D-Day for Holden tomorrow

[BroadyFord]

Workers at Holden will tomorrow vote on a new EBA agreement which will determine (among other things) whether or not the company remains a manufacturer in Australia.

The new EBA is aimed at shoring up Holden's local manufacturing operations - which are running at an unsustainable loss - through approximately $15 million in annual savings.

Importantly, Holden have confirmed that if workers vote "no", then they will be forced to cease manufacturing in Australia in 2016/17, regardless of additional government funding. Furthermore, a decision to quit manufacturing would likely result in an end to the entire car industry given that the supply base would be sub-scale and too costly to supply the sole remaining manufacturer, Toyota.

Hence, I thought it would be appropriate to start a thread which will deliver the verdict and facilitate the inevitable postmortem discussion.

[Guzz226]

Given how ****ed Holden were that their VF launch was spolit by Ford annoucing the end of local manufacturing, isn't this ironic?

Holden could now be seen to taking the wind out of Ford's sails knowing that what they had already planned and announced.

[malazn mafia]

And tomorrow is Ford Vision Day: Go Further or whatever they are calling it. Imagine if the closure announcement takes place during the Ford show...

[Nikked]

So...


Holden have all-but put the blame on its workers for its existence...

Brand rivalry aside, that's disgusting.

[TC200six]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

And tomorrow is Ford Vision Day: Go Further or whatever they are calling it. Imagine if the closure announcement takes place during the Ford show...

What ever the outcome, a Holden announcement always overshadows anything Ford does on the same day.

[Maka]

I just hope for the workers sake they are not getting taken for a ride whether the vote is yes or no, i'm worried it's a charade, Holden going through the motions when they know the enevitable is on the horizon.

cheers, Maka

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Nikked

So...


Holden have all-but put the blame on its workers for its existence...

Brand rivalry aside, that's disgusting.

I don't think Holden is necessarily the bad guy here. It's not their fault they can't produce cars for pennies like the foreign companies, but at least they are trying to stay viable (whether it's in vain, who knows).

[EDManual]

as if a tiny $15 million makes any difference to the situation they are in! Putting the blame on the workers is rediculous!

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by EDManual

as if a tiny $15 million makes any difference to the situation they are in! Putting the blame on the workers is rediculous!

not to mention the naming rights sponsorship of just about everything on TV now...and the "buy-us-a-championship" thing they are doing at the moment...


Mind you, its a shame such things overshadow the VF...

[kevino]

With the election campaign on is it a great chance for Holden/GM to ratchet pressure onto the incoming liberal Govt to promise extra funding?
I thought 15 million saved by the workers is not big ticket enough to save Holden making cars in Oz.

[BHDOGS]

Ive talked to a few workers there all voting yes there biggest fear is the Victorian guys saying no and sinking the whole thing they reckon the yes vote will Get up but won't know the full outcome till end of week

[Joe5619]

I have more respect for a company that is fighting bloody hard to stay here, then one that just walked away with no fight at all!!

Heres hoping we get a "YES" & holden can build from here!!

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Nikked

not to mention the naming rights sponsorship of just about everything on TV now...and the "buy-us-a-championship" thing they are doing at the moment...


Mind you, its a shame such things overshadow the VF...

You just don’t get how a big company works!!! Holden is trying to reduce the cost of how much it costs to build a car, & NOT the cost of their A&P spend. There is a HUGE difference between the two & if you don’t get that, you'll never understand it.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I have more respect for a company that is fighting bloody hard to stay here, then one that just walked away with no fight at all!!

Heres hoping we get a "YES" & holden can build from here!!

I have more respect for a company that knows it's over when it's over.

A company that tells it like it is.

A company that does not hold the tax payer to ransom.

A company that knows when to make changes to ensure it can continue globally without putting their handout and declaring bankruptcy.

Yes. That's the company that I respect.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

I have more respect for a company that knows it's over when it's over.

A company that tells it like it is.
A company that does not hold the tax payer to ransom.

A company that knows when to make changes to ensure it can continue globally without putting their handout and declaring bankruptcy.

Yes. That's the company that I respect.

Hang on, Holden is yelling you how it is, but people on here don’t like it!!! It is disgusting to them!!

I guess as an Australian, I like things to be built there.. Call me dumb!!

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Hang on, Holden is yelling you how it is, but people on here don’t like it!!! It is disgusting to them!!

Oh C'mon! GM has already made the decision to pull out. If you believe that they are here until 2022, then you best go and check out LS1.com.au

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Hang on, Holden is yelling you how it is, but people on here don’t like it!!! It is disgusting to them!!

I guess as an Australian, I like things to be built there.. Call me dumb!!

No one is calling you dumb. And yes, I would like cars to be made here too.

I don't like the way Holden and GM have carried on for years. They are arrogant, fanciful, and it is finally coming home to roost. Sad for the workers; especially since they think their piddly $15million saving that they are voting on will actually change anything.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

I have more respect for a company that knows it's over when it's over.

A company that tells it like it is.

A company that does not hold the tax payer to ransom.

A company that knows when to make changes to ensure it can continue globally without putting their handout and declaring bankruptcy.

Yes. That's the company that I respect.

And that company is Mitsubishi ? Look where they are now (actually doing better than before)

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Hang on, Holden is telling you how it is, but people on here don’t like it!!! It is disgusting to them!!

I guess as an Australian, I like things to be built there.. Call me dumb!!

They are saying .... as suggested above ..... that if the employees do not take the offer then it is over? That is what they are telling us? Is that not blaming the workers? So they can say, we tried, the employees didn't, so we are closing up shop because of it? I think it would be better to give a 3.5 years of warning and wind down rather than blaming the 'other' party and shutting up shop quicker?

Thats how I am reading all this.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

Oh C'mon! GM has already made the decision to pull out. If you believe that they are here until 2022, then you best go and check out LS1.com.au

I don’t believe that for one second. IF the decision was already made, they'd tell us, they wouldn't put everyone through all this BS for nothing.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

They are saying .... as suggested above ..... that if the employees do not take the offer then it is over? That is what they are telling us? Is that not blaming the workers? So they can say, we tried, the employees didn't, so we are closing up shop because of it? I think it would be better to give a 3.5 years of warning and wind down rather than blaming the 'other' party and shutting up shop quicker?

Thats how I am reading all this.

You would be reading correctly then.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I don’t believe that for one second. IF the decision was already made, they'd tell us, they wouldn't put everyone through all this BS for nothing.

I think I just fell off my chair I was gently rocking

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I don’t believe that for one second. IF the decision was already made, they'd tell us, they wouldn't put everyone through all this BS for nothing.

Oh, welcome to the world of GM.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

I think I just fell off my chair I was gently rocking

Ok then, how long do you think Ford knew before telling us?? If you believe Ford (& I do), it was within 24 hours of making the decision they told everyone.

[Auslandau]

They would have known 100% probably 12 months ago ...... but I would suggest a few years. There would be a lot of discussion between HQ and AU on how it would work. Hell of a lot of stuff to work out.

I would suggest with confidence that GM knows exactly the when, why and how GMH will pull out if they need to and most probably had it planned the same time as FoA

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Ok then, how long do you think Ford knew before telling us?? If you believe Ford (& I do), it was within 24 hours of making the decision they told everyone.

I just fell off my chair too.

They do say that ignorance is bliss.

Do you really think that these decisions are made at a whim? These things take ages. Sometimes I wish I was naive though. It would make me more optimistic rather than pessimistic.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I don’t believe that for one second. IF the decision was already made, they'd tell us, they wouldn't put everyone through all this BS for nothing.

Don't be so naive. Some of the conditions they are trying to force onto their workers by putting a gun to their heads are straight from the bad old days. They are just trying to see whether they can get away with it.

Hopefully they vote it down cause if it gets through it sends a very bad precedent for other companies to follow.


Remember last year when Holden were crowing how great an EBA they had just given their workers, 12 months later and they want to take all that back and also take another bunch of conditions away from them. Great forward planning, and great business ethics. Too bad all this will make no difference as Commodore sales will continue to tank and the factory will be wound up in a few years anyway. It's inevitable.

Just worried they might take Toyota with them, they are investing for the future and may even be building a 3rd car, it would be a real shame if Holden closing shut them down too.

[jpd80]

In September 2011, Ford was not going to do a 2014 Falcon before Bob Carr flew to Shanghai and brokered a deal,
FGII was going to be it until the plant shut down.

From Joe Hindrics comments we can glean that Ford was going to close down ops at the end of 2014 and that
this model is a one off extension - they would have known that for some time, not withstanding approval from USA.
Some of us, including me were hoping for another cost effective extension to comply with Euro 5 to go to 2018.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

I just fell off my chair too.

They do say that ignorance is bliss.

Do you really think that these decisions are made at a whim? These things take ages. Sometimes I wish I was naive though. It would make me more optimistic rather than pessimistic.

I agree they aren’t made on a whim, but until the final "we are closing" is made, then a final decision is not made. Holden would be working with 2 scenarios (And both would have already been costed up). One to stay here & one to leave. To stay here, they need to get a “list” of things done. One thing on that list is employee wages. If they can’t tick everything off this list, then plan B is pulled out & they close. So until they get to a point on this list they can't tick, a final call is stil not made. If you get my thinking.

I'm sure Ford went down the same path. And I’m sure their list could have included similar things, but of course very different things based on what global direction was/is.

We'll never know, but I'd love to know just how close Ford come to committing to manufacturing another model here. Was it a close call or a "never going to happen, your dreaming" call.. To me, it looks like a close call on the Holden side of things.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

I just fell off my chair too.

They do say that ignorance is bliss.

Do you really think that these decisions are made at a whim? These things take ages. Sometimes I wish I was naive though. It would make me more optimistic rather than pessimistic.

I dunno about that... Look at Opel...