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by mcnews

When you look at the unbelievable yank iron you can get for 50k........

Just dont strip the car of its paint to reveal what a US restoration entails

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by RedHotGT

My take on the market:

There are plenty of very good cars out there for those with a budget in mind.

The difficulty for some of the sellers, is like someone mentioned earlier above. A lot of the cars were bought during the boom, as it was on it's way up. People got caught up in the hype and didn't want to miss out on the investment and the opportunity.

Many ,many used equity in their homes to fund these toys
But when the bubble burst, house prices went down,or sales wernt as fluent and those using they equity got caught out,when they couldnt sell their house to clear their over spent debt
Free cash,isnt there anymore and due to the world issues, many arent keen to borrow huge amounts on such so called investments
Try goin to a bank asking for 100 large for a 40 year old car .....
Got more chance of winning the lotto without a ticket

[2011G6E]

Many many people got stung badly buying at the peak...as said above, even morgaging their homes to buy into it hoping for prices to rise and rise (because we all know, prices never fall, do they...) and now they're stuck with something that A: they can never recoup the cost of, and B: if they do try to sell, will have to bite a large slice of reality biscuit and ask half what the paid...maybe down to a quarter what they paid, which would never pay off the loans.

They're probably desperately hanging on waiting for the prices to boom again, but people won't be that silly twice.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Many many people got stung badly buying at the peak......maybe down to a quarter what they paid, which would never pay off the loans.

I think this gets a little overdone, a fair few would loose money no doubt, very few if any would loose 75% of their investment. Some Phase 3 buyers would loose big, but how many cars really sold for around a mill. A couple, maybe 3?

[eyes87]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Nope, Value = actual sale price.

How do Real Estate agents value property? Sale price.

It takes two to determine a value, a buyer willing to pay a price and a seller willing to accept the offer, that price is the value of the car.

There are a few XC Cobras for sale, I love them, all priced around $100K, I'm willing to pay $50K but no-one is willing to accept my offer, they might if I offer $90K. What's an XC Cobra worth? $50K or around $90K?

Originally Posted by Poorboy_racer

Surprised no one has posted this:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-BA-C...&_qi=RTM773815

Only partially right.
If every single buyer is only willing to pay 50k for said XC cobra. But the seller still wants 100k what does that make the car worth? Still 100? Nope. 50k.
Something is only worth what the buyer will pay.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by eyes87

Only partially right.
If every single buyer is only willing to pay 50k for said XC cobra. But the seller still wants 100k what does that make the car worth? Still 100? Nope. 50k.
Something is only worth what the buyer will pay.

I disagree. The value is the sale price full stop.

You can't make someone sell a car, nor can you make someone buy one. There are dreamers at both ends of the spectrum. Neither seller or buyer can dictate the value. When the buyer and seller agree on a number and the money changes hands that is the value of the car. Common sense really.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Stefan

I disagree. The value is the sale price full stop.

You can't make someone sell , nor can you make someone buy . There are dreamers at both ends of the spectrum. Neither seller or buyer can dictate the value. When the buyer and seller agree on a number and the money changes hands that is the value . Common sense really.

Same as real estate, hey
Yet theres some serious dreamers out there in their over valued properties
My neighbour wants 500K for her place,yet nothin over 350K is selling in the area,but is darn adement she wants(morso needs ) that sale price
Its not different for cars,over inflating things isnt that why the world slipped into the GFC ???

[XBROO]

My car only owes me 8k,(bought it for 5.5K over 20 years ago had an engine rebuild, mags, but haven't included rego) so if I sell it for more then 8k I'll be making a profit. Only because I've always been into these cars. And I haven't just jump on the band wagon because they went up in price and evreybody thinks they are cool. For a while I used to joke with my mates and say I couldn't afford to buy my old ford. There was a time when prices were high I did concider selling as I thought I was going to loose my job. But then I realized I couldn't part with it, so like my wife said it's not worth nothing because I won't sell it. So I guess it's value is $0.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Same as real estate, hey
Yet theres some serious dreamers out there in their over valued properties
My neighbour wants 500K for her place,yet nothin over 350K is selling in the area,but is darn adement she wants(morso needs ) that sale price
Its not different for cars,over inflating things isnt that why the world slipped into the GFC ???

Yeah, property was crazy too, I remember a mate buying properties and "selling" them for a profit before he settled. He use to negotiate that he could do some external work in the settlement period, then do a backyard blitz and sell it.

[aussie muscle]

i think the GFC has scared away the 'investors', but enthusiasts are still in the market.
while the 700,000 phase 3s have come down in price the genuine GTs haven't.

i couldn't justify the cost of a xa-xc coupe, so i bought a fairlane from that era.

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

i think the GFC has scared away the 'investors', but enthusiasts are still in the market.
while the 700,000 phase 3s have come down in price the genuine GTs haven't.

i couldn't justify the cost of a xa-xc coupe, so i bought a fairlane from that era.

All the models of GTs went soaring at the same time and scale as the PH3... The going rate for an XY GT was $200-$250k for a period there - and same goes for everything else lower in the food chain. Now $100k will buy you a very good XY GT - and much less if you want to buy a fixer...

Someone mentioned above about real estate and people using equity or remortgaging their house to get their hands on all that money... that was how I understood most people entering the big dollar market...

Since then, real estate haulted and in some cases fallen, meaning that their idea that the house would 'absorb' the cost of their car 'investment' simply hasn't happened... So instead of owning a $600k-$800k with a $300k-$400k mortgage... today they have a $500k-$700k house with a $500k-$700k mortgage, and a car that they 'thought' was worth $200k-$300k+ (and was going to INCREASE in value) which in reality is worth probably half of that today - and a much smaller pool of buyers...

So - until the real estate has another big spike in value (unlikely any time soon) then the cars will stay or fall further than they are today....

Good time to buy though... for houses or cars - if you've got the CASH... but I never borrow money for toys.... no point paying interest on something that is parked.............

[XBROO]

Yep a lot of silly people got caught up in the hype, and a lot of snakes came out of the rocks they were hiding under. Now the snakes are laughing and the silly people have more debt then what there assets are worth.